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Old 07-05-2008, 11:09 PM   #1
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Default Test drive: Civic Si & 'Speed 3

The Mazdaspeed was light years better. For and extra 2-3k the Mazda is well worth the money. I was really impressed with the power of the Mazda, very little lag and pulled quite hard at all rpm's. The ride of the Mazda was better over bumpy roads but handled just as well if not better through the curves. On the highway the power of the Mazda was much more usable and the road noise was much quieter than the Honda.

The Honda was noisy, bumpy and the power was mediocre. I had never driven a VTEC powered car before and was surprised how evident the cam change was. The sound of the Si was almost annoying while the Mazda purred quite nicely.

I wish I wouldn't have driven the Mazdaspeed, now I want one for a dd badly. The first time I floored it, the car made me smile big time.

Hopefully SamNavy doesn't come in here spitting all of his MZR hate...
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:17 AM   #2
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typical mazda fanboi writeup....

while im no fan of the civic si, surely there were some things that can be apreciated about that car. and to compare two cars with roughly 80hp difference and even more torque difference, not to mention one turbo and the other n/a, WTF did you expect? the si to be faster or even close?

im not about to tell you anything positive about the civic si, hell this is a mazda site: surely ill get bad reaction....but i will tell you this: your review sucks *****

good day to you sir
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:23 AM   #3
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qoted for the truth. When you think about it, if anything, the Si is more like a miata, lighter (300 + lbs) and more raw of a driving experence.

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typical mazda fanboi writeup....

while im no fan of the civic si, surely there were some things that can be apreciated about that car. and to compare two cars with roughly 80hp difference and even more torque difference, not to mention one turbo and the other n/a, WTF did you expect? the si to be faster or even close?

im not about to tell you anything positive about the civic si, hell this is a mazda site: surely ill get bad reaction....but i will tell you this: your review sucks *****

good day to you sir
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:28 AM   #4
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test drove a lambo, then a focus. the lambo is a way better car.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:25 AM   #5
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You should try out a MKV gti, it would probably be a closer match to the mazdaspeed than that honda.

I drove one with that stupid DSG thing and it just annoyed me. I like having full control, even if the shifts are freakishly quick, but I really really liked the way the car felt and how direct the steering was, plus the interior was such a nice change from my old cloth miata interior. The cool blue dash lights, aluminum bits and bobs, and the nicely bolstered leather seats just did it for me, and created a place where I would gladly spend hours of my time. It wasn't THAT powerful though, and didn't quite knock your head back with the acceleration, maybe shook your head lightly back and forth, but thats about it.

If I was looking for a DD in that price range it would be close between the mazdaspeed and GTI, but if its for everyday I think I would rather have that slightly more lively interior and well proven 2.0T.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:30 AM   #6
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My dad owns one with the DSG. Ive been bugging him to chip/flash it haha. Its a great ca, I love it. Awesome handleing, deicent power, nice bolstered seats. With a ecu reflash it would be even better.

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You should try out a MKV gti, it would probably be a closer match to the mazdaspeed than that honda.

I drove one with that stupid DSG thing and it just annoyed me. I like having full control, even if the shifts are freakishly quick, but I really really liked the way the car felt and how direct the steering was, plus the interior was such a nice change from my old cloth miata interior. The cool blue dash lights, aluminum bits and bobs, and the nicely bolstered leather seats just did it for me, and created a place where I would gladly spend hours of my time. It wasn't THAT powerful though, and didn't quite knock your head back with the acceleration, maybe shook your head lightly back and forth, but thats about it.

If I was looking for a DD in that price range it would be close between the mazdaspeed and GTI, but if its for everyday I think I would rather have that slightly more lively interior and well proven 2.0T.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedf50 View Post
You should try out a MKV gti, it would probably be a closer match to the mazdaspeed than that honda.

I drove one with that stupid DSG thing and it just annoyed me. I like having full control, even if the shifts are freakishly quick, but I really really liked the way the car felt and how direct the steering was, plus the interior was such a nice change from my old cloth miata interior. The cool blue dash lights, aluminum bits and bobs, and the nicely bolstered leather seats just did it for me, and created a place where I would gladly spend hours of my time. It wasn't THAT powerful though, and didn't quite knock your head back with the acceleration, maybe shook your head lightly back and forth, but thats about it.

If I was looking for a DD in that price range it would be close between the mazdaspeed and GTI, but if its for everyday I think I would rather have that slightly more lively interior and well proven 2.0T.
Agreed. GTi is a super solid ride. Love mine even after 20k miles. And it's pretty sprightly with a simple reflash (250hp area).
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedf50 View Post
You should try out a MKV gti, it would probably be a closer match to the mazdaspeed than that honda.



If I was looking for a DD in that price range it would be close between the mazdaspeed and GTI, but if its for everyday I think I would rather have that slightly more lively interior and well proven 2.0T.
as far as acceleration and handling? no.....as far as comfort and torqueyness yes. and I too agree: a gti would be the all around nice car in that price range, though once again: it really depends on what you're looking for in a car. for a daily driver, id get one, chip it, and call it a day. driving around in traffic, its a nice all arounder.

to the threadstarter: have you given any thought to a wrx? I know this is a bit biased, but OMG I loved my car to death, and wouldnt even dream of driving anything else had circumstances not forced me to sell it. Basic reflash running about 16psi would put it around 240WHP area with even more torque, with the torque available pretty much EVERYWHERE, awd, 4 doors, HUUUUGE potential for power. anyways, enough rambling: if you havent driven one give it a shot.
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:42 AM   #9
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18psi, your specifically talking about the newer wrx, correct? I know that the bugeye don't make 240whp with just a reflash. I'm asking because I know you can't be telling this guy to get a brand new wrx, that would be like telling someone to chop their dick off and eat it. I shiver worse than when I see a cop when one of those goes by.

I've only driven bugeyes, but I'll say that they are a hell of a lot of fun, and then even more fun in the dirt, although unless they really really improved the interior from 2003 to 2007, then its still not really on the level of the mazdaspeed and GTI. That being said, I had some of the best times of my life in my friends wrx, and I wasn't even driving.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:37 AM   #10
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no no, I should have been a bit more clear (sorry for the shitty typing, im drunk lol).....im referring SPECIFICALLY to the 06-07 wrx's...they dont look shitty like the new ones, have the 2.5L engine (a HUUUUUUUGE improvement over the 2.0, think sti block) with variable valve timing (avcs), throttle by wire, and lots of other goodies, and with a reflash a bunch of my friends, including yours truly, have run mid to low 13's at 98-102mph BONE STOCK, with just a reflash.......id be more than willing to illustrate my point, since I tune these ***** as a hobby/side job and wrote said reflash........
with a vf39 turbo and top mount, 06-07 wrx's are deep in the 12's with good driving, think [email protected] and better. ive had a 18g, a vf34, a evo3 big 16g, and a td06h 20g 8cm on my 07 wrx, and have run times from said 13's to [email protected] on pump gas 18psi without launch control or wot shifting, and a 2.0 '60 mind you. but thats not important, the best part is: the car was strong as ****, had more power than i needed, easy and fun to drive, had traction any day of the week, 4 doors, a big trunk, handled great, and pretty much was ******* badass all around...i could drive to work, then drive to the snow, then to the lake, then run low 12's high 11's at the track without changing a thing....anyways, enough rambling i gotta go to sleep..

here's a pic of what im refering to just cause it was parted and for sale, and i miss her dearly:




ps: ill proofread this **** tomorrow to make sure it makes sense, lol, im drunk off my *** and actually surprised that im even capable of typing this rant so late in the night with a good portiion of a vodka pbotle in me

good night
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:23 AM   #11
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yeah i'm with 18psi on this argument. Wrx's are awesome, specially the 2.5l ones. so easy to do. so easy to drive. huge huge aftermarket support. I would defiently drive one of those before making any decisions!
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
typical mazda fanboi writeup....

...and to compare two cars with roughly 80hp difference and even more torque difference, not to mention one turbo and the other n/a, WTF did you expect? the si to be faster or even close?
Honda Civic 4-door SI MSRP: $21,310-$23,260
Mazdaspeed 3...........MSRP: $22,340-$24,055

Looks like a perfectly valid comparison to me.


2008 Ford Focus.............MSRP:$14,395-$16,925
2007 Lamborghini Gallardo MSRP:$180,050-$206,000
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:57 AM   #13
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I saw on the SRT4 forums at some point, and people ar emaking 309+WHP/361ftlbs with 300 dollars in mods.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390883
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:08 AM   #14
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HOLY **** THOSE ARE SOME BIG NUMBERS! Maybe I'll push the GF to get the MS3 over the Mini S. She is considering both but hasn't driven either yet.
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
typical mazda fanboi writeup....
I work for Honda R&D so trust me this wasn't a Mazda fanboi biased comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi
to compare two cars with roughly 80hp difference and even more torque difference, not to mention one turbo and the other n/a, WTF did you expect? the si to be faster or even close?
No I didn't expect the Si to be faster. What I didn't expect was a)how much poorer the ride quality in the Si is, b) How much more road noise there is in the Si at freeway speeds and, c) how quick the MS3 actually is.

I think this is a completely fair comparison, the cars are obviously in the same class (sporty cars under $25k).

Bottom line is I can get the Si at a pretty good discount but I'd still rather have the MS3.

18psi - I haven't test driven one of the WRX's you are talking about but I don't doubt that they are great cars. My problem is that everyone and their dog has a WRX. (Not a very good reason huh?)

Speedf50 - I have a few friends that have all years of VW's and I'm not really sold on them. I've heard that newer ones can have electrical gremlins which is a big turn off.

bryantaylor - good comparison....see 2kBlk's comment.
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
I saw on the SRT4 forums at some point, and people ar emaking 309+WHP/361ftlbs with 300 dollars in mods.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390883
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:02 PM   #17
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si > ms3
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
I saw on the SRT4 forums at some point, and people ar emaking 309+WHP/361ftlbs with 300 dollars in mods.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390883
cool
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
I saw on the SRT4 forums at some point, and people ar emaking 309+WHP/361ftlbs with 300 dollars in mods.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390883
very true, and amazing isnt it? I have a shitload of buddies rolling on srt4's and as far as power/dollar ratio, the srt4 is pretty much near impossible to beat. badass little car, has power out the ***, can be made stupid fast with fairly little invested, but couple problems:
1) its fail wheel drive (like the rest of them but still)
2) its a dodge: it looks like ****, the interior is a joke, the quality is a joke

if u can live with ugly *** looks, front wheel drive, and the shittiest interior this side of a geo metro: the car IS AWESOME
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kBlk View Post
Honda Civic 4-door SI MSRP: $21,310-$23,260
Mazdaspeed 3...........MSRP: $22,340-$24,055

Looks like a perfectly valid comparison to me.


2008 Ford Focus.............MSRP:$14,395-$16,925
2007 Lamborghini Gallardo MSRP:$180,050-$206,000
notice that nowhere in my post did i mention money? thats because I wasnt comparing that. I knew you'd bring this up, and it IS a valid point, however:
a 2007 mazda miata retails roughly mid to high 20's correct? I believe so
now take a 2006 mitsubishi evo rs for example:
it will absolutely DEMOLISH the mazda in pretty much any test, and costs roughly the same......whats my point? both cars are completely different, and buying one over the other simply relies on what you're looking for in a car: not their performance numbers since one is turbo awd and powerful, and the other n/a rwd and pretty much weak as hell.

and you of all people, being a honda r/d guy or whatever, SHOULD KNOW the civics strong points and why exactly it is that after all these wonderful cars like the ms3 and srt4 come and go, the civic was, is, and will pretty much always be
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:23 PM   #20
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Hmmm... I'm gonna call bullshit on that MS3 dyno.

A stock Mazdaspeed3 dynos at 230-240whp and 250-260wtq. Those are the universal accepted numbers you should expect from a properly operated dynojet. An extra 5psi, tp, and airbox are not going to get you an exta 100ftlbs of torque. Not possible. And since torque is supposed to be the constant, I just don't know what to make of that graph.

****, Corky and CP-e can't make that kind of power with more bolt-ons and a full-control piggyback and this dude can do it? Who's kidding who?

Looks like another dyno-operator giving the customer exactly what he wanted to see.
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