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Old 02-18-2010, 06:03 AM   #1
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Default Question for the Gun Gurus!

I just bought myself a little Walther Pistol for some Plinking and might carry it one day. While I've been around guns my entire life I am a bit of a when it comes to ammo, and more specifically getting the most for your dollar so I'd like a little advice.

Just spent a few hours googling my model gun and any reviews or results to shooting wolf branded "Performance" ammo to find nobody has been silly(stupid?) enough to use junk ammo in it. Things I've learned, all wolf has steel casings, and most have steel projectiles that are thinly coated with copper jacket. Did however find their "gold" line is actually copper jacketed hollow points and pretty reasonable priced still. In a .380ACP a 50 round box of gold hollow points is $19.00 off the interwebs, vs the 91gr 'bi metal' steel/copper jacketed rounds at $179 for 500 rounds at Cabelas..

Things I've learned; Theory of why spent casings jam in the chambers of guns after firing wolf used to be because of the poly coating on the casing which has been proven false. All accounts I've found the steel casing doesn't expand like a brass would, and 'dirty gas' leaks between the casing and the chamber. One reviewer had an AR15 he fired 200 rounds of wolf through then loaded up some brass cased rounds that promptly became glued into the chamber. After removal the casing was very obviously coated in carbon, but if he shot the wolf and allowed the rifle to cool down none of the brass casing rounds stuck.

Basically I'm curious if anyone has ever used the cheap Russian ammo in their pistol? Any other side effects using it? Just clean the **** out of your gun after firing it? (no, I wouldn't carry a pistol with wolf in it, for the record. )
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:09 AM   #2
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You bought a 380 for plinking? Geez, you have too much money!

I have not used Wolf in my pistol but have used it in my SKS. A lot of people will tell you to stay away from the steel casings and I would probably heed that warning. I know the manufacture of my carry pistol says to not use it (so I don't).

Also, I used to clean all my guns after every time I used them. I only clean them now if I have a problem with them (hasn't happened yet). This includes my .22 rifle which sees 500 rounds a week of the dirtiest, nastiest, cheapest ammo I can find.
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:25 AM   #3
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Which Walther did you pick up?

If you picked up the P22 to plink with I would have to recommend that you use CCI MiniMags as your ammo of choice until you do the mods outlined here.

With you talking about .380 it sounds like you either picked up a PK380 or a PPKS. I have a PPKS and the only not brass casing ammo I have ever used has been blazer. I shot 100 rounds or so and I did not particulary care for it. Overall it just seemed much cheaper made then most bronzed cased ammo that I have used.

Also where are you finding 50 rounds of hollow point for 19$ in stock? Locally I am paying around $20-$30 for 25 rounds of hollow point. For FMJ I usually pay about $20 a box at the local guns stores IF they have it in stock, which is rarely. At the gun show this past weekend I was able to pick up some American Eagle ammo for $17 a box and that was the cheapest I have seen in a year.
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:38 AM   #4
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Ive used wolf in both of my ak's, but then again they are ak's so they shoot anything.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:31 AM   #5
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Got a H&K HK-4. Converts between .22 and .380. Shoot more .22 during these trying times.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #6
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I've put about 5000 rounds of Wolf through my Glock and notice no problems/wear/buildup as long as I clean it each time I use it a few hundred rounds at a time.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:14 AM   #7
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Not an ammo guru by any stretch, but I can parrot what others have already told you by noting that my soon-to-be-step-brother-in-law (who is a deputy) runs pretty much nothing but a combination of Wolf and some other steel-cased cheapies through his AK47 and his SKS. Though of course, as Fireindc noted, both are Soviet-designed guns that are pretty much going to shoot reliably even if completely immersed in sand.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:37 AM   #8
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I only shoot brass casings through my Makarov (.380). Even if the ammo burns clean, I will clean the gun completely even after only firing 5 rounds or wait until after a shooting session. I can imagine it would not have a problem eating up cheap ammo either though. My AK and SKS eat the crap out of Wolf ammo with no problems at all. Even take some of the CHEAPER Russian ammo with no problem. Just make sure the chamber is clean and that the recoil and mag springs are good and you should be fine. Unless there is a flaw in the actual gun, which is not likely for a Walter PPKS...
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:01 PM   #9
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Always clean your weapon after use. The carbon is soft initially and easy to clean, but hardens over time. And the by-products of combustion can cause problems if left on surfaces for long periods of time (facilitates rust/corrosion). Clean and re-oil to replace oil film burned off/contaminated from use.

I shoot cheap Russian ammo and better domestic ammo and there is a large difference in the amount of smoke and carbon between the two. If you are plinking and cleaning afterward then no harm is done. But I would never use a gun and not clean and re-oil it afterward. That is an irresponsible way to treat your weapon.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:48 PM   #10
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Well Cool, Thanks for the feedback!

I wanted to go with the 380 for a dual purpose type of deal, something that I could actually carry one day but wasn't over the top when it comes to ammo costs. .380 is kind of hard to find around here, but I've found a ton of places on the interwebs and what I can find is a hell of a lot cheaper than .45acp is.



Several reasons I went with a PK380. The fitment in my hand is absolutely fantastic -- Really can't say enough good things about how it feels. During my shopping I handled about 150 different pistols and most of them I just flat didn't like. I know two people who use Walther P22s for plinking and I've run about 2000 rounds through each, one is a standard length barrel and the other is the 4" extended (or whatever it is..) That is one of the funnest and cheapest to fire little pistols I've ever seen!

Cabelas has Wolf branded ammo on their website, and sometime I might go into the store and buy a smaller box if I can. From what it looks like in the picture they show, it has a 'bi metal case' and 'full metal jacket' slug but according to Wolf's site it should be a steel casing and 'bi metal jacket' projectile. If I can find a cheap box of 25 rounds or so I'll disassemble one and see if they're really total copper jacketed rounds. Also notice the casing in the pictures look brass?


Cabela's -- Wolf Bulk .380 Auto Ammunition

Far as the JHP rounds for 20$ per box/50 I found here: Wolf Gold Centerfire Ammunition G380HP1, 380 ACP, Jacketed Hollow Point, 94 GR, 952 fps, 50 Rd/bx But just now noticed its 'out of stock.' When I get more time later I'll browse around and see if I can find a supplier that stocks those.

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Old 02-18-2010, 02:05 PM   #11
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Could be that the rounds in the picture of the Wolf Gold brand?
"High quality and afordable brass case ammunition with exacting power, precision and long range accuracy built into each round. Premium components ensure excellent performance and reliability. WOLF Gold is available in a wide variety of loads for tactical, hunting and collectible firearms."
Wrong box for it, though...



Might just be that not every webpage designer is an ammo expert...
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #12
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Just buy a box and shoot it, see how it works. Modern ammo isn't corrosive, but you still need to clean your gun after use. I mean what's the worst that could happen, your gun jams with it? The only way to tell is to actually try it since all guns are different. I used to shoot wolf 9mm out of my sig P226 all the time, probably around 100 rounds a week if not more. Never had a single jam or misfire. Oh yea btw, steel cases expand during firing, they are just a lot more elsatic than brass cases and snap back pretty close to original size. A lot of the reason guns won't work with them is the much increased bolt thrust as the case doesn't stick to the chamber walls like brass would.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:35 PM   #13
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Nice PK380. Let me know how you like it after a few weeks of shooting it. I also love the way that it feels in my hand and have seriously thought about picking it up. Unfortunately I do not need another .380 carry gun right now.

Good luck on finding .380 ammo for it. Looking on line you usually find a lot of places that claim to have it, but really are out of stock. The best luck I have had is going to the local gun stores often and praying that they have ammo in stock. Also check out gun shows for it. Like I said i found an independent guy that was selling American Eagle ammo for $17 a box and that has been the best I have found in a long time. Also for Hollow Point I would recommend that you pick up several different types and see what shoot best out of your weapon.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Always clean your weapon after use. The carbon is soft initially and easy to clean, but hardens over time. And the by-products of combustion can cause problems if left on surfaces for long periods of time (facilitates rust/corrosion). Clean and re-oil to replace oil film burned off/contaminated from use.
This! Might be time consuming for SOME long rifles (I own a few of these), but totally worth it in the longevity of the gun and parts. Handguns are pretty simple for the most part.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:25 PM   #15
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Don't buy ammo from Cabelas when The Sportsman's Guide is so much cheaper ($30 less per 500 rds.)

They have performance ammo for that Walther at good prices as well.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
But I would never use a gun and not clean and re-oil it afterward. That is an irresponsible way to treat your weapon.
The guys on my 10/22 said I was nuts for cleaning it each time. Some quotes when I said I clean mine after every time I shot it:

There are guns that HAVE to be cleaned every time you shoot them or they start to malfunction. The 10/22 isn't one of them....

I bet its been 3-4 years since I cleaned my 10-22 . I was doing a barrel test yesterday and my pard was changing out barrels on my rifle while I evaluated the targets and mentioned it looked pretty bad . I looked in the rifle and there was a bunch of gray goop and some gritty looking crap . The rifle is still shooting into the .3's off a crappy rest so I left it the Hell alone .

I used to do as you do, then I got older and wised up. Wipe it down with oil to prevent rust, clean it when it starts to malfunction or accuracy drops off. Anything more and you're ''playing with it''!

I clean my 22s regularly..........about once a year. I do wipe the outside off with an oily rag before they go in the safe, but just don't really clean them very often.

I try to clean mine faithfully, every February 29th. If I happen to forget it, I'll just wait for the next regularly scheduled cleaning.

i never really clean a 10/22 until it stops firing or i see a massive amount of "grit" in the receiver. youre overdoing it

My handguns I clean faithfully my .22 just a nice wipe down with a lightly oiled rag and in the safe they go
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
The fitment in my hand is absolutely fantastic -- Really can't say enough good things about how it feels.
Yes, I love the way my Walther P22 feels in my hand (looks the same as your 380). I wanted to look at the 380 version the other day and they said they didn't have any. I guess I shouldn't have sold all of the 6000 rounds of .380 I had sitting here. I did make over $1000 on it though. I pretty much gave away the last ten boxes I had because I didn't want to mess with the shipping and stuff any longer.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:55 PM   #18
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Eh, most .22 ammo is pretty frickin' dirty, especially the cheap stuff. I don't do a full takedown and cleaning after every shoot, but I definitely clean the grime out of the chamber, off the extractor, and I make sure the bolt or slide cycles freely.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:53 AM   #19
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Ive heard that steel casings will ruin an AR receiver within a few thousand rounds. That and the ammo isn't reloadable. If it shoots fine in the gun, id run it.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
The guys on my 10/22 said I was nuts for cleaning it each time. Some quotes when I said I clean mine after every time I shot it:


clean it when it starts to malfunction or accuracy drops off.

That's like waiting to change the oil and filter in your car when the rod bearings start knocking. What dumbasses. I guess they have never shot competitively. You want the inside of your barrel to be as close to exactly the same every time as possible. It is amazing to me that "grit and goop" in the barrel is acceptable to anyone. It is frankly just laziness and lack of proper training and discipline that leads to behavior like that. Mechanical empathy wouldn't let me do it.
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