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Old 09-10-2014, 01:39 PM   #21
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As someone sentenced to Dayton for the next few years I'll echo comments about OH in general, and the awesomeness of the AF museum. The experimental hanger on base is particularly cool. If you end up in Dayton during business hours let me know and I sponsor you on base.
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Old 09-10-2014, 02:52 PM   #22
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I'll second that. I've been to Wright Patt twice, and I still haven't seen it all. Seems like every time I visit, they build a whole new exhibit hall.
I'm overdue for a visit. I seem to go every ten years. And they literally have had a new hall every time I've gone.

One of my favorites is the B-36 Peacemaker. Giant aircraft that was built to bomb Berlin from bases in New York (under the assumption that England would fall). To see that thing indoors is amazing.

The XB-70 is also incredible. They used to have it outside, and it had presence like no other. But it was corroding and, last time I went, they had moved it into the "X" hangar. It's hard to see there. It basically furnishes the ceiling for the place. To imagine that thing going Mach 3+.

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This photo was taken the year I was born . . . in Cleveland. Low unemployment though.

I actually didn't live in Ohio long. My Dad worked for BFG (HQ in Akron . . . still . . . although they no longer make tires -- BFG tires are just a Michelin brand now). That gave us the opportunity to live all over the world, which we did starting from when I was 4. Brazil and Phillipines mostly. Made it back to Ohio in 9th grade and finished HS there. That was plenty.

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I've been to Cleveland. They were actively scrubbing the blackened exteriors of the brick buildings to reveal bright red brick beneath. How wonderful it would be to breathe the air in Cleveland for a lifetime!
Air in Cleveland now is wonderful. That soot was accumulated during the 100 years that NE Ohio made just about everything on Earth. That abrubtly ended in the late 70s/early 80s.

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I have also been to Cincinnati and had the opportunity to view the industrial riverfront area. And Columbus. It seems the babe in the cradle of American heavy industry has been nearly completely smothered with the pillow of union extortion in its old age. It would have likely died eventually from lung cancer anyway, but still, it's a tough way to go.
That's pretty much all that's left in OH. Dying pensioners and the medical complex that takes care of them. Labor costs, the Clean Air Act, the opening of China and the severe economic downturn in the late-70s was all the impetus needed for multi-nationals to close shop in Ohio and move overseas. Note that all the pollution associated with heavy manufacturing is still being pumped out. It's just in SE Asia now. Maybe there's an Asian hornetball being born right now next to a burning river. LOL.

Talk about a threadjack.
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:49 PM   #23
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It's all on topic as far as I can see.

I'm going to the factory where they make these:



and these:



I sell both of those brands of machines.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:40 PM   #24
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So you admit that it is bad, and now we are just debating over how bad.
Bad is a relative term. I live in Cincinnati now (not native Ohioan), and have had the opportunity to live in several other states and travel all over the world.

There are worse places for sure...

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Wow. Small world. I graduated from Norton High School in the depth of the depression when everybody lost their jobs. I went on to the Navy and never looked back. Been back once or twice. What strikes you is that there has been almost no further development in the area since the early 80s. That's in stark contrast to the rest of the country.

Good news is that the Cuyohoga River doesn't catch fire anymore. Good fishing in Lake Erie.
Actually, industrial development is alive and well in OH just not in the form you would recognize it 20 years ago. Seems the state still trails in economic incentives though to our Southern friends. Most of the union membership has been relegated to the trades or public sector. Not so much mfg. union membership anymore.

The walleye is excellent...

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The Air Force museum is awesome. Dayton is a bit of a drive though.
Yes to both. Relavant topic, if you ever happen to be in Detroit take a day to see the Henry Ford Museum. If you like machinery.

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It's all on topic as far as I can see.

I'm going to the factory where they make these:



and these:



I sell both of those brands of machines.
Some of my customers happen to supply machined parts to them. Enjoy the trip.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:15 PM   #25
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By development, I was talking about houses/shopping/population, etc. Since leaving, I've mostly lived in the South and West where building is constant. When I visited Norton after having been away for 15 or 20 years, there were no new subdivisions, no new schools, no new shops. It seemed frozen in time. It was striking and sad.

It warms my heart that there are things being built in Ohio. Living through seeing all the factories close and the hardships that created was one of my formative experiences.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:59 PM   #26
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By development, I was talking about houses/shopping/population, etc. Since leaving, I've mostly lived in the South and West where building is constant. When I visited Norton after having been away for 15 or 20 years, there were no new subdivisions, no new schools, no new shops. It seemed frozen in time. It was striking and sad.

It warms my heart that there are things being built in Ohio. Living through seeing all the factories close and the hardships that created was one of my formative experiences.
Yes.

I came from the NE region where industry left 20+ years before the Midwest started to loose it's mfg base (think fabric looms, shoe production and machine tools). I think the recessions of the 80's just hastened things dramatically in the Midwest and today the mfg base in OH is about 50% what it was then as measured in jobs i.e. people working. The gross output I think isn't that far down (although I haven't taken the time to research it) because of productivity gains.

Because mfg then, at least in the mid-west, had a preponderance of union members it's easy to for some people to say 'unions' were the cause of the decline. I think that's an easy scapegoat and only a part of the story.

The real root cause, in my opinion, is we have no plan for manufacturing in the US and we've decided, as a national policy, we'd prefer to buy manufactured goods from lower cost countries because they are "dirty' industries and don't fit the image we see of ourselves.

I mean really, go into a Cracker Barrel and look at all the items on the racks of the retail side. Made in China....

Sorry, off tangent.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:21 PM   #27
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In case you don't find anything fun in Ohio, or even if you do:

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