Offshore drilling, thoughts? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-01-2008, 10:10 AM   #21
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
I keep hearing that oil companies have record high profits. Is there any truth to this? I figured it's another one of those rumors. If it is true why is gas still so high?
Walmarts profit are even higher, do you think walmart should lower their prices?

Gas is high because of wall street speculation, decreasing value of the dollar, and OPECs threat to curb production. IMHO, those are the MAIN reasons why its so high.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 10:45 AM   #22
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

The profits of exxonmobil are not rumor. just do a news search on it.

incidentally, the whole "drill here drill now" thing may be moot very soon. Iraq has JUST agreed to open its oil fields to foreign oil companies. Since contracts will likely be signed in a few weeks and "production" will start shortly thereafter, you can expect this to have a near-immediate impact on gas prices.

I'd bet we drop 25-50 cents per gallon within the month.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 10:59 AM   #23
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Walmarts profit are even higher, do you think walmart should lower their prices?

Gas is high because of wall street speculation, decreasing value of the dollar, and OPECs threat to curb production. IMHO, those are the MAIN reasons why its so high.

Well said Sam, I agree 10000%. Dont forget the amount of money the Gov't takes in taxes from the Oil companies and does absolutely nothing to help produce the oil. As for Oil spills, I heard on the radio the other day that more oil spills into the Oceans naturally then man has ever spilled. So you cant really use that as an excuse anymore either.

The bottom line here weather you like it or not is drilling for oil here right now is the only short term answer to high prices. To be honest it dosent even have to be a short term answer. I heard we have enough oil in this country alone to last iirc something like 300 years. What do I know though all I can go by is what the media lets us hear and read.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:03 AM   #24
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
As for Oil spills, I heard on the radio the other day that more oil spills into the Oceans naturally then man has ever spilled. So you cant really use that as an excuse anymore either.
Bad argument; out of context. There's a big difference between some oil leaking into the water at the bottom of the ocean and a tanker running aground and spilling its contents onto the shore.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:08 AM   #25
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Bad argument; out of context. There's a big difference between some oil leaking into the water at the bottom of the ocean and a tanker running aground and spilling its contents onto the shore.
Maybe, but when was the last time you or anyone you know or anyone on this forum from all points of this country went to the beach and couldnt swim because of oil?

Not to mention a tanker running aground has nothing to do with drilling here. Either way were gonna have oil shipped in. Maybe if it didnt have to travel so far the likely hood of a spill would be less.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:09 AM   #26
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Bad argument; out of context. There's a big difference between some oil leaking into the water at the bottom of the ocean and a tanker running aground and spilling its contents onto the shore.
was just about to make that point. would be interesting to see the data that says how many of the natural oil spills occur within 10 miles of a coastline.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:12 AM   #27
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

The real question is whether or not current oil leases are recieiving any drilling activity, or if they're just locked up, further dragging production to spike prices, and using the off-shore option as a scape goat to distract, create a scape-goat, and genuinely gang-bang the middle class.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

Good point Hustler. I keep hearing that the oil companies currently have something like 63 million acres where they are allowed to drill but they arent. Whats up with that?
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 11:16 AM   #29
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

who cares about the environment? God gave us this earth to skull-****.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 01:10 PM   #30
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: santa cruz
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
who cares about the environment? God gave us this earth to skull-****.

Awe man, I used to like your posts. I fully endorse skull *******, but this just makes you sound ignorant.
chucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 02:05 PM   #31
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
1) Hydrogen electrolysis for cars
Question- where do we get the power from to do this? I assume you are referring to the liberation of hydrogen from water. Presently, the vast majority of domestic hydrogen is produced by refining natural gas or other hydrocarbon compounds.

Production of hydrogen by the electrolytic seperation of water is pretty energy-intensive process. The potential energy of the hydrogen that results from the process is considerably less than the electrical energy consumed to perform the seperation. Seems that it would be more economical to use that electricty directly to charge a battery.

Don't get me wrong- I think hydrogen has great potential for use as a source of power for automobiles. It's a bit trickier to handle than other, more common compressed gasses (LPG, CNG, etc) but it's not impossible. Also, it's multiuse- you can run it through fuel cells (trendy) or you can burn it in a concentional internal combustion engine (inexpensive, practical.) I just don't see how we're going to economically produce enough hydrogen to satisfy potential demand in the first place.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 02:05 PM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,997
Total Cats: 1
Default

Exxonmobile made ~40 billion in profits last year I believe.
johndoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 02:55 PM   #33
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: santa cruz
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Question- where do we get the power from to do this? I assume you are referring to the liberation of hydrogen from water. Presently, the vast majority of domestic hydrogen is produced by refining natural gas or other hydrocarbon compounds.

Production of hydrogen by the electrolytic seperation of water is pretty energy-intensive process. The potential energy of the hydrogen that results from the process is considerably less than the electrical energy consumed to perform the seperation. Seems that it would be more economical to use that electricty directly to charge a battery.

Don't get me wrong- I think hydrogen has great potential for use as a source of power for automobiles. It's a bit trickier to handle than other, more common compressed gasses (LPG, CNG, etc) but it's not impossible. Also, it's multiuse- you can run it through fuel cells (trendy) or you can burn it in a concentional internal combustion engine (inexpensive, practical.) I just don't see how we're going to economically produce enough hydrogen to satisfy potential demand in the first place.
My last read suggested an alleged 94% efficiency. Admittedly, this seems suspiciously high - and is still less appreciable than would be the direct application of the electricity consumed - but it lends hope to the possibilities of the process nonetheless.
chucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 03:43 PM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,997
Total Cats: 1
Default

the other problem with hydrogen and ethenol is infrastructure. We'll be using oil for YEARS before either of those could support a national fleet of cars. I still think eletric is where it's at (other than conservation). We have the infrastructure now, and we could gradually switch to cleaner methods of supplying the power.
johndoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 03:54 PM   #35
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Question- where do we get the power from to do this?
I've got graphs!!
From this article: http://www.memagazine.org/mepower03/...g/gauging.html

It's basically an analysis of "alternative fueling methods". Note that the places it says "diesel" or "conventional SI" do not necessarily mean using those fuels, only those engines.

Fig 1: Efficiency of fuel production


Summary: there is little energy expended to put natural gas in your tank.
there is a LOT of energy expended to create hydrogen by electrolysis.

Fig 2: car efficiency.


Summary: diesel hybrids rank highly as do electrics. natural gas/hydrogen in your car not so much.

Fig 3. overall "well to wheels" efficiency or the total efficiency to produce the gas AND run your car. basically the "long view" and not "I just plug it into the wall and voila".


Summary: Hybrids and natural gas / Fischer-Tropsch processed diesel are the clear winners. Hydrogen by electrolysis shows up dead last.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 04:06 PM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ABQ, NM
Posts: 1,850
Total Cats: -8
Default

There isn't a distinction between, US oil at $50/bl and Saudi $140/bl, to the market it's just oil.
BenR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 04:28 PM   #37
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: santa cruz
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Summary: Hybrids and natural gas / Fischer-Tropsch processed diesel are the clear winners. Hydrogen by electrolysis shows up dead last.
Ouch. My ***** actually hurt right now. This clearly obliteratess my original suggestion so I'll shut up now.
chucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 05:10 PM   #38
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Summary: Hybrids and natural gas / Fischer-Tropsch processed diesel are the clear winners. Hydrogen by electrolysis shows up dead last.
... with battery-electric somewhere in the middle.

Excellent graphs, and good data. Just one thought:

If we (the North American and western European nations) would finally get over ourselves and resume investing in fission-based power generation, then those charts would be rendered meaningless. As a practical, mass-market form of power generation, nuclear energy is as close to free as you can get. I don't mean free from a monetary standpoint of course- nukes are expensive to build, expensive to run, and expensive to clean up after. But in terms of their environmental impact (resources consumed and atmospheric emissions produced) they're damn near magic.

In other words, who cares if the overall efficiency of a nuke-to-EV powerchain is 5%, if the energy was more or less impact-free to begin with.

Yeah, wind and solar are neat playthings, but they're just not practical for truly large-scale generation in most parts of the world. I have no problem with people planting windmills and solar collectors here and there throughout the southwestern US and selling "green" energy to liberals, but I can't really see either of those technologies being of much use in Ohio.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 05:24 PM   #39
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 780
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe View Post
Exxonmobile made ~40 billion in profits last year I believe.
That is something like .33 per gallon. US Government taxed them around
.84 per gallon. Do the math on that...
96rdstr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008, 05:24 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,382
Total Cats: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
The real question is whether or not current oil leases are recieiving any drilling activity, or if they're just locked up, further dragging production to spike prices, and using the off-shore option as a scape goat to distract, create a scape-goat, and genuinely gang-bang the middle class.

elesjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Moroso Air Oil Separator Catch Can Aroundcorner Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 04:20 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 AM.