Question for the Gun Gurus!
 

I just bought myself a little Walther Pistol for some Plinking and might carry it one day. While I've been around guns my entire life I am a bit of a :noob: when it comes to ammo, and more specifically getting the most for your dollar so I'd like a little advice.

Just spent a few hours googling my model gun and any reviews or results to shooting wolf branded "Performance" ammo to find nobody has been silly(stupid?) enough to use junk ammo in it. Things I've learned, all wolf has steel casings, and most have steel projectiles that are thinly coated with copper jacket. Did however find their "gold" line is actually copper jacketed hollow points and pretty reasonable priced still. In a .380ACP a 50 round box of gold hollow points is $19.00 off the interwebs, vs the 91gr 'bi metal' steel/copper jacketed rounds at $179 for 500 rounds at Cabelas..

Things I've learned; Theory of why spent casings jam in the chambers of guns after firing wolf used to be because of the poly coating on the casing which has been proven false. All accounts I've found the steel casing doesn't expand like a brass would, and 'dirty gas' leaks between the casing and the chamber. One reviewer had an AR15 he fired 200 rounds of wolf through then loaded up some brass cased rounds that promptly became glued into the chamber. After removal the casing was very obviously coated in carbon, but if he shot the wolf and allowed the rifle to cool down none of the brass casing rounds stuck.

Basically I'm curious if anyone has ever used the cheap Russian ammo in their pistol? Any other side effects using it? Just clean the piss out of your gun after firing it? (no, I wouldn't carry a pistol with wolf in it, for the record. ;))

You bought a 380 for plinking? Geez, you have too much money!

I have not used Wolf in my pistol but have used it in my SKS. A lot of people will tell you to stay away from the steel casings and I would probably heed that warning. I know the manufacture of my carry pistol says to not use it (so I don't).

Also, I used to clean all my guns after every time I used them. I only clean them now if I have a problem with them (hasn't happened yet). This includes my .22 rifle which sees 500 rounds a week of the dirtiest, nastiest, cheapest ammo I can find.

Which Walther did you pick up?

If you picked up the P22 to plink with I would have to recommend that you use CCI MiniMags as your ammo of choice until you do the mods outlined here.

With you talking about .380 it sounds like you either picked up a PK380 or a PPKS. I have a PPKS and the only not brass casing ammo I have ever used has been blazer. I shot 100 rounds or so and I did not particulary care for it. Overall it just seemed much cheaper made then most bronzed cased ammo that I have used.

Also where are you finding 50 rounds of hollow point for 19$ in stock? Locally I am paying around $20-$30 for 25 rounds of hollow point. For FMJ I usually pay about $20 a box at the local guns stores IF they have it in stock, which is rarely. At the gun show this past weekend I was able to pick up some American Eagle ammo for $17 a box and that was the cheapest I have seen in a year.

Ive used wolf in both of my ak's, but then again they are ak's so they shoot anything.

Got a H&K HK-4. Converts between .22 and .380. Shoot more .22 during these trying times.

I've put about 5000 rounds of Wolf through my Glock and notice no problems/wear/buildup as long as I clean it each time I use it a few hundred rounds at a time.

Not an ammo guru by any stretch, but I can parrot what others have already told you by noting that my soon-to-be-step-brother-in-law (who is a deputy) runs pretty much nothing but a combination of Wolf and some other steel-cased cheapies through his AK47 and his SKS. Though of course, as Fireindc noted, both are Soviet-designed guns that are pretty much going to shoot reliably even if completely immersed in sand.

I only shoot brass casings through my Makarov (.380). Even if the ammo burns clean, I will clean the gun completely even after only firing 5 rounds or wait until after a shooting session. I can imagine it would not have a problem eating up cheap ammo either though. My AK and SKS eat the crap out of Wolf ammo with no problems at all. Even take some of the CHEAPER Russian ammo with no problem. Just make sure the chamber is clean and that the recoil and mag springs are good and you should be fine. Unless there is a flaw in the actual gun, which is not likely for a Walter PPKS...

Always clean your weapon after use. The carbon is soft initially and easy to clean, but hardens over time. And the by-products of combustion can cause problems if left on surfaces for long periods of time (facilitates rust/corrosion). Clean and re-oil to replace oil film burned off/contaminated from use.

I shoot cheap Russian ammo and better domestic ammo and there is a large difference in the amount of smoke and carbon between the two. If you are plinking and cleaning afterward then no harm is done. But I would never use a gun and not clean and re-oil it afterward. That is an irresponsible way to treat your weapon.

Well Cool, Thanks for the feedback!

I wanted to go with the 380 for a dual purpose type of deal, something that I could actually carry one day but wasn't over the top when it comes to ammo costs. .380 is kind of hard to find around here, but I've found a ton of places on the interwebs and what I can find is a hell of a lot cheaper than .45acp is.

http://www.jugrnot.com/IMAG0196_edit0.jpg

Several reasons I went with a PK380. The fitment in my hand is absolutely fantastic -- Really can't say enough good things about how it feels. During my shopping I handled about 150 different pistols and most of them I just flat didn't like. I know two people who use Walther P22s for plinking and I've run about 2000 rounds through each, one is a standard length barrel and the other is the 4" extended (or whatever it is..) That is one of the funnest and cheapest to fire little pistols I've ever seen!

Cabelas has Wolf branded ammo on their website, and sometime I might go into the store and buy a smaller box if I can. From what it looks like in the picture they show, it has a 'bi metal case' and 'full metal jacket' slug but according to Wolf's site it should be a steel casing and 'bi metal jacket' projectile. If I can find a cheap box of 25 rounds or so I'll disassemble one and see if they're really total copper jacketed rounds. Also notice the casing in the pictures look brass?

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/c...1?$main-Large$
Cabela's -- Wolf Bulk .380 Auto Ammunition

Far as the JHP rounds for 20$ per box/50 I found here: Wolf Gold Centerfire Ammunition G380HP1, 380 ACP, Jacketed Hollow Point, 94 GR, 952 fps, 50 Rd/bx But just now noticed its 'out of stock.' When I get more time later I'll browse around and see if I can find a supplier that stocks those.

:makeout:

Could be that the rounds in the picture of the Wolf Gold brand? Wrong box for it, though...

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/c...?$main-Medium$

Might just be that not every webpage designer is an ammo expert...

Just buy a box and shoot it, see how it works. Modern ammo isn't corrosive, but you still need to clean your gun after use. I mean what's the worst that could happen, your gun jams with it? The only way to tell is to actually try it since all guns are different. I used to shoot wolf 9mm out of my sig P226 all the time, probably around 100 rounds a week if not more. Never had a single jam or misfire. Oh yea btw, steel cases expand during firing, they are just a lot more elsatic than brass cases and snap back pretty close to original size. A lot of the reason guns won't work with them is the much increased bolt thrust as the case doesn't stick to the chamber walls like brass would.

Nice PK380. Let me know how you like it after a few weeks of shooting it. I also love the way that it feels in my hand and have seriously thought about picking it up. Unfortunately I do not need another .380 carry gun right now.

Good luck on finding .380 ammo for it. Looking on line you usually find a lot of places that claim to have it, but really are out of stock. The best luck I have had is going to the local gun stores often and praying that they have ammo in stock. Also check out gun shows for it. Like I said i found an independent guy that was selling American Eagle ammo for $17 a box and that has been the best I have found in a long time. Also for Hollow Point I would recommend that you pick up several different types and see what shoot best out of your weapon.

This! Might be time consuming for SOME long rifles (I own a few of these), but totally worth it in the longevity of the gun and parts. Handguns are pretty simple for the most part.

Don't buy ammo from Cabelas when The Sportsman's Guide is so much cheaper ($30 less per 500 rds.)

They have performance ammo for that Walther at good prices as well.

The guys on my 10/22 said I was nuts for cleaning it each time. Some quotes when I said I clean mine after every time I shot it:

There are guns that HAVE to be cleaned every time you shoot them or they start to malfunction. The 10/22 isn't one of them....

I bet its been 3-4 years since I cleaned my 10-22 . I was doing a barrel test yesterday and my pard was changing out barrels on my rifle while I evaluated the targets and mentioned it looked pretty bad . I looked in the rifle and there was a bunch of gray goop and some gritty looking crap . The rifle is still shooting into the .3's off a crappy rest so I left it the Hell alone .

I used to do as you do, then I got older and wised up. Wipe it down with oil to prevent rust, clean it when it starts to malfunction or accuracy drops off. Anything more and you're ''playing with it''!

I clean my 22s regularly..........about once a year. I do wipe the outside off with an oily rag before they go in the safe, but just don't really clean them very often.

I try to clean mine faithfully, every February 29th. If I happen to forget it, I'll just wait for the next regularly scheduled cleaning.

i never really clean a 10/22 until it stops firing or i see a massive amount of "grit" in the receiver. youre overdoing it

My handguns I clean faithfully my .22 just a nice wipe down with a lightly oiled rag and in the safe they go

Yes, I love the way my Walther P22 feels in my hand (looks the same as your 380). I wanted to look at the 380 version the other day and they said they didn't have any. I guess I shouldn't have sold all of the 6000 rounds of .380 I had sitting here. I did make over $1000 on it though. I pretty much gave away the last ten boxes I had because I didn't want to mess with the shipping and stuff any longer.

Eh, most .22 ammo is pretty frickin' dirty, especially the cheap stuff. I don't do a full takedown and cleaning after every shoot, but I definitely clean the grime out of the chamber, off the extractor, and I make sure the bolt or slide cycles freely.

Ive heard that steel casings will ruin an AR receiver within a few thousand rounds. That and the ammo isn't reloadable. If it shoots fine in the gun, id run it.

That's like waiting to change the oil and filter in your car when the rod bearings start knocking. What dumbasses. I guess they have never shot competitively. You want the inside of your barrel to be as close to exactly the same every time as possible. It is amazing to me that "grit and goop" in the barrel is acceptable to anyone. It is frankly just laziness and lack of proper training and discipline that leads to behavior like that. Mechanical empathy wouldn't let me do it.

Damn, you're right. Spending $3,000 to get a new engine installed when you just ruined the old one by never changing the oil is EXACTLY the same as spending 15 minutes once a year to clean your grungy rifle when it starts to lose accuracy.

Do you wash your car every time you drive it? Do you change your oil every time you drive? There is a frequency that needs to be observed with any maintenance item. I was using a 1:1 ratio (shoot:clean) but these guys who are experienced with this weapon are saying that it was too frequent. Note that I clean my Keltec P32 at a 1:10 ratio (clean it a hell of a lot more than I actually shoot it). It is used for a different purpose and gets dirty in a different way. I don't think there is any way to compare the two. I'm 10 minutes away from leaving the house to go to the range now. We are going to pump 500 rounds through the thing and then go grab lunch (also going to buy a new bass guitar <G>). When I get back home I'll put the gun up. Maybe I'll clean it next month, maybe not. But I'm sure it will work just fine. If not, I'll go buy another one (costs less money for a new gun than it does for the ammo to shoot in it). I guess you could almost call the gun disposable.

Last time I went shooting was over the summer on my local Cheeze-n-Wine Techday Picnic / Shootout when I took my brothers AR-15. Only pumped 40 rounds through the rifle that afternoon, then promptly broke it down to clean and oil the entire weapon.

Hardly had anything inside it aside oil, but we cleaned it anyway because it isn't fired very often. My brother pointed out the fact that it wasn't absolutely necessary since it wasn't like a full range day or anything, but that was in June or July of 2009 and it hasn't been shot again since.

http://www.jugrnot.com/l_bd11ad8d92e...8a9541fa50.jpg
That Squirrel was FUCKED!


First time I actually picked up the PK380 was two weekends ago at a gunshow, and I pretty much decided then I wanted it. Got lucky even finding it in stock at a local store, was the very last one they had. Seems to be a pretty popular pistol from all accounts I've seen on the interwebz.

Damn you for selling all your 380 rounds!

Plan was to go shooting this weekend, but the range we were gonna hit up is outdoors and the weather has just turned to complete shit. 38 degree day outside and we've had snowflakes about twice the size of a quarter falling, then turned to a pretty heavy rain. Damn the luck, maybe we can find an opening at the bullet hole for some indoor action, but that place is pretty well booked on weekends.

Well, we didn't shoot for shit but I did get my bass:

http://www.lightweightmiata.com/misc/b--------

Never really did post any updates or thoughts on this pistol I bought. Well I have less than 200 rounds through it, decided to carry it and never ran shit ammo through it.

Saturday was doing some draw and fire practice at a friends place. Can't remember how many I had fired, probably close to 8th or 9th draw after squeezing the trigger I noticed something fell to the ground. Realized when I went to apply the safety it was well..... Missing.....

http://jugrnot.com/IMG_7403.jpg
http://jugrnot.com/IMG_7404.jpg

I've had zero problems with this pistol thus far, but now I'm unsure about carrying it anymore....

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Things break for strange reasons. Maybe you should carry it all the time now because the ONE part that will break in the first 50 years of use has already broken. Who knows? I would guess that what you saw wasn't normal - just a fluke.

Well two things run through my mind.

It still fires, obviously. Continued with my practice and pretended it was a glock with an even worse double action trigger pull. ;)

Second I've been bouncing around the idea of a Keltec PF9. I was really digging that P3AT you've got but kinda want something a little nastier in my pocket than a 380..

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...+broken+safety

I carry a Keltec P32 for concealment not the P3AT (not sure if you were talking about me with the 380). The 32 gives one more round, has a last round slide lock open and is more reliable than the 380. No, it is not a .45ACP but when I put a red dot on your chest you will stop trying to take my parking space or trying to go through the express lane with 14 items.

Dude I never thought of using my P3AT as a Walmart line enforcer.

Other then the safety breaking how do you like the Walther? Also have you called Walther to ask about it?

I keep thinking "i want to get a pistol, take it to a range, have fun with it, carry it, etc" And then I think about how much work it is to clean the SOB all the damned time. I've spent way too many hours with M16s and M4s broken down in front of me to want to do that shit anymore.

Maybe I'll pass.

P32... P3AT.. same damn thing. ;) I was considering the P3AT until I held the PF9!

The KelTec EN4SR! haha.

Man, TBH, I haven't even really shot it enough to give a thorough review... I remove it from the holster, point, click, it fires. Ran a box of the shittiest brass ammo (PMC?) through it the very first time at the range, 50 rounds. Had one FTE and one FTF. Discovered my HE-Man grip on the thing was sucking all the life from the blowback and stovepiped one round. A few shots later the slide didn't fully seat so the firing pin didn't hit the primer hard enough to fire. Since those two rounds I've shot at least another 100 through without a single problem.

I love the feel of it in my hand, most pistols just don't give me that. Not a very powerful round so you have quick recovery to target and can get multiple rounds down range quickly in a very acceptable group. The range I frequent only has 25 yard pistol area so that's where most of my experience with this pistol is.

Nonsense!!

My PK380 for example.. After I'm done firing it at the range I run a boresnake through it two or three times to remove the big nasty stuff when its fresh. Later, when I feel like it, I'll strip the pistol down and clean / oil it. Takes me 3 minutes to break down and fully clean & lube the thing. Strip it apart takes 10 seconds, run a brush and patches through the barrel takes another 20 seconds, small scrub brush and solvent around the slide and lower frame, drop some oil in the lower frame, oil in the slide action. Run a freshly oiled patch through the barrel, barrel and spring back in the slide, install slide back on frame. Small bit of oil on a fresh rag and wipe the outside of the slide down then remove excess with lint free rag. Insert freshly loaded magazine and back into my holster.

Not trying to get into a pissing match but carry a PF9 around in your shorts pocket while walking around on vacation for a bit and tell me if it was a better choice than a P32/P3AT. Hell, I carry the P32 around in the pocket of my t-shirt.

http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/P-3AT_PF-9.jpg

Whats with everyone here and pussy and expensive calibers. I mean 380's are for little girls. At least go with a 9mm or .40 s&w, both are much cheaper than 380. That's right, i forgot, we all drive miatas. Personally i like the .40, specifically Glock 27, 400 rounds of reloads not a single hiccup.

For some reason Walthers just fit great in my hand. That is the biggest reason I want a PK380.

It is not that I do not like a bigger caliber, it is that a bigger gun is harder to conceal on me. I am a smaller guy who wears lots of light colored T-Shirts. Hiding a 1911 or a Glock is extremely hard during the summer months.

On the flipside my Keltec fits in my front pocket and you cannot tell it is there. So simply the fact that I can carry it anywhere I go makes it a good contender.

I had no issues with only T-shirts.

I'll put my boomstick up against your wussy Glock any day. BUT, I am specifically talking about CCW in my posts. Apples and Oranges...

http://www.lightweightmiata.com/projects/projects09.JPG

I have a Walther P22 that I have put 20,000+ rounds through and I understand what you mean about fitting your hand. It is THE most comfortable gun I have ever held. If anyone copied that shape for a .45 I would scoop one up in a heartbeat just to play around with.

You do know that they have the P9 in a .40. It is very close to the P22.

I have not decided what my next Walther is. There are currently 3 out that I want.

I'm out of the gun business for a while since I just bought another car. I'll fill you guys in on the details after I pick it up (should be a couple of weeks).

I am also out of the gun business, but that more has to do with me being unemployed. I can always dream about the ones I want though.

Stop making things up. :fawk:

Well... I carry a PK380 in a shitty nylon holster IWB with athletic shorts and pants wearing well fitted t-shirts as my daily.. ;) Kind of why I'm looking at something a little smaller, like the PF9. Not saying I'm discounting the p3at completely as a pocket pistol.. Still interested in one of those too!

http://jugrnot.com/IMAG0251.jpg

Don't know how to break this to you man but I don't need no fuckin' glock or "manly" caliber to take care of myself. I don't care how hopped up on PCP someone is, you shoot them in the chest or face it doesn't matter if you're holding a .25acp or .50ae.. They're fucked either way. The smaller the caliber, the smaller the system, the more rounds you can carry.

Caliber doesn't mean shit. Want a real world example? Ever shot a squirrel with a .17hmr? Might as well have been a hand grenade.

This is what keeps the free world free next to my pussy .380 acp.. Just a pussy little .22, amirite?
http://jugrnot.com/IMG_7405.jpg

Btw, I Load my own .380 range rounds for $0.04/round. Whats your 40 caliber cost you to shoot?

I remember the rifle you cut down a couple years ago.. have been thinking about getting one of these for home defense:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/c...uff/PLR003.jpg
:drool: Think I like Keltec's products? :D

I just want to shoot the thing, and when I'm done, put it away until next time.

What I am wearing and where I am going determines what I carry.

Dress slacks and a shirt, I might carry the Ruger LCP w/crimson trace and Cor-Bons. Jeans and a t-shirt, Kimber and Hydro-Shok. Out on a friend's ranch hunting pigs, the GP-100 w/ Remington JHP .357.

A weapon is a tool. Different tools for different applications. Besides, doesn't matter what caliber you're carrying if you can't hit the target...