Reloading Ammo
01-07-2017, 06:04 PM
#1
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Reloading Ammo
With all the gun threads here, surely there are some of you out there reloading. I've been sitting on some equipment for a while, and have finally gotten tired enough of buying ammo that I'm going to get started with it. Going to start with .45 auto and move to .223. There is a place locally that polymer coats lead slugs, so I'm currently just waiting until he gets the next batch finished.
Breakdown of where I'm starting:
.45 auto - 230gr Polymer coated lead slugs, AA#5, CCI Primers,
.223 - 55gr Hornady FMJ Boat-Tail, Hogdon Varget, CCI Primers.
(I doubt this table as going to work, as this press has no compounding leverage. It was an idea though)
Breakdown of where I'm starting:
.45 auto - 230gr Polymer coated lead slugs, AA#5, CCI Primers,
.223 - 55gr Hornady FMJ Boat-Tail, Hogdon Varget, CCI Primers.
(I doubt this table as going to work, as this press has no compounding leverage. It was an idea though)
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01-07-2017, 10:21 PM
#3
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There was a string of posts on the gun thread with some information that might be useful for you. I believe the conversation started around here: https://www.miataturbo.net/insert-bs...8/#post1192156
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01-09-2017, 11:48 AM
#4
For re-sizing short straight-walled cartridges (ie, pistol brass), your current press will be fine. Bullet seating required very little actual force. But what you've got there will be pretty slow. In a few weeks after you've done a couple hundred rounds, step up to a cheap progressive press... Lee Classic Turret or Hornday Lock&Load if funds allow.
For the .45, how are you going to flare the case mouths? With those moly coated bullets, if the mouth isn't flared, I see shaving off the moly during the seating push... could be OK depending on the shape of the base of the bullet, but with no flare, could be an issue. Of course if you flare, you need to un-flare (crimp) as a final stage, which adds time to process. If you have no ability to flare, then a slight chamfer on the inside of each case will help with shaving if that indeed becomes an issue.
This is a good addition to your kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-05001...deburring+tool
Also, YOU MUST LUBE RIFLE BRASS... I'm a huge fan of the Dillon Case Lube. It's just aloe suspended in an alcohol solution. There are others, but you have to use it or you will get a stuck case. Lots of YT videos on how to remove stuck cases... all of them are a pain in the ***, so just use lube and you'll never have to find out. If you use a carbide expander, you don't need to lube the inside of rifle cases. And also very realistically, for plinking ammo, you don't need to lube the insides of cases because neck tension isn't going to be affected enough at plinking distances.
1lb of powder will get you 900'ish rds of .45acp... I think 8.0gr of powder for a 230gr lead bullet.
And you'll probably find something between 24-26gr of Varget works for 55gr .223... no need to load higher for plinking ammo.
For the .45, how are you going to flare the case mouths? With those moly coated bullets, if the mouth isn't flared, I see shaving off the moly during the seating push... could be OK depending on the shape of the base of the bullet, but with no flare, could be an issue. Of course if you flare, you need to un-flare (crimp) as a final stage, which adds time to process. If you have no ability to flare, then a slight chamfer on the inside of each case will help with shaving if that indeed becomes an issue.
This is a good addition to your kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-05001...deburring+tool
Also, YOU MUST LUBE RIFLE BRASS... I'm a huge fan of the Dillon Case Lube. It's just aloe suspended in an alcohol solution. There are others, but you have to use it or you will get a stuck case. Lots of YT videos on how to remove stuck cases... all of them are a pain in the ***, so just use lube and you'll never have to find out. If you use a carbide expander, you don't need to lube the inside of rifle cases. And also very realistically, for plinking ammo, you don't need to lube the insides of cases because neck tension isn't going to be affected enough at plinking distances.
1lb of powder will get you 900'ish rds of .45acp... I think 8.0gr of powder for a 230gr lead bullet.
And you'll probably find something between 24-26gr of Varget works for 55gr .223... no need to load higher for plinking ammo.
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01-09-2017, 01:48 PM
#5
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For re-sizing short straight-walled cartridges (ie, pistol brass), your current press will be fine. Bullet seating required very little actual force. But what you've got there will be pretty slow. In a few weeks after you've done a couple hundred rounds, step up to a cheap progressive press... Lee Classic Turret or Hornday Lock&Load if funds allow.
For the .45, how are you going to flare the case mouths? With those moly coated bullets, if the mouth isn't flared, I see shaving off the moly during the seating push... could be OK depending on the shape of the base of the bullet, but with no flare, could be an issue. Of course if you flare, you need to un-flare (crimp) as a final stage, which adds time to process. If you have no ability to flare, then a slight chamfer on the inside of each case will help with shaving if that indeed becomes an issue.
This is a good addition to your kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-05001...deburring+tool
Also, YOU MUST LUBE RIFLE BRASS... I'm a huge fan of the Dillon Case Lube. It's just aloe suspended in an alcohol solution. There are others, but you have to use it or you will get a stuck case. Lots of YT videos on how to remove stuck cases... all of them are a pain in the ***, so just use lube and you'll never have to find out. If you use a carbide expander, you don't need to lube the inside of rifle cases. And also very realistically, for plinking ammo, you don't need to lube the insides of cases because neck tension isn't going to be affected enough at plinking distances.
1lb of powder will get you 900'ish rds of .45acp... I think 8.0gr of powder for a 230gr lead bullet.
And you'll probably find something between 24-26gr of Varget works for 55gr .223... no need to load higher for plinking ammo.
For the .45, how are you going to flare the case mouths? With those moly coated bullets, if the mouth isn't flared, I see shaving off the moly during the seating push... could be OK depending on the shape of the base of the bullet, but with no flare, could be an issue. Of course if you flare, you need to un-flare (crimp) as a final stage, which adds time to process. If you have no ability to flare, then a slight chamfer on the inside of each case will help with shaving if that indeed becomes an issue.
This is a good addition to your kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-05001...deburring+tool
Also, YOU MUST LUBE RIFLE BRASS... I'm a huge fan of the Dillon Case Lube. It's just aloe suspended in an alcohol solution. There are others, but you have to use it or you will get a stuck case. Lots of YT videos on how to remove stuck cases... all of them are a pain in the ***, so just use lube and you'll never have to find out. If you use a carbide expander, you don't need to lube the inside of rifle cases. And also very realistically, for plinking ammo, you don't need to lube the insides of cases because neck tension isn't going to be affected enough at plinking distances.
1lb of powder will get you 900'ish rds of .45acp... I think 8.0gr of powder for a 230gr lead bullet.
And you'll probably find something between 24-26gr of Varget works for 55gr .223... no need to load higher for plinking ammo.
https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision...ords=flare+die
Appreciate the advice on the case lube. The set of dies I was looking at for 223 advertise that they don't require case lube, but I'll probably take your advice and at least put it on the outsides.
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01-09-2017, 04:53 PM
#6
You always lube necked cases... it increases the lifespan of the case because they don't get worked as hard and there's very little chance of a stuck case. You really don't have to worry about shooting out a piece of pistol brass... you can expect 20+ reloads on most pistol brass with no sweat. You'll wear out primer pockets before you get any stretch or cracking. Of course case prep is important and you don't want to get into the habit of assuming anything when it comes to your brass. Since you're hand-seating primers, you'll get a good feel and look at every single piece of brass... which is something progressive reloaders don't necessarily afford you the luxury of since time is on the table. I'll be honest... I really don't pay too much attention to pistol brass or do any close inspecting. After it comes out of the tumbler, I'll spread it out on the table on a towel and roll them around to get the last of the walnut dust off, and I look at them in batches... I might have tossed half a dozen that I noticed had a crack or some other deformation in the 10k rounds I've loaded. But I figure between picking them up, sorting by caliber, throwing them in the tumbler, sorting them after tumbling, inserting into the press, etc... all the way to actually picking them up and loading them... if there was something wrong, I'd notice.
Rifle brass gets a closer look. Some guys don't but I do... all my plinking rifle brass in .223 and .308 gets full-length resized and trimmed... and I throw about every 10th piece in the case gauge. I reload 100 pieces at a time (then I have to refill the primer tube), and no more than 300 pieces in a sitting. Usually when loading rifle brass, I get a little bored after about 200rds and force myself to stop. I've shot about 5000rds of my own .223 reloads without a single issue. I've had one 9mm squib that didn't cycle the action and the bullet got stuck about 1" into the barrel... a solid reminder to always check for a barrel obstruction if something doesn't feel right.
With my light plinking loads, 24.0 ARComp gets me 2650fps'ish and I expect 10 reloads before brass issues. I track my brass use pretty carefully in 1000rd lots and I always take the ammo can with one lot and the spent bucket it goes together so I don't end up with 100pieces of brass somewhere and I don't know whether it's once-fired or on it's 5th. In any case, if I hit 10 reloads, I'll toss'em in the recycle and not look back. Once fired Lake City is $33/1000 around here, so with 10 reloads is 3/10ths of a penny per round. It's almost free... a primer costs me 3 cents/round, so primers are 9x more expensive than brass. Plus, whenever I shoot, I always bring back way more brass than I spend. And none of my buddies reloads... they all have standing orders to save all their brass regardless of caliber.
Many setups flare the case mouth when dropping powder... there is an insert in the powder measure that flares the case as it drops powder. It take very little force to flare... you're talking about brass, not titanium. Since you're manually pouring, you'll need an "expander die" to flare the case mouth if you find you need one. I suspect you will... however, you could try chamfering the inside of the lip of the brass a pinch to see if those particular bullets, with that particular thickness of moly, needs more than a small chamfer to keep from stripping the moly. It's another WHOLE STEP to flare, and then ANOTHER WHOLE STEP to crimp at the end... this is why a progressive or turret press is so huge for your time.
Youtube is huge for figuring all this out... just search "expander die" and there's like 40 good vids.
Rifle brass gets a closer look. Some guys don't but I do... all my plinking rifle brass in .223 and .308 gets full-length resized and trimmed... and I throw about every 10th piece in the case gauge. I reload 100 pieces at a time (then I have to refill the primer tube), and no more than 300 pieces in a sitting. Usually when loading rifle brass, I get a little bored after about 200rds and force myself to stop. I've shot about 5000rds of my own .223 reloads without a single issue. I've had one 9mm squib that didn't cycle the action and the bullet got stuck about 1" into the barrel... a solid reminder to always check for a barrel obstruction if something doesn't feel right.
With my light plinking loads, 24.0 ARComp gets me 2650fps'ish and I expect 10 reloads before brass issues. I track my brass use pretty carefully in 1000rd lots and I always take the ammo can with one lot and the spent bucket it goes together so I don't end up with 100pieces of brass somewhere and I don't know whether it's once-fired or on it's 5th. In any case, if I hit 10 reloads, I'll toss'em in the recycle and not look back. Once fired Lake City is $33/1000 around here, so with 10 reloads is 3/10ths of a penny per round. It's almost free... a primer costs me 3 cents/round, so primers are 9x more expensive than brass. Plus, whenever I shoot, I always bring back way more brass than I spend. And none of my buddies reloads... they all have standing orders to save all their brass regardless of caliber.
Many setups flare the case mouth when dropping powder... there is an insert in the powder measure that flares the case as it drops powder. It take very little force to flare... you're talking about brass, not titanium. Since you're manually pouring, you'll need an "expander die" to flare the case mouth if you find you need one. I suspect you will... however, you could try chamfering the inside of the lip of the brass a pinch to see if those particular bullets, with that particular thickness of moly, needs more than a small chamfer to keep from stripping the moly. It's another WHOLE STEP to flare, and then ANOTHER WHOLE STEP to crimp at the end... this is why a progressive or turret press is so huge for your time.
Youtube is huge for figuring all this out... just search "expander die" and there's like 40 good vids.
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01-09-2017, 05:42 PM
#7
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A decent and cheap table I use is the harbor freight wood woorkbench.
Wood Workbench - 60" Wood Workbench w/ 4 Drawers
Just grab a 20% of coupon from any car magazine and you are good to go. I have the press bolted to a board and the bolted the board to the desk to avoid drilling holes.
https://goo.gl/photos/7AuKaARAFr8ZagzMA
https://goo.gl/photos/fFsBRn3XVmv9ymHu5
That Lee die set should have the flaring die included in it. Just adds an extra step in the process but it's a must. Like stated above, it's a low effort event so it goes pretty quick. That little flare makes it nice too because when you drop a bullet in, there is just enough of a friction fit to keep it there and it will press right in nice and straight.
Another tip, use the ammo trays that you would get from a box of factory ammo to use as loading blocks, place your cases in them between steps. Once the cases have been sized & deprimed, primed and flared, take the 50 processed cases in a tray and fill each case that way (fill, slide over to the next, fill, slide over to the next), instead of picking each case up and putting it to the powder dropper 1 by 1.
Again, lube all necked cases... if not you're gonna have a bad time... I roll each case on a pad with some RCBS case lube on it before each size and deprime. Don't use too much lube or you may dent the case because the lube has nowhere to go.
Chamfer and debur your rifle cases, comes in handy when using flat base bullets. Only really need to do it on once fired cases or after you have trimmed a case.
Empty Jiff jars make good storage/range containers.
If you are shooting a semi auto 223, full length sizing is pretty much required to chamber reliably. If you are shooting a bolt action, you can get a neck sizer. This will allow you to keep your brass alot longer since just the neck is getting sized back down and you aren't stressing the whole case.
I've been loading on a single stage for about 4 years now. Yeah, it would be nice to hammer out a **** load of rounds in a quarter of the time if I had a progressive press, but I like handling each round multiple times in the process. It adds a little extra precaution when loading. And once you get into a rhythm and find your groove, things will get quicker.
Andy
Wood Workbench - 60" Wood Workbench w/ 4 Drawers
Just grab a 20% of coupon from any car magazine and you are good to go. I have the press bolted to a board and the bolted the board to the desk to avoid drilling holes.
https://goo.gl/photos/7AuKaARAFr8ZagzMA
https://goo.gl/photos/fFsBRn3XVmv9ymHu5
That Lee die set should have the flaring die included in it. Just adds an extra step in the process but it's a must. Like stated above, it's a low effort event so it goes pretty quick. That little flare makes it nice too because when you drop a bullet in, there is just enough of a friction fit to keep it there and it will press right in nice and straight.
Another tip, use the ammo trays that you would get from a box of factory ammo to use as loading blocks, place your cases in them between steps. Once the cases have been sized & deprimed, primed and flared, take the 50 processed cases in a tray and fill each case that way (fill, slide over to the next, fill, slide over to the next), instead of picking each case up and putting it to the powder dropper 1 by 1.
Again, lube all necked cases... if not you're gonna have a bad time... I roll each case on a pad with some RCBS case lube on it before each size and deprime. Don't use too much lube or you may dent the case because the lube has nowhere to go.
Chamfer and debur your rifle cases, comes in handy when using flat base bullets. Only really need to do it on once fired cases or after you have trimmed a case.
Empty Jiff jars make good storage/range containers.
If you are shooting a semi auto 223, full length sizing is pretty much required to chamber reliably. If you are shooting a bolt action, you can get a neck sizer. This will allow you to keep your brass alot longer since just the neck is getting sized back down and you aren't stressing the whole case.
I've been loading on a single stage for about 4 years now. Yeah, it would be nice to hammer out a **** load of rounds in a quarter of the time if I had a progressive press, but I like handling each round multiple times in the process. It adds a little extra precaution when loading. And once you get into a rhythm and find your groove, things will get quicker.
Andy
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01-09-2017, 11:03 PM
#8
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A decent and cheap table I use is the harbor freight wood woorkbench.
Wood Workbench - 60" Wood Workbench w/ 4 Drawers
Just grab a 20% of coupon from any car magazine and you are good to go. I have the press bolted to a board and the bolted the board to the desk to avoid drilling holes.
https://goo.gl/photos/7AuKaARAFr8ZagzMA
https://goo.gl/photos/fFsBRn3XVmv9ymHu5
That Lee die set should have the flaring die included in it. Just adds an extra step in the process but it's a must. Like stated above, it's a low effort event so it goes pretty quick. That little flare makes it nice too because when you drop a bullet in, there is just enough of a friction fit to keep it there and it will press right in nice and straight.
Another tip, use the ammo trays that you would get from a box of factory ammo to use as loading blocks, place your cases in them between steps. Once the cases have been sized & deprimed, primed and flared, take the 50 processed cases in a tray and fill each case that way (fill, slide over to the next, fill, slide over to the next), instead of picking each case up and putting it to the powder dropper 1 by 1.
Again, lube all necked cases... if not you're gonna have a bad time... I roll each case on a pad with some RCBS case lube on it before each size and deprime. Don't use too much lube or you may dent the case because the lube has nowhere to go.
Chamfer and debur your rifle cases, comes in handy when using flat base bullets. Only really need to do it on once fired cases or after you have trimmed a case.
Empty Jiff jars make good storage/range containers.
If you are shooting a semi auto 223, full length sizing is pretty much required to chamber reliably. If you are shooting a bolt action, you can get a neck sizer. This will allow you to keep your brass alot longer since just the neck is getting sized back down and you aren't stressing the whole case.
I've been loading on a single stage for about 4 years now. Yeah, it would be nice to hammer out a **** load of rounds in a quarter of the time if I had a progressive press, but I like handling each round multiple times in the process. It adds a little extra precaution when loading. And once you get into a rhythm and find your groove, things will get quicker.
Andy
Wood Workbench - 60" Wood Workbench w/ 4 Drawers
Just grab a 20% of coupon from any car magazine and you are good to go. I have the press bolted to a board and the bolted the board to the desk to avoid drilling holes.
https://goo.gl/photos/7AuKaARAFr8ZagzMA
https://goo.gl/photos/fFsBRn3XVmv9ymHu5
That Lee die set should have the flaring die included in it. Just adds an extra step in the process but it's a must. Like stated above, it's a low effort event so it goes pretty quick. That little flare makes it nice too because when you drop a bullet in, there is just enough of a friction fit to keep it there and it will press right in nice and straight.
Another tip, use the ammo trays that you would get from a box of factory ammo to use as loading blocks, place your cases in them between steps. Once the cases have been sized & deprimed, primed and flared, take the 50 processed cases in a tray and fill each case that way (fill, slide over to the next, fill, slide over to the next), instead of picking each case up and putting it to the powder dropper 1 by 1.
Again, lube all necked cases... if not you're gonna have a bad time... I roll each case on a pad with some RCBS case lube on it before each size and deprime. Don't use too much lube or you may dent the case because the lube has nowhere to go.
Chamfer and debur your rifle cases, comes in handy when using flat base bullets. Only really need to do it on once fired cases or after you have trimmed a case.
Empty Jiff jars make good storage/range containers.
If you are shooting a semi auto 223, full length sizing is pretty much required to chamber reliably. If you are shooting a bolt action, you can get a neck sizer. This will allow you to keep your brass alot longer since just the neck is getting sized back down and you aren't stressing the whole case.
I've been loading on a single stage for about 4 years now. Yeah, it would be nice to hammer out a **** load of rounds in a quarter of the time if I had a progressive press, but I like handling each round multiple times in the process. It adds a little extra precaution when loading. And once you get into a rhythm and find your groove, things will get quicker.
Andy
The lee set for my 45acp does have a flaring die now that I look at it. It advertises it's designed to have powder flow through it, but I'd probably just keep things the way I have it and rotate the turret once for powder.
I have several staging trays someone gave me that I plan on using to keep loading operations separated. I do keep ammo boxes to put reloads in though. I'll have to start saving my peanut butter jars though.
Your single stage press is much nicer than mine
.45acp dies. I currently plan on using all 4 operations, every time.
So for .223 that I plan on shooting semi-auto, are you saying I might as well just buy the three die set because I will always want to use die 1 instead of die 2? Or (for someone that doesn't shoot more than 60 rounds or so at a time and isn't super worried about the extra step) is it worth using all four dies every time to ensure a more accurate neck sizing?
Thinking out loud here, I should also check out the case trimmer I have a little closer. She looked pretty rough last time I took her out of the box. A lot of this reloading equipment is stuff that was given to me by a family friend, so I'm still sort of sorting through what all I have.
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01-10-2017, 07:35 AM
#9
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For the pistol set, I don't use the powder thru die with the little yellow scooper thingy. I just use that die for the flaring. I like the consistency of the powder thrower so I prefer that. And your load may not use the exact amount of powder that the yellow scooper contains.
For the .223, just stick with your full length sizer. That and the seater die will really be all you need, as the seater die can be adjusted to crimp and seat at the same time. Some guys love the factory crimp die, I've tried it but am not convinced it's necessary for the average joe. Crimping is a good practice on magazine fed rifles. The recoil can cause the rounds to shift forward in the mag, impacting the bullet tip and seating it deeper if there is no crimp to hold it.
I recommend the RCBS 2 die set for rifle, solid and inexpensive. And replacement parts are usually available at Bass Pro or Gander Mountain. (depriming needles, shell holders, etc.)
For the .223, just stick with your full length sizer. That and the seater die will really be all you need, as the seater die can be adjusted to crimp and seat at the same time. Some guys love the factory crimp die, I've tried it but am not convinced it's necessary for the average joe. Crimping is a good practice on magazine fed rifles. The recoil can cause the rounds to shift forward in the mag, impacting the bullet tip and seating it deeper if there is no crimp to hold it.
I recommend the RCBS 2 die set for rifle, solid and inexpensive. And replacement parts are usually available at Bass Pro or Gander Mountain. (depriming needles, shell holders, etc.)
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01-10-2017, 10:20 AM
#11
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For the pistol set, I don't use the powder thru die with the little yellow scooper thingy. I just use that die for the flaring. I like the consistency of the powder thrower so I prefer that. And your load may not use the exact amount of powder that the yellow scooper contains.
For the .223, just stick with your full length sizer. That and the seater die will really be all you need, as the seater die can be adjusted to crimp and seat at the same time. Some guys love the factory crimp die, I've tried it but am not convinced it's necessary for the average joe. Crimping is a good practice on magazine fed rifles. The recoil can cause the rounds to shift forward in the mag, impacting the bullet tip and seating it deeper if there is no crimp to hold it.
I recommend the RCBS 2 die set for rifle, solid and inexpensive. And replacement parts are usually available at Bass Pro or Gander Mountain. (depriming needles, shell holders, etc.)
For the .223, just stick with your full length sizer. That and the seater die will really be all you need, as the seater die can be adjusted to crimp and seat at the same time. Some guys love the factory crimp die, I've tried it but am not convinced it's necessary for the average joe. Crimping is a good practice on magazine fed rifles. The recoil can cause the rounds to shift forward in the mag, impacting the bullet tip and seating it deeper if there is no crimp to hold it.
I recommend the RCBS 2 die set for rifle, solid and inexpensive. And replacement parts are usually available at Bass Pro or Gander Mountain. (depriming needles, shell holders, etc.)
I'll look in to the RCBS set.
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01-10-2017, 04:44 PM
#12
Don't overthink your plinking .223 ammo if it's literally just ammo to go shoot at the range or hit steel. Even for a complete novice, it'd be tough to make bad ammo. You might make ammo that isn't tuned specifically to your gun, but you also need to keep your initial move into the whole reloading thing as simple as possible. As long as the loads are consistent, safe, and use quality consumables, you will be making quality ammo.
I'll say it again... my "go-to" load looks like this:
Lake City Brass (anywhere from 1-9 firings)
Any non-magnum small rifle primer... (Wolf is cheapest in these parts)
55gr FMJ (Have used Hornady, RMR, and Armscor)... they all shoot the same
24.0 gr ARComp powder
Process (assuming the primer pockets have already been swaged):
1) Dry tumble in crushed walnut shell lizard bedding (with a shot of NuFinish car polish)
2) Lube and full-length resize / deprime
3) Trim (Dillon power case trimmer) to 1.750"
3) Dry tumble to remove lube and give a good-game to the primer pocket
4) Prime / Powder / Bullet Seat to mag length (2.260")
I insist upon trimming every round every time, and I like keeping primer pockets clean because a clean hole is better for everybody. I insist on trimming every round because I might accidentally pick up a piece of one-fired out of an M249 and it gets in with my 5th fired brass... better safe than face blown off because I pinched a case mouth up in the chamber. Plus, It's not really "more time" because my time is free and unlimited after the kids go to sleep.
Assuming you've got a way to trim... for .223, you really only need 2 dies... a full-length sizer and a bullet seating die. I poop on crimping.
You can read article after post after blog after memoir after blah blah... and never figure out if crimping is actually needed. Mil-spec rounds come crimped because it's part of the spec... and because they might be loaded into a dozen different magazines and banged around through how many full-auto bursts over the course of decades... and finally get fired. Some commercial rounds come crimped because because. I have never seen a difference of any kind from crimping or not. Shooting semi-auto out of PMAGs... I can't imagine how much force I'd need to slap-seat a bullet deeper while it's inside the magazine considering the force needed to seat it on the press. Granted, bullet seating doesn't require a lot of force on the press, but then again, a modern press gives anywhere from 25-30:1... 5lbs of pull is 150lbs on the ram. Plus, in order to get consistent crimps, every single piece of brass needs to be the exact same length. With some brass undercrimped and some overcrimped, you're ******* with muzzle velocity and affecting accuracy. Certainly not enough to notice at shorter ranges maybe, but every little bit adds up. A 1/10th too heavy charge, a light crimp, a bullet that's 1/10th light on the lead... you might see 200fps variations... which isn't cool even if you're just ringing steel at 200yds.
I actually tested this once just because. I took a loaded round and sharpied it all black and loaded it into a magazine. Then I very carefully did a 29rd mag-dump... and another... and another. 3 mags worth and it was still 2.260. I don't crimp rifle brass... but that's just me.
ADVICE: absolutely get yourself a couple extra depriming pins and have them handy... you will break one (or 5) eventually.
I'll say it again... my "go-to" load looks like this:
Lake City Brass (anywhere from 1-9 firings)
Any non-magnum small rifle primer... (Wolf is cheapest in these parts)
55gr FMJ (Have used Hornady, RMR, and Armscor)... they all shoot the same
24.0 gr ARComp powder
Process (assuming the primer pockets have already been swaged):
1) Dry tumble in crushed walnut shell lizard bedding (with a shot of NuFinish car polish)
2) Lube and full-length resize / deprime
3) Trim (Dillon power case trimmer) to 1.750"
3) Dry tumble to remove lube and give a good-game to the primer pocket
4) Prime / Powder / Bullet Seat to mag length (2.260")
I insist upon trimming every round every time, and I like keeping primer pockets clean because a clean hole is better for everybody. I insist on trimming every round because I might accidentally pick up a piece of one-fired out of an M249 and it gets in with my 5th fired brass... better safe than face blown off because I pinched a case mouth up in the chamber. Plus, It's not really "more time" because my time is free and unlimited after the kids go to sleep.
Assuming you've got a way to trim... for .223, you really only need 2 dies... a full-length sizer and a bullet seating die. I poop on crimping.
You can read article after post after blog after memoir after blah blah... and never figure out if crimping is actually needed. Mil-spec rounds come crimped because it's part of the spec... and because they might be loaded into a dozen different magazines and banged around through how many full-auto bursts over the course of decades... and finally get fired. Some commercial rounds come crimped because because. I have never seen a difference of any kind from crimping or not. Shooting semi-auto out of PMAGs... I can't imagine how much force I'd need to slap-seat a bullet deeper while it's inside the magazine considering the force needed to seat it on the press. Granted, bullet seating doesn't require a lot of force on the press, but then again, a modern press gives anywhere from 25-30:1... 5lbs of pull is 150lbs on the ram. Plus, in order to get consistent crimps, every single piece of brass needs to be the exact same length. With some brass undercrimped and some overcrimped, you're ******* with muzzle velocity and affecting accuracy. Certainly not enough to notice at shorter ranges maybe, but every little bit adds up. A 1/10th too heavy charge, a light crimp, a bullet that's 1/10th light on the lead... you might see 200fps variations... which isn't cool even if you're just ringing steel at 200yds.
I actually tested this once just because. I took a loaded round and sharpied it all black and loaded it into a magazine. Then I very carefully did a 29rd mag-dump... and another... and another. 3 mags worth and it was still 2.260. I don't crimp rifle brass... but that's just me.
ADVICE: absolutely get yourself a couple extra depriming pins and have them handy... you will break one (or 5) eventually.
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01-23-2017, 10:27 AM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Port Saint Lucie,FL
Posts: 476
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Ouch... bust out the vice grips...
I recommend this:
RCBS Case Lube Kit
yes, you need to roll each case this way and it takes some time, but not as much time as it will take to extract that stuck case
I recommend this:
RCBS Case Lube Kit
yes, you need to roll each case this way and it takes some time, but not as much time as it will take to extract that stuck case
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01-23-2017, 12:58 PM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,332
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Ouch... bust out the vice grips...
I recommend this:
RCBS Case Lube Kit
yes, you need to roll each case this way and it takes some time, but not as much time as it will take to extract that stuck case
I recommend this:
RCBS Case Lube Kit
yes, you need to roll each case this way and it takes some time, but not as much time as it will take to extract that stuck case
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02-19-2017, 08:47 PM
#17
I like Wolf Primers... cheap, reliable, and they come pre-flipped. This box actually had a couple that had managed to turn back over, but it was the only one in the 5 or so that I went through today. It's not that I hate flipping primers, but it's that I wonder why it's necessary. With all the automation involved in manufacturing ammo, why can't there be one more step in the process to flip the primers over (like Wolf does) so the consumer doesn't have to. Honestly, it's this one little thing that's going to keep me buying Wolf.
Today I processed 1000pc of Lake City once fired... sized, trimmed, cham/debur, swaged, primed... all ready for powder and bullets. It's 2 extra strokes on the press per piece to do a full prep-job and then go back later press for powder/bullet, but I get to handle each piece several times during the whole process, and it gives me a nice warm&fuzzy that I don't any bad pieces.
Today I processed 1000pc of Lake City once fired... sized, trimmed, cham/debur, swaged, primed... all ready for powder and bullets. It's 2 extra strokes on the press per piece to do a full prep-job and then go back later press for powder/bullet, but I get to handle each piece several times during the whole process, and it gives me a nice warm&fuzzy that I don't any bad pieces.
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02-21-2017, 05:52 AM
#18
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 12
They should be coming pre-flipped shiny side up and in trays designed to accept pickup-tube directly.
Even better in pre-filled tubes able to drop directly into press, but guess that would be unsafe to transport.
Even better in pre-filled tubes able to drop directly into press, but guess that would be unsafe to transport.
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02-21-2017, 11:08 AM
#19
I don't know which brands come that way... seems if you could actually pick up directly out of the factory tray, there would be enough room for all the primers to be facing different directions. I've never seen anybody pick up directly out of the tray. I know the trick to turn them over just using another empty tray, but it's one more step... they should just all come shiny side down so you can perform one motion and they're all ready for the pickup tube. Sure, we're only talking about 60 seconds vs. maybe 70 seconds... but still, I'm buying Wolf from now on for all my plinking loads.
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02-22-2017, 02:17 AM
#20
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 128
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I`m not aware of any either, but the concept should work fine. Leave just enough room around each primer in the tray for the pickup tube to get into, but keep the tray so low profile that the lid holds the primers down keeping them from flipping over during transport. But as you say, not much time gained anyway. I did consider a RF100, but way to expensive vs actual time saved.
Winchester also comes pre-flipped. Same tray as your Wolf primers. I bought alot of them when I started reloading, and while I haven`t tried much else yet I`ve been very happy with them so far. I use Federal for my competition revolvers with reduced hammer springs.
Winchester also comes pre-flipped. Same tray as your Wolf primers. I bought alot of them when I started reloading, and while I haven`t tried much else yet I`ve been very happy with them so far. I use Federal for my competition revolvers with reduced hammer springs.
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