Paul, you retard, you didn't need all that badass shit to make 300whp on a 99 motor. - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-22-2008, 04:39 PM   #81
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someone somewhere mentioned there's an onboard datalog feature but i'm dubious. especially since the hydra manual says the computer must be connected.
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Old 08-22-2008, 04:51 PM   #82
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I love you y8s, but there is a bunch of **** on your list that my MSpnp could do (or is a non-issue like the WBO2) if my **** didn't live in a box. Of course, this only applies to NA cars. For an NB, Hydra makes much more sense, especially the price since you **** drive bloated poser rides and have tiny-girl legs that fit between the seat and the steering wheel. Maybe instead of hydra you guys should spend your money on a gym membership.

My experience with customer support from DIY can't possibly be inferior to FM's.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:13 PM   #83
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big-talk-stler, plug-n-play for you means letting it sit for 6 months and then having someone else do it.

so what are the specifics of the MSPNP that does what hydra does? I believe in DIY as a supplier. I've seen them on this forum. Oh and back when I bought my hydra it was only 1700 so it was only a thousand dollar difference to get something that... well... existed.

PS: I had to get a deep dish wheel to fit my massive quads. my legs kept hitting the steering wheel when I used the brakes. usain bolt was born in a test tube of my jizz.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:24 PM   #84
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Of course, this only applies to NA cars. For an NB, Hydra makes much more sense.

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!

Still interested in more info on the "this car was an anomaly and we don't know why" from Keith regarding the 300hp car.

For FM I definetely understand wanting to avoid constantly having to defend yourself against all the forum fall out. What a pain in the butt but anyone in business with competitors has to do it to some extent, either in person or on forums.

Of course being in business I only expect FM to post the best numbers they can. If FM has a car that tests weaker than expected they aren't going to post it up to brag about it. It only makes sense to promote the successes. When you get far better than expected or seemingly imbrobable numbers from a certain car you should expect to have to defend them some.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:26 PM   #85
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big-talk-stler, plug-n-play for you means letting it sit for 6 months and then having someone else do it.

so what are the specifics of the MSPNP that does what hydra does? I believe in DIY as a supplier. I've seen them on this forum. Oh and back when I bought my hydra it was only 1700 so it was only a thousand dollar difference to get something that... well... existed.

PS: I had to get a deep dish wheel to fit my massive quads. my legs kept hitting the steering wheel when I used the brakes. usain bolt was born in a test tube of my jizz.
boost control, AC, alternator is a non-issue, o2 sensor is simple, switched outputs...

There are a few things MSpnp won't do, but not that many.

/argument
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:36 PM   #86
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alternator is not a non-issue in the later cars since it's not internally regulated.

I should work up a cost for all the piddly little BS that has to be done to make it work and then we can compare actual cost. lets assume my time is $40/hr plus cost of materials. $1000 comes up in 25 hours without material costs.

And I know you're the kind of guy who has only limited time on your hands because you're a busy ****. And I know you also want the best bang for the buck because you're tracking the car and need reliability. But I've been down both roads. I ran a Tec3 and it was the opposite of plug and play. It was run-every-wire-and-pray.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:40 PM   #87
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For a pre-97 car, the Hydra doesn't offer any major advantages beyond sequential ignition, and I'm sure not paying $1k to fire my spark plugs individually. For a '99-00 car, it's debatable since you can get an MS that pretty much hooks straight up. For an '01 car, if you want VVT control, there's only one option.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:50 PM   #88
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For a pre-97 car, the Hydra doesn't offer any major advantages beyond sequential ignition, and I'm sure not paying $1k to fire my spark plugs individually. For a '99-00 car, it's debatable since you can get an MS that pretty much hooks straight up. For an '01 car, if you want VVT control, there's only one option.
injection, not ignition. both do sequential spark. MS doesn't squirt four times.
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:20 PM   #89
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alternator is not a non-issue in the later cars since it's not internally regulated.

I should work up a cost for all the piddly little BS that has to be done to make it work and then we can compare actual cost. lets assume my time is $40/hr plus cost of materials. $1000 comes up in 25 hours without material costs.

And I know you're the kind of guy who has only limited time on your hands because you're a busy ****. And I know you also want the best bang for the buck because you're tracking the car and need reliability. But I've been down both roads. I ran a Tec3 and it was the opposite of plug and play. It was run-every-wire-and-pray.
Put an early alternator on it!!!!!!!!!! (ok, better now) If we're talking about cutting checks instead of doing work, then you have a point...but that's no one here, maybe on our favorite forum, not this one. People who want to cut checks for **** like this should just buy a porsche, they have no business with these cars.

Your points are valid on NB cars, not NA cars, and now I've fucked myself into a syntax game and going to go back to espousing federal doctrine in bullshit meetings.
I ran Haltech on my VW and it was not only hope and pray, but also "well, **** it, lets try it like this and maybe it will start." I'm not really that busy, natural disasters just keep ******* up my schedule...for the last 3-years.
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:30 PM   #90
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Quote:
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MS is a much better value, but the Hydra hardware is ****.
This is going to kick my *** in the very near future. Source a used Hydra, or a Chad-MS? I guess the real decision will be whether or not I end up with a '99 or '01. '00 makes no sense and I won't be able to afford '02+.

I see guys on VVT cars w/Hydra and these huge sausage-fat torque curves and I mess my pants. Hydra makes less sense on a '99 but I also see what a little head-prep on a '99 will do for spool and top-end. Onboard wideband is one less thing to have to wire. It's a tough call.

In the end, I think I'll go with the Hydra unless the MS gurus make MSII idiot-proof or DIY releases a PnP. I've seen Hydra's used... just gotta be quick.
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:34 PM   #91
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this ecu talk is fun and all.......but........howabout that heads up comparison test? when is that happening?
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:21 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
This is going to kick my *** in the very near future. Source a used Hydra, or a Chad-MS? I guess the real decision will be whether or not I end up with a '99 or '01. '00 makes no sense and I won't be able to afford '02+.

I see guys on VVT cars w/Hydra and these huge sausage-fat torque curves and I mess my pants. Hydra makes less sense on a '99 but I also see what a little head-prep on a '99 will do for spool and top-end. Onboard wideband is one less thing to have to wire. It's a tough call.

In the end, I think I'll go with the Hydra unless the MS gurus make MSII idiot-proof or DIY releases a PnP. I've seen Hydra's used... just gotta be quick.
with hydra not offering much in the way of upgrade paths, used ones should be easy to find for decent prices.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:54 PM   #93
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I hope so. FM's DealofTheDay today was Elvis's former Hydra 2.1 for $1300. I won't need injectors, so that'll save some.

I don't see any reason to have to buy anything new if I've got this entire forum searching for me. Just about everything I'll need I've seen several of used in the various Miata-centric classifieds. The only things I've never seen used are the bad-*** Manifold/DP combos. I'm definitely in for an S4 or AbsurdFlow with a matching DP... but those don't pop up used all that often.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:58 PM   #94
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there's only like 3 or 4 absurd flow miata manifolds lol
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:02 PM   #95
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so i take it you will not be getting the zoom3 or whatever its called from begi? i was a bit dissapointed to hear that it will only control up to 8psi and on stock injectors
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:21 PM   #96
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I hope so. FM's DealofTheDay today was Elvis's former Hydra 2.1 for $1300. I won't need injectors, so that'll save some.

I don't see any reason to have to buy anything new if I've got this entire forum searching for me. Just about everything I'll need I've seen several of used in the various Miata-centric classifieds. The only things I've never seen used are the bad-*** Manifold/DP combos. I'm definitely in for an S4 or AbsurdFlow with a matching DP... but those don't pop up used all that often.
wasn't paul just selling one for like $29.99 or somethin?
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:22 AM   #97
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so i take it you will not be getting the zoom3 or whatever its called from begi? i was a bit dissapointed to hear that it will only control up to 8psi and on stock injectors
That's BEGI's line. If the ZOOM works it's magic like most piggybacks in it's class, the limiting factor is less in the piggyback and more in the stock ECU.

The stock ECU still does all of the work of creating the indiviual injector pulses and timing pulses. The piggyback modifies those stock signals. Typically, the piggyback does not have the ability to shorten injector pulse length at idle RPMS. So if you throw a big injector in there, you get a huge amount of fuel at idle and it won't idle. If that's the case, then a 330cc injector is probably the upper limit. You might get as much as 10-11psi depending on the turbo you're running.
I think there'll be people getting 230whp... maybe 240whp with a big exhaust. I know I've seen a '97 w/Voodoo and Bipes hit 210whp on a 2560. With the additional timing control of the ZOOM3 and a slightly more efficient turbo... who knows what's possible on a '99.

I'll be dedicating a BIG thread to my upcoming NB project. I'd love a super-efficient tubular manifold... the S4 is seXx, but bragging rights for owning something called Absurdflow is too much to overlook. We'll see what the cost vs. benefits are when the time comes.
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:31 AM   #98
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yeah, well Im planning something similar: lean towards the zoom till ms pnp is available or I find a used hydra for cheap or something like that.

looking forward to your future project, who knows: you might beat me to a turbo nb.
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Old 08-23-2008, 12:36 PM   #99
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there's only like 3 or 4 absurd flow miata manifolds lol
two and a half actually. hehe

When I finally get out of this condo and into my new house I'll be able to start cranking them out, hopefully mid november. Maybe even do a Jig for the DP and exhaust. ha that'd be the day. I did get two 220VAC 50amp outlets installed in the garage
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:19 PM   #100
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[QUOTE=samnavy;300015]... who knows what's possible on a '99.QUOTE]

is there any difference between the 99 and 00
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