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Old 08-26-2011, 02:50 PM   #1
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Default spark plug analysis assistance, please

I pulled the plugs from my Dad's '03 BMW 530i. Pictured is the plug from cyl #6. 36k miles on the plugs, 136k on the engine. I think this looks like evidence of detonation? This was the worst plug; the other five were progressively "cleaner" from cylinders #5 to #1, with #1 being the cleanest. Confirmation or ideas are appreciated. I have no idea what fuel he's running.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:35 PM   #2
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Those look like ordinary deposits to me. Perhaps there is some oil being burned in that cylinder. In the old days, I would call this lead fouling.

Overheated plugs that cause pre-ignition have a distinctive look. They'll look perfectly clean (because things are so darn hot that they burn off any deposit) and there will be little black dots in the insulator. Unmistakable.

With bad detonation, things look even worse . . . sometimes chunks of the insulator will be missing as if you took a hammer to it.

Tell your dad not to waste money on gimmicky plugs, BTW.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #3
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Also have him use Tier 1 gas. BMWs seem to be fairly sensitive to fueling. It costs a little bit extra.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:19 PM   #4
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Tier 1 gas also improves throttle response, amirite Sjmarcy?

On a more serious note, a good suggestion. My RX7 fouls plugs to hell and back if I use crap gas in it.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Tier 1 gas also improves throttle response, amirite Sjmarcy?

On a more serious note, a good suggestion. My RX7 fouls plugs to hell and back if I use crap gas in it.
If it keeps the plugs, valves, and combustion chambers cleaner, then YES for sure.

Look at those fuel injector before / after pictures in the ads or on the bottles. If you use good gas, things stay pristine much longer in the first place. The cheaper fuels tend to leave out various cleanliness additives and contain dirtier constituents.

Use cleaners containing PEA. There are at least 3 available such as the top Techrons, Redline SI-1 and I think BG and Amsoil have something.



From Chevron's site:

"The buildup of deposits in an engine can be like a slow growing cancer. If left unattended, it can gradually rob an engine of it's power, fuel efficiency and ultimately, it's drivability."

Lower quality gasolines, currently sold to an estimated 50% of the market, are usually formulated with less effective, less expensive additives (also using the minimum additive level legally required). If you occasionally use these gasolines, carbon deposits can build up and gradually rob your engine of its power, performance and fuel efficiency.

Last edited by sjmarcy; 08-26-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:04 PM   #6
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I want to see some studies of the effects of buildup caused by that **** we call ethanol blend. I'm sure it's ******* everything up.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
From Chevron's site:

"The buildup of deposits in an engine can be like a slow growing cancer. If left unattended, it can gradually rob an engine of it's power, fuel efficiency and ultimately, it's drivability."

Lower quality gasolines, currently sold to an estimated 50% of the market, are usually formulated with less effective, less expensive additives (also using the minimum additive level legally required). If you occasionally use these gasolines, carbon deposits can build up and gradually rob your engine of its power, performance and fuel efficiency.
So, we're now considering marketing literature from a company which sells gasoline to be empirical data on the performance of gasoline?
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So, we're now considering marketing literature from a company which sells gasoline to be empirical data on the performance of gasoline?
It's from their site for Techron, which is in fact an effective cleaner as it uses PEA. Once you get a given engine clean, running it on Tier 1 fuel keeps it that way longer than running super-bargain gasoline. There are in fact more additives and a more controlled mix for the better grades of gas.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:39 PM   #9
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what is walmarts murphy gas station gas considered in the tier world?
edit nevermind, looks like tier 2
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
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So, we're now considering marketing literature from a company which sells gasoline to be empirical data on the performance of gasoline?
It looks like we are.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post

Tell your dad not to waste money on gimmicky plugs, BTW.
Those are most likely factory equipment. VW has been using them as standard for a decade if not more.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:46 PM   #12
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Does the crankcase breather / PCV line enter the intake mani back near #6 runner? That looks like evidence of small amounts of oil over time. But definitely too much build up. I have seen similar from valve stem seals but they wouldn't be progressive front to rear. I have also seen certain fuel additives when overused deliver similar build up over time (Marvel Mystery Oil) but that leaves a similar residue on all plugs.

Certain Toyota FWD 6cyls had issues with combustion chamber carbon build up and the technical bulletin actually advised treating with off the shelf Techron fuel additive. Something like that may be useful in breaking loose the heavy deposits that are likely on the intake valves and in the combustion chambers of the back cyls.

Edit: Yay! I agree with marcy on something! Insert blind pig and acorn remark here.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
It looks like we are.
You know, would you guys say stuff like this to my face?

I have looked into this subject quite carefully over many years. I am qualified. PEA (polyether amine) is the present State Of The Art in gas additives for clean up purposes. If your car is just a bit injector gunked and intake valve clumped this class of products will lead to noticeable improvement in less than 1/2 tank of driving. They also clean inside the combustion chamber, piston tops, even the plugs to a degree.

I listed several products that include PEA. Chevron is the most known and widely available so I included some of their test pictures. PEA cleaners really do provide such a clean up. So what do you two do? Make more snide comments which display your lack of understanding of this topic and what you accuse me of (just putting in marketing material with no investigation or experience) is exactly what you are doing.

So Joe and "hornetball" please look into this class of products and report back your findings. I have provided good quality advice and input here and am pointing out some of the vapid, ignorant, immature rantings from you. And Joe, you are a Super Moderator? Is that why this forum seems like it is run by and for 12 year olds per some that write me. I just got another note apologizing for the conduct of this forum. It is largely your fault? Shame on you. If you don't care to moderate, give the task to someone else. A forum like this could be much more helpful, interesting and revenue productive if that is of interest to anyone. Quality content from qualified people would be needed. Then you can get real advertisers, etc. Actual moderators. Let's hear all about gas cleanup additives so superior to PEA and using Tier 1 gas from you.

Thanks.

Edit: Here is part of a note I just received from someone active at this forum.

This forum is like a bunch of kids on here, I think most are not track drivers \ racers. I have had tons of people on this forum tell me I couldn't do something, it was impossible while I know its very much possible to do it. I just think sometimes forums spread bad information than good information.

So yet another person has noticed the middle school level of maturity, the lack of technical expertise, point blank wrong information and commented about the nature of some who post here. That makes about 5-6 people who have contacted me so far including from the last time.
If you think that everyone thinks the young teen game here are funny and worthwhile I can tell you that many do not and are appalled, disappointed, and disturbed with this forum.

If you try to post good information as I have, you are quickly made to feel unwanted to say the least. And bear in mind you or Hustler or whoever did all sorts of e-blasting, forum games, made all my posts become invisible, altered my posts, tracking me all over the place, calling me etc.

Is this a forum about boosting Miatas or is it a poorly moderated group that lynch mobs people for entertainment?

Who owns this forum? Are they aware of things like this? If it is a business they may be interested in knowing who is harming their business.

Last edited by sjmarcy; 08-27-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:48 AM   #14
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Nobody has claimed that certain gas stations are not superior to other stations. Joe simply insinuated that it is naive to use a single company's marketing plan as a bible for what gas should be used. Just because shell has V-power doesn't mean it works like vtec. We have to be objective when comparing fuels, that's all anyone is asking or expecting.

Moreover, Joe is absolutely the last person that you should ever try to attack. He is nothing less than a savior to the miataturbo community. My car would have never run if it were not for him, I am eternally grateful and I am absolutely certain that I am not the only one to to feel this way.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
You know, would you guys say stuff like this to my face?
Well, I would. All I really said was "Caveat Emptor."

Now, what you said in this last post, specifically referring to PEA and pointing out your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE has weight for me. Marketing material from Chevron gets circular filed.

Joe's one of the best posters around. If I want good info on a subject, I'll usually type in a subject keyword and look for posts from Joe. You should too.

As for me, well, I have a long list of degrees and decades of experience in aviation, law and engineering. I've seen lots of presentations from lots of companies making lots of claims. I've had to fix lots of problems for these companies. That's all I'm saying.

I usually like the humor on this forum, even when I'm the target.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:11 AM   #16
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Sjmarcy, you are starting to become an overly sensitive faggette again. If you don't man up instead of crying about how someone was mean to you, you'll never get laid and continue going through life as a hopeless masturbator.

The next time you get offended, don't cry about it for two paragraphs because no one here gives a **** about your egg-shell emotions. Be a man.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:27 AM   #17
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I would suggest the new miata forumz site. It's the same group with a little more emotional constraint, more accepting of repeat questions, and I believe, a tighter moderation of what is said.

It's hard to beat this site for good info, but you have to understand that it really seems like a community of friends. Fixing problems and bullshitting, that's what friends do. If you grew up an "only child", then you might have trouble.

Personally, I like it here.

I'm changing my sig to Dr. Phil
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:58 PM   #18
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List of people who's emotions this site does not revolve around:
Sjcumhogmarcy
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
Is this a forum about boosting Miatas or is it a group that lynch mobs people *noobs that whine all the time*for entertainment?
Why can't it be both?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
Who owns this forum? Are they aware of things like this? If it is a business they may be interested in knowing who is harming their business.
I would have gotten out of the miata game a long time ago if it wasn't for this site. Instead I keep dumping money into my miata

Also with sjmarcy as president we could get Chevron as a sponser!

Last edited by FRT_Fun; 08-27-2011 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:22 PM   #20
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Very informative thread.

Would read again.

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