Not just another "Daily Driver Quest" thread (HAHA YES IT IS) [Volvo Experts Needed]
 

Okay, Joe Perez's words have finally sunk in (not really, situations just change) and I'm thinking of selling my DD truck (2000 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab V6 4WD) and purchasing a cheap DD car with better mileage and maybe, maybe, maybe also a Miata fun car.

About the cheap DD car with better mileage:

I'm not wanting to take up hypermiling as a hobby. My job pays $0.36/mile when I need to travel. The truck is listed at 15/19 mpg. I'm looking for...let's say 28 mpg highway. 30 mph would be great. 32+ mpg and I'm dancing a jig.

About the cheap DD car:

Back seat is a must. Good cargo room (think: wagon) is preferred. Manual transmission would be appreciated. Outright speed/handling is of no concern, but I'm a human person with feelings and if it doesn't put me to sleep when I drive, all the better.

About the cheap:

$2000 or less so that I can use the remainder from the truck sale to pay off some bills and maybe, maybe, maybe buy a Miata fun car.



So. Ideas I've had (with parenthetical downsides):

Mazda Protege 5 (under $2000 is a stretch)
Subaru Impreza wagon/Forester (scarcity in the South, head gasket issues?)
Civic/Integra/Accord/etc. (no wagons, interference timing belts)
Nissan Maxima (no wagons, mileage is borderline)
Infiniti G20 (no wagons, scarcity)
Honda CR-V (unfun, mileage)

And then there are the Volvos.

I'm very interested in the Volvo wagons, but I know little about them. And I can't seem to pin down a year/model/configuration that I really like.

200 series drive like tractors.
A/C is broken in every 700 series.
No 940/960 wagons seem to have manuals.
850s are FWD.

And other than knowing that the 200 series are completely unfun to drive, I don't know what the later models are like. Are they serious Swedish killjoys that will make me dread driving to work? Do they feel like modern cars? Is the turbo 5 better or worse than the N/A 6? Is the 850 okay even with FWD? Are the automatic transmissions durable and unirritating?

I need answers and advice.

The autos are essentially the same as any similar gear count, similar era trans. A 4speed auto is generally a 4speed auto, regardless of who makes it. Parts can be found at reasonable prices, online mostly, but the real issue is same day parts. An alternator for a Honda Civic is normally in stock; not so much for a volvo.


They were generally well built, but with any 20 year old, $2000 car, prepare for money to be invested. Basic shit like belts, hoses, tires, fluids are likely in need of replacement. Not sure what the volvo market is like where you live, but up here, they're few and far between. Most of them are sitting outside the local volvo shop, in various states of disrepair.



I also laugh at the idea of a volvo brick being a "fuel-efficient" commuter. Of course, a DD truck is a pretty stupid idea (no offense, meant, just the facts). Buy a 2k civic, put another grand into it for safety/reliability, and profit. Get the manual hatch-back, for shit-hauling, and keep the truck for.... whatever the hell people think they need trucks for. Civics aren't baller, but they do the DD thing pretty damn well.

What the hell are you hauling to/from work DAILY to require a wagon/pickup?






OR




Buy a damn 1.8L miata, get 28-30mpg highway, and be a pimp like me. :dealwithit:


Buy it as a daily, then once money is right, make it a race car and buy a different DD car.

Be less of misinformed dick about the truck issue and I'll be more interested in your advice.

Anyone with specific info about Volvos is still welcome to comment.

Now I'm bored and irritated.

HAHAHA okay not true but whatever.

Not really something I asked about, and not really something I generally agree with, but okay.

WHAT? Cheap 20 year old cars probably need the high-wear/consumable items replaced?

I asked about them because they come up on CL here frequently. Not as frequently as full size pickups or Camaros, but still frequently.

Laugh at it all you want. I already stated I'm not interested in hypermiling, 28 mpg highway would be sufficient. There's a few Volvos around this range.

Depends on what you're doing. Making broad generalizations without context is pretty stupid too (no offense, just the facts).

Find me the Civic hatchback with a real backseat.

What do you care? (Books and mulch, for what it's worth.)

I already said I need a backseat and the Miata would be a 3rd car if at all. Can pimps like you read?

I have to mention the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. It's really a hatchback version of a corolla so you know it a a solid and very reliable little car. 32mpg highway and can haul a bunch of stuff.

That being said old Volvo wagons are baller so I get why you're interested. Never owned one though so I can't help you there. I do think that once they started to get into the 850s and "v" series, things started to get a lot more complicated and expensive to fix.

I've looked at these. $4000ish seems to be the very low end here for a high mileage Pontiac. Good idea, just too much money.

Yeah, somewhere in the late 90's they really seem to start having more issues. Lots of automatic transmissions dying.

Accord wagon

Lots of room, but best of all you get this 2.2L piece of bulletproof, easy to fix, awesomeness:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382491429

^ perfect suggestion. 93-97 were great and you can get them in a manual if you're lucky/patient.

So, you're going to haul mulch, with a volvo wagon?



Accord wagon is very nice, but they're not always the easiest to find. I had a buddy whose 2.2L snapped the timing belt. 75psi of compression on #1, and it still ran. Not well, but it got nearly 20mpg. Its' 4 speed auto was quite similar to the 4 speed my old grand prix had. Unless you're referring to internal construction and rebuilding spec, in which case they are conceptually similar.



Honestly, you seem to be an "expert" in transportation, but with a 2k budget, you essentially have no budget. Does 2k include tags/tax? Does it included the budget to repair/fix the car?

Do old subarus meet your budget? Okay MPG, and I assume the resale isn't insanely high, being that the south doesn't see snow?

Like the idea but ugh so rare. That 2.2l...interference timing belt?

Pull plugs, set to TDC, change belt. It's a SOHC for gods sake.

Occasionally. Why?

No kidding.

I told you what my budget was to purchase a car. Why the attitude? You're not being funny or interesting. Be funny or interesting and I'll overlook the attitude.

Also, please explain the difference between "repairing" and "fixing." I'm just curious.

Yup. Not many Subarus down here, but they come up somewhat often and are usually cheap and rust-free unless they are transplants. MPG is within the acceptable range. Slightly concerned about the rate of failed head gaskets I see, but don't know if it's really that bad or not.

Original post was intended to conclude with a question mark. Interference timing belt isn't a deal-breaker, just a negative.

I'm sorry, but i have to be another asshole in your thread.


You're asking this site advice for a $2000 vehicle that will be you're "livelihood", or a tool you need for your job....


Ummmm Take out a loan and get a decent car?

I'm sorry, but these all seem like shitboxes and i must say i daily drive a pretty big shitpile.

After this thread has run its course I am also looking for a car. ALL these criteria have to be met:

-300whp
-2200lb
-4seat/4door
-3g on the skidpad
-gets all the ladies
-only appreciates in value
-must be $1000 or less

Thanks guyths

*edit: also must be gold plated :dealwithit:

Because no one ever drove to work in a $2000 car.

To this day, subaru still has head gaskets issues. As a Scooby dealer tech told me......


The coolant sits on the gasket all the time, due to the flat piston plane, obviously. Subarus gasket design/composition was not robust enough to deal with the corrosion factor. Extra engine grounds were added to help the issue, but even when forced to offer extended warranties, subaru basically just did a drain-and-fill on the rad, and poured in some "genuine subaru head-gasket conditioner". Otherwise known as "stop-leak".

Frequent coolant flushes are recommended, but most old/cheap subarus are in some stage of the head-gasket failure roulette game. When they do go, it's best to pull the engine to fix it. Or buy an already blown long block, repair it ahead of time, and R&R when necessary. There's lots of $1000 subarus up here, due to bad head gaskets.


They can soldier on for quite a while, so don't rule them out.

Oh, go troll some other thread, you're worthless.

This is the troll thread. And I'm actually not the troll.

You are sweetie pie.

Now refresh that tampon and how about not being a complete and utter dick to everyone huh? And being realistic. People might, you know, help you..

:hustler:

I'm not being a dick to the people that are being helpful. I'm not even being a dick to people that were being unhelpful before and then later decided to provide helpful information.

I know I'm talking about a $2000 daily beater. That's why my requirements are fairly loose, as I clearly spelled out in the first post. And the more cars that I can include in my search, the more likely that I'll hit on a good deal without waiting for months and months. I just want to exclude the cars that I shouldn't bother looking at so I don't waste time on them.

I've been scrounging after a 93-98 impreza for the past few weeks. You can opt for FWD for MPGs and go for the wagon too if you like. Fits the price point if you have the patience and craigslist search skill/time.

From what I've read you can find a non interference 2.2 from 95 to 96, but they're tough to find since 1.8 was standard. From 97 and on the 2.2 was standard, but they're all interference at that point. Also, the major head gasket issues were in the 2.5L from 98+ and the 1.8/2.2 are quite bulletproof unless I've missed something. Plenty of high milers for those engines without prevalent HG trouble. Locating the combo of price, condition, options, drivetrain, and trans type is time consuming as hell.

I'm not subie pro but that's what I've gathered.

The problem with finding a deal on a sub 2k car like that is its ultra hard, because everyone and their mother is looking for the same thing as you, and they're "overpriced" for what they are due to most sellers knowing all this.

I'd include 98-02 corolla's in your list. ultra reliable, good on gas, super easy to maintain, and hold value

Good to know -- thanks. My in-laws have a Forester with the 2.5 that had HG issues with less than 100k miles. I like those first gen Impreza Sport wagons.

...which is why I'm trying to widen my list to as many cars as possible, to make the possibility of a "hit" more likely.

Good idea, but prices are high on Corolla's here. $2500 and under won't get you anything newer than 1995-1996ish.

BUT...that did remind me to add the Geo/Chevy Prizm to my list. Seems to run $1000-1200 cheaper than a comparable Corolla. I have my vanity, I would immediately swap the badges.

Hold it right there, he may occasionally need to move mulch. A V8 pickup is obviously a requirement. Probably need 4wd too; the walmart garden center is quite a trek.






On a serious note, I forgot older subarus even offered FWD.

I honestly don't get it. Why is wanting some cargo room a bad thing?

also keep in mind anything being sold for 2k will likely require another 1k minimum of maint and little misc things to make it not a giant tub of crap

older/cheaper cars tend to really nickle and dime you

Thanks guys for the advice. I'm excited about buying my first car ever.

Get a mx6 GT like Concealer. Buy some bandaids from him, have fun with your 300whp DD with a back seat. He said he got 40mpg highway going down to the GRM challenge.

Would love a 626 GT in good condition. Find me one under my budget within a day's drive and I'll give you a $100 finder's fee.

Before you jump down my shit for this next part I'd like to add that you should get a taurus / sable wagon. The older ones can be found for $1000-$2000, and the more modern (not this recent model generation(i don't even think they make a wagon)) you can buy from $3000-$4000 for a nice old-grandma-owned-only-driven-to-church-on-sunday one. Plus they are pretty much the most reliable vehicle around and parts are more than easy to find and afford.


Wait a minute... "drive to work" and "make a living with" are two different things. Lets just make that clear. Because i drive to work in a $2000 car, and it's a 2002 model with a full back seat, and gets around 30mpg, probably more if i didn't get the v6 model.

I've been looking for the same thing. I decided on a 96-97 Lexus es300. Quite a few around 2k here. They have 190hp so they can get out of their own way, they have all the creature comforts, and once I put some lower control arms and struts on I'm golden

All the coil springs break. Every fucking time. Ford taurus = 4 quick struts. Oh, and the water pumps. They are cheap as hell though, mainly because no-one wants them.




mgeoffriau: I (and most people) give truck owners a hard time because we see it as a logical fallacy. You purchase the truck to be more convenient. You can move shit, you can tow, etc. Yet for the added "convenience", you receive crappy mileage, crappy park-ability, and expensive consumables. The truck is the ultimate compromise, and 9 times out of 10, the owner compromises more than they benefit. All the while thinking they got the system beat. :hustler:

tl;dr - A civic can move mulch, don't over-think it.

Subaru Justy, son.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382534732

Not sure where the "make a living with" consideration came from, other than your own comments. Was it because I mentioned what my job pays for travel mileage? That was just for reference -- I don't travel for my job very much, and when I do we're talking within a 100 mile radius of my office. I don't need a nice new car for long cross-country trips.

Good one. I'm prejudiced against Camry's after a bad experience with one, but I'd be willing to give it another look in the ES300. Apparently the 1991-1996 generation was offered with a manual transmission but it's pretty rare.

I understand that. It's why I no longer want the truck.

However, when I needed to move a thousand pounds worth of books around town on a weekly basis for my job, having a truck wasn't really a "logical fallacy."

I enjoyed my geo storm DD to the point of actively searching for an Impulse RS. Wagon style available:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382537628

There's also Saturn wagons out there.

Handling by Lotus!

SL2 wagon.... That's it.

Wife had a Geo Storm wagon. Nice car until the dealership screwed up the transmission.

Prizm, Storm, and Chevy/Geo Spectrum hatch are all reliable choices. I bought my nephew a 60k mi Prizm for $1200 last year that belonged to the estate of a little old lady. She died and they were selling it. Every body panel had been hit at some point and fixed but no major accidents. Old lady was likely nearly blind and probably dangerous. All maintenance including timing belt had been done and the receipts showed she had been overcharged relentlessly. I hate people who prey on widows and orphans.

Camry 2.2L, non-interference. I would avoid the Toyota V6s unless the person has service records. They tend to sludge up if someone doesn't do regular oil changes.

Im also looking for a saab 9000. They haz turbo, everyone I know that has one says they are awesome, but havent found a single one for sale in TX.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382621479

Just don't get an automatic. And I hope you have time to work on them. They're apparently fairly reliable, just need plenty of upkeep.

I've considered a volvo myself, and come to the conclusion that I can't keep my wish for a wagon. Finding a manual turbo is hard enough, neither of which I want to swap in myself.

If you truly need a manual turbo wagon, go for the 700 series. They're the only ones where I've found nice leather interiors, stick shifts, turbos, with a wagon body.

needs work:
740 Volvo Wagon Turbo

fuck yes look at that engine!
1987 VOLVO 740 TURBO 5SPEED

granted these don't help you in Texas, but you get my point.

1980s Toyota Tercel Wagon, bitches:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382635725

Actually I've been really tempted by a couple EF Civic wagons that are up for sale (somewhat) locally. Unfortunately, both are in bad shape with rust or body damage and incomplete/halfassed swaps and modifications.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382635901

I don't get it dude. You're being a huge troll.

You make reference to getting paid to drive. You make reference to having to haul stuff for work. Then you jump down someone's throat for assuming (only not assuming since you said so) that you're making a living with this potential purchase.

You've been called out as being a dick by 3 different people now. Perhaps you need to reconsider your position.

Buy a used Honda goldwing [miata, or whatever else you want] with small trailer. Tow trailer when necessary.

I'll contribute something somewhat helpful as well though. The old volvos are tanks. Very good cars if well maintained. The 4-speed autos are very durable. 5-speeds are very not. Go 7xx or older for the good ones.

Isuzu reliability is a win.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382698397

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382698397

Really? No one is going to comment on the reference in post #44? I am disappointed.

I said I got paid mileage when I need to travel, I didn't say that my primary job necessitated a lot of traveling. The references to hauling stuff for work had to do with the people going on and on about how stupid it was to own a truck despite the fact that they had no idea why I needed a truck in the first place (and why I no longer need a truck).

Bottom line: I was clear in the first post what kind of cars I'm looking at, and was perfectly polite to anyone who offered real advice. I'm not some noob who just jumped in with a dumb question and then keyboard-raged on everyone.

Want to talk about cars I could buy? Awesome, I love it. Want to be a dick and make dumbass comments about why I shouldn't have owned a truck when you have no idea why I owned a truck in the first place? Pound sand.

Had to look it up. No HBO, sorry.

Anyway, if I'm being the dick here, I'm sorry. Clearly everyone else understands better the daily requirements of my previous job and the new requirements of my current job, and it's much more interesting to discuss why I obviously didn't need a truck before than to discuss what kind of car I should buy to replace my truck.

But I want to talk about cars. Can we just talk about the cars now?

I see no reason why a $2k vehicle can't be a reliable daily-driver. My $800 Miata never left me stranded. You just have to start with the right car and take proper care of it. Suggestions such as you have made are the sort of baseless hysteria which drives the present day debt-culture that so confounds me.


Of all of the suggestions which have been posted here, the mid-90s Accord weighs most heavily with merit. Be not afraid of interference engines. For every one horror story, there are ten thousand people who weren't idiots and actually bothered to replace it every 60,000 miles.

Parts are cheap and plentiful, and these cars (both engine and chassis) are reasonably easy to work on.


I would not completely exclude a first-gen Honda Insight from your search. While they are only two-seaters, they do have a surprising amount of cargo room in the back. They are fairly easy to work on, will do a no-BS 50 MPG all day long, many of them had manual gearboxes, and battery replacement is both easy and cheap. You will definitely blow the $2k budget here, but it's worth at least considering. (Also, it's a little-known fact that even with a mostly-dead battery, the Insight will run just fine and still return fairly good mileage. This makes it somewhat unique among modern hybrids.)

And you can put a small turbo on it and it will not only be more fun to drive but it will actually return better mileage.

I've been looking more closely at Accords. It seems like resale value is no better than a Civic of comparable year and condition.

I am highly, highly tempted by this:

HONDA ACCORD

If this is a manual transmission, it'd be perfect.

Backseat is a must. I have to be able to carry more than 1 passenger, and if I end up with an additional car it'll be a Miata, so this one has to be a 4 seater. Otherwise, I like the idea. They remind me of my 1990 CRX HF.

My daily driver is a $2000 vehicle, it's never let me down. Even my Miata which cost me $2000 new and all it's mods has never let me down.
Do i trust them to not let me down, no. But i have backups, and it's besides the point.

I made my comment before OP made it clear it didn't matter if the 82 volvo quit while hauling 1600lbs of mulch somewhere. From what i understood, how he said it at the time, that it would negatively impact his job and thus his life.
So now that he has made himself clear i retract my statement and gave my advice.

Saturn SL2 wagon
or
Ford Taurus wagon

Notice the brake pedal is wide...most likely an automatic.

Good catch, you're absolutely right. Still a contender even with an automatic.

I agree wholeheartedly. The debt-culture plays games with people's ego-driven wants versus their actual needs. I've seen people justify spending $30k on a brand new more fuel efficient vehicle to "save money on gas" when they are only going to save about $2000 a year. And they damn sure aren't going to keep the new one long enough to break even (15yrs).

I have similarly had people tell me they "had to" buy a new car because their existing car needed a few hundred dollars of routine maintenance work and they "needed" to buy something (for thirty thousand dollars) that didn't cost so much to maintain. This took them from a few hundred dollars in rare and occasional routine repairs to several hundred dollars every single month for five or six years. I love the idiots who say "but I got a warranty now" as justification to throw away $25,000 extra dollars above what the repairs would have been for the same time period.

All they really want is for someone to tell them it is OK for them to waste their money on the new car they want to buy anyway. It is all about rationalizing irresponsible spending.

There are real reasons to own a newer vehicle, at least around these parts. Once a car hits 10-12 years old, the rust is going to start costing you lots of money and down time. I don't know about anyone else, but I need to be to work at an early hour each day or I won't have a job for long. When your lines start to go, it's thousands of dollars and several days to repair for each set. If you don't do them all (brakes, fuel, transmission cooler, P/S) at a grand or more a pop, you'll be out every time one of them goes. Putting 5+ grand into an otherwise decent vehicle doesn't make sense in the long run. Sure, it runs well, but it's falling apart due to corrosion. Leaks are an indication that it's time to let someone else have the headaches.

These are both excellent points. "Old" is, of course, a relative term. In southern Arizona, a well maintained 40 year old vehicle is likely to be in perfectly serviceable condition. In upstate New York, a 10 year old vehicle is nearing the end of its service live for the specific reason of rust.

Of course, one need not confine one's self only to vehicles which are located nearby. A person who lives in New York (such as myself) would likely be better served to import a 15 year old car from a southern state than to pay thrice as much for a five year old car located in the same town.

As an example, I sold my rust-free '92 about four years ago while living in San Diego. It was purchased by a person in Michigan, and only cost about $700 to ship. He got an excellent deal on a clean car- far better than if he'd limited himself to searching in his local area.