Things that make you say hmmmm....
 

Po' mans lift....Doesn't give you the best access under the car, but I think this idea may have some merit!

http://www.opentrackaction.com/share...t/IMG_2562.jpg

http://www.opentrackaction.com/share...t/IMG_2570.jpg

http://www.opentrackaction.com/share...-Vette-Big.jpg

http://www.opentrackaction.com/share...ront-1-Big.jpg

http://www.opentrackaction.com/share...ront-3-Big.jpg

My neighbor has one I used a lot, like you said, doesn't give you a lot of access up under teh car, but its great to get on a lift and not take up any space. I did my first exhaust and shock install on a scissor lift like that.

Aren't they still like $3,000? Kinda spooky IMHO, I'd want/make some type of clamp-on sleeve that you bolt around the extended cylinder, assuring you if won't collapse.

If you look between the cylinders, there is a safety.

These are more convenient than you'd think. Even just working under the hood it's nice to have it up higher so you aren't bending down as much. Bout the only thing you can't do is a tranny or frame rails.

Plus, some people don't have the ceiling for a 4/2 post lift.

Chris

I would not feel safe under that thing. It is not the hydraulics or the strength of the device, but the overhang on either side is plain scary!

I have one of these lifts.

It's handy for suspension work and tire rotating. Oil changes are do-able, but ramps are less hassle. Exhaust work is an absolute bitch (or was on my WRX, anyway).

Looks like a good idea, but it looks like you wouldn't be able to use it even for a clutch job.

If you tried to use this sort of lift for a clutch job, you'd end up smashing your testicles with a cinder block out of sheer frustration.

I've worked under scissor lifts a bunch of times. Shit I used to have a fear of just being under the car on any lift, but after years and years it just became normal.

Doesn't look like it would replace a 2/4 post lift or jack stands, but it looks like a good in-between step for those that can't have a 2/4 post lift.

End thread

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6167_200386167
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For a hundred dollars less, I'd buy the better one:Dannmar 2-Post Low Ceiling Wide Floorplate Lift — 9000Lb. Capacity, Model# D9-2X | Two-Post Lifts | Northern Tool + Equipment

http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../175576_lg.gif

IF you have 9.5' ceiling clearance. I always kicked myself for building my shop as a 30x56x10, which only yields 9' inside. For $1000 more I could have had a 12' high for 11' inside clearance.

My new building that is being built later this month is 36x60x12 but that one is going to be storage only, so no concrete.

I will be able to go with a full height lift in the other half of my current shop when I get all of the storage "stuff" out of it and into the new building. I can then go with a standard 12' tall two post and "straddle" two of the trusses which are on 8' centers. The two post will go up above the lower part of the trusses but I have 14' to work with there. It will give me a full lift height as the vehicle can go up between them. The only issue is that half of the shop was never insulated so I will have to get that done.

For $1400 this is hard to beat. Use a floor jack to raise it. Park on it every day. I've had one for 5 years now and have done everything from pulling engines to changing out transmissions. I love it...


KwikLift Features

Mine doesn't have the wheels on it:
http://www.kwiklift.com/images/mg2-300.jpg

hmmmm!

I'll never screw around with jackstands again for a job like this:
http://www.lightweightmiata.com/beast/gap/gap09.jpg


You park on it every day and then just raise the back when you want to do some work:
http://www.lightweightmiata.com/beast/gap/gap10.jpg

^^^ I don't see any benefit in having the car on your little platform for doing shocks vs. jackstands. In fact, jackstands would be in the way a lot less than that platform.

I'm trying to buy what look like two motorcycle scissor lifts, but each with a capacity of 2,000 lbs from a local guy. Scissor lift tables is what they call them.

It will get the car about 3 ft. in the air fully supported front and rear. Pics when/if I get them!

I love it...nice alternative to the traditional 2/4 post lift, especially if you dont have the ceiling height for it....Couple questions for you: Is the height adjustable? Whats the max height on this gizmo? You have any issues scraping? And what if you want your wheels off?

1) You don't drive up on jackstands - you spend 20 minutes getting the car up on them.
2) You die a horrible death when the jackstands fall.
3) I use a pneumatic jack to raise a tire up and then sit a block of wood under the jacking point to keep the tire up. Takes a whole 30 seconds (well, maybe 45).
4) Ever put the car on jackstands and then have to drop it down to break a lug nut loose? Major hassle but not on my lift.

Try to pull a tranny off while the car is on a scissor lift. It is not going to happen. Try to roll around under the car bleeding the brakes while the car is on a scissor lift. It is not going to happen. I haven't found a single job I can't do on my kwiklift.

I actually have my Metro on jackstands (the front of the car) right now. It has been one pain in the ass after another. I cannot wait to get my engine in and get it off the stands. Actually, the only drawback I have ever seen with my lift is the reason the Metro is on stands now. The lift raises the engine too high for my 5'5" to work under the hood. I had to pull the engine out of the Metro and I decided to just do it 6" above the floor instead of 20" above the floor. I could have just driven onto my lift a little way and not jacked it up but I decided against it at the last minute. I wish I hadn't.

- No, the height is fixed at 20" (almost perfect for most jobs).
- Scraping the bottom of the car when driving up on it? No, not at all and Miatas don't get any lower than mine (my blue one, not the red one pictured).
- Just jack up one corner like you would when it is sitting on the ground. If you did it one time you would see how easy it is. Not at all a pain in the ass. The only difference while on the lift is your tire iron doesn't hit the ground when you spin it and the wheels are right in your face instead of too low to mess with.

Okay.

1) 20 minutes? Work faster. Takes all of 5 minutes to get a miata (any car) on jackstands. Granted, it's not as simple as driving up on a kiwi... but it's not a PITA really. Been doing it for about 10 years now. Other options include driving up on ramps and jacking the rear and supporting w/ jackstands. Takes less than 5 minutes but ramps are then in your way.

2) Jackstands don't fall. JackASSES knock them out from under a car or don't put them in their correct place. My g/f knows how to raise and support a vehicle. Enough said.

3) That 45 second procedure can be done on the ground in 45 seconds.

4) No. Any noob knows you break all the lugs loose first, then raise and support.


I'm arguing because I'm bored, have insomnia, my back hurts. Nothing personal.

Moving on...

I mentioned buying (2) scissor lift tables. Which will place the front and rear tires on seperate stands (tables), leaving the entire underside of the car accessible. Only issue I see here is front brakes/suspension, but a 4x4 block of wood and a hydraulic jack under the crossmember would solve it.

I'll be installing one of these:

http://www.challengerlifts.com/images/AV1020WV.png

Our old Mazda dealer had Challenger inground twin-posts.. They fucking ROCK. This one however is great for consumers because it operates on water instead of hydro oil! Easy to pass codes!

Now I just have to get the garage built. . .

That looks really nice...but aren't you back to making tranny and exhaust jobs impossible.

The nice thing about a standard outboard two post is you can do anything on it. The arms are also often useful for tool and fastener placement.

Water hydraulic cylinders are FTW though when talking about your own garage.

Yep, looks impossible to me!

I like how you pulled a switcheroo with the c6 and c5.

Yeah, I caught that too... different locations as well and the lifts are different (colors) too.

1) There is NO way to get my car on jackstands in 5 minutes. I cannot even get a floor jack under the car to lift it up to get the jack stands under it. Put my car on jackstands one time and after you finish cussing you will pay any amount of money not to have to do it again. Hell, putting it back on the ground takes 20 minutes.
2) Once you use a stable lift everything else seems dangerous. I like my ribcage and what it contains and I get a little nervous under jackstands.
3) Yes, but when you are in the air how can you do it?
4) I can remember building my $41 exhaust. I had it on the lift and found a killer deal on some 13" wheels with Kumho V700s on them. I was able to put the new wheels on without dropping the car down. Couldn't have done it if the car was on jackstands. Same deal happens a million times. Don't even act (unless you don't work on cars much) that you haven't had to drop a car off of the jackstands for any reason only to put it back in the air a minute later. On my blue car it is a 45 minute procedure.

Not taking anything personal. I appreciate a good argument.

The only thing your two scissor jacks do that my lift doesn't do:
1) You are cooler than me because you have a "real" lift.
2) You can raise and lower the car to any height.

What it doesn't do:
1) Hoses, wires, whatever in the way when you are trying to work.
2) Can't roll out the side of the car.
3) Can't roll the tranny under the side of the car (or tools).
4) Lifts are always in the way. I park on mine, use it as a work bench, use it as bench seating for parties, etc.

Since I bought my lift I have had a lot of people tell me what a piece of shit it was. I can't remember any of these people actually having their own lift or using a lift like mine. Once it moves out of the land of theory and into the land of reality my lift is about the best thing going for someone who doesn't have a 10' ceiling and space set aside for only working on cars. At some point I will build my "dream garage" (even though most people would say I have a really sweet setup now). At that point I will get a 4 post hydraulic lift. It will be interesting to see if it is really better than what I have or if I am just trying to make up for my small penis.

1) Buy a low profile jack, you'll need it if you ever take the car to the track and need to change wheels anyway.
2) Only consume a few beers while working under jackass-stands, not a whole case.... jackass. (not calling you names, just using the lingo to help drive the point home)
3) I'm confused.
4) Lets be honest, you could've waited to put the new wheels on.

To address your bottom 1-4:

Park on it:
http://images.craigslist.org/3n83ma3...8de3171795.jpg

Roll anything out of the side:
http://images.craigslist.org/3p83o73...54f60b1492.jpg

I think you were still thinking conventional scissor lift, not scissor lift table.

;)

My Miata won't drive up on that thing. Heck, they had to partially disasemble a Mustang dyno when I tried to get some number on it.

Nah, I think I'll stick with mine. Good luck with your purchase though.

Mine probably won't make it up on there either. lol

Hopefully the guy lets 'em go cheap though. I would love to have something to get the cars in the air.

Looks like it'd be a pain for anything that involves having a wheel off the ground- brake pads, dampers, springs, tire changes, etc. I know they've got little bottle-jacks that you attach to the thing. Jack up the jar, then jack up the car again.

So far, I've only been killed once while working under jackstands, and it's because I was being stupid. Maybe someday I'll buy a two-post lift. Actually, that envirolift looks pretty sexy. Any idea how much they cost?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found out how much they cost. More than my car. And my bike. Combined.

I have one of the same systems Robert has, he actually saw mine and bought his. Would I like a full 4 post lift, you bet. but since I have a 8' garage ceiling the ramp lift works fine for me. As for removing any wheel etc, I run the car on the ramp, I have a small hydraulic scissor jack that I put under the side rail just like the OEM jack. 3 pumps and the wheel is off the ramp. I stuff a few 2x8's under the rail for safety and pull the wheel.

My $1400 lift was one of the best investments I have ever made. I use it almost every week and it is always "out of the way" when not in use. Spend the $1400 and be done with it. You'll be wrenching on the thing for decades.

What's up? I didn't think you hung around here. Yes, I saw Larry's (actually, I used it to put a new clutch in the blue car) and fell in love with it. Definitely one of the best things I ever bought.

The scissor table lifts I posted will hopefully be mine for less than $500 though. When just purchasing my fixer-upper first house, I gotta watch the additional expenses!

What I'm hoping is to be able to turn them sideways and pull in/out of the garage w/ no problems, and when I need them, turn them the other and and be able to pull up on them w/ some wooden ramps.

Tell me about it.

I'm just sick and tired of messing with jacks and stands. I have a very low saddle jack and a good quality wide driveway, but have too many cars IN the driveway most of the time. This causes many problems attempting to jack up the car from the sides.

It'll be worth the expense saving me 25 minutes of cursing and freaking out thinking I'm going to knock my car off the stands attempting to get it up level.. Plus the stands don't get it high enough I can stand under it and work.. Whats up with that shit? :giggle:

Some ideas are just nutty. Examples would be the concept of transmitting a human voice over a distance of hundreds of miles without wires, constructing a computer powerful enough to plot the trajectory of a ballistic rocket and yet small enough to fit into a single room, producing light without the use of combustible materials, and of course, this idea:

What if you could raise your car up into the air high enough to host a square-dancing class under it, without having any beams, posts or ramps in the way?




Here is an electric hoist:
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p...s/14230_lg.gif
This particular unit is rated to dead-lift 1,100 lbs straight into the air at a speed of 16 feet per minute. This hoist costs $160 from Northern Tool, so four of them would cost $640.



Here is an A-36 structural steel channel, measuring 6" wide by 2" deep with 1/4" webbing. Parts of this sort are commonly used to build truck chassis, foundations for homes, etc.:
http://www.metalsdepot.com/pics/hrchannel.jpg
Two eight foot lengths of this material would cost around $150-$200, with a weight of ~80 lbs each.



How strong is the ceiling of your garage?

Not to kill your outside of the box thinking, but virtually no one will have enough ceiling capacity to hang a car from, plus no way I would get under a suspended car without a way to lock it out. Heck, even the 2 and 4 post lifts in professional shops have locking bars to prevent the car coming down in the event of a failure, and they are "designed" for this application.

Two words Joe.. HELL. NO.

LOL. :)

Might work if your garage is a steel building and your car has a cage.

I worked at Mazaak, a world leader in producing CNC machines. Once a machine is complete, they use essentially the same type of system (although the hoist rides on a beam, with wheels on each end riding along 2 similar beams) to pick up and set the machine on semi-trailers. Assembled machines were like 12-20k lbs if I remember correctly.


Scary part of the operation was using synthetic fiber tow straps as the way to lift the machines. I never got to a point of trust w/ those things.

http://www.cranewerx.com/Cranes%20pi...e_girder_1.jpg

Girder Crane... thats what they're called!

I thought something alone those lines would be called a gantry crane?

I would love to work under a suspended car. There must be a good way to do that. Maybe when I build my garage I will build it strong enough for that. Cranes and hoists are usually designed to be worked under.

I'm not a structural engineer. I'm not a civil engineer. I'm not allowed to write "P.E." after my name. Hell, I'm not even an architect. But I would think that using through-bolted load plates there are ways you could distribute the load into the roof truss structure such that each point could tolerate having 600-650 lbs hanging from it. Realistically speaking, this is really no more load than one very fat person standing in front of one fully loaded refrigerator on the ground floor of a house built over a full basement. Would the local building inspector have a stroke if he saw it? Yeah, probably. Would it work well enough so as to not widow your domestic partner? My gut says yes.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/...Pm_5d08d5d.gif

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/...em_23dffd7.gif

Joe,

I don't know anyone brave enough to risk their house (or garage at least) for a trial/error assessment. :)

http://www.multinail.com.au/deployco...ss_plate_l.gif

I wouldn't *truss* this to hold 600+ lbs. Would you?

You see how the rails are mounted on the VERTICAL colums? They carry the stress to the floor.

I am not a civil engineer either, but I wouldn't trust Joe's drawing enough to get under that car. I have taken enough mechanical engineering classes to know the load needs to go to the floor more directly than through a wooden truss. Wouldn't be hard to do when designing a garage, but would be far more difficult to retrofit.

Ok, so in some parts of the country they still use those perforated metal things. (and I just realized that the first image I posted shows them.) Get thy ass up into the attic and secure it right.


So do the load-bearing outer walls of a garage. At worst, you'd need two floor-to-ceiling posts in the middle (assuming a conventional side-by-side 2 car garage) similar to those found under the backbone runner in basements, or running down the middle of garages in two-story homes with living space above the garage.

Sorry Joe, I'm with everyone else. I lift 50-500lb parts all day at work with those jib cranes and I wouldn't trust one suspended from anything wooden.

Project84, my company has Mori Seiki lathes, Haas, Okuma, Takisowa, HES, and one lonely Mazak. Some of those are very new, and some are very old, but our Mazak (super quick turn 15m I think) has the FASTEST tool changes I've ever seen, scares the shit out of me every time.

That being said, fuck you and propitiatory conversational Mazatrol software bullshit.

LOL

We don't have any Mazaks here. Mostly Mori Seiki, Makino, Hardinge, Okuma machine tools.

Our shop is all Okuma, Haas and Mori Seiki as well.

Last place I worked had a Mazak but I never worked on it.

We have 5 big girder cranes here, and I can guarantee you even a small one would need a pretty serious structure to hold it.

It *might be worth it to erect some beams that blend in with your garage's posts and walls, and place trusses close to the ceiling, but I'm sure you'd be approaching two post lift costs by then. Any kind of carriage system attached to a single cable would be complicated and prone to turning once in the air. Imagine hitting a suspension bolt with the impact and watching car rotate into sheetrock...or worse, towards you.

Actually, since the hoist is going to be configured in a double-line configuration, you could attach each hoist to one truss, and the cable to an adjacent truss. Only ~300 lbs per attachment point. I know from practical experience that even the horizontal member of a ceiling truss (at some distance from a load-bearing wall) can support a 300lb weight.


Maybe. I can see a system consisting of two eight-foot I beams or C channels run perpendicular to the car. At each end, they are set upon a post of the sort found in the basements of homes holding up the spine of the first floor (or whatever the technical name of that beam is). They'd be anchored to the wall or ceiling to provide stability, but no significant load would be placed on the house.


How much would all this material cost? I haven't a clue. Probably no more than a couple hundred dollars if you can source it all locally. If the steel and related hardware wind up costing $400 (which I think is on the high side) you're still well under 1/2 the cost of a two-post lift once you factor in freight.



Four hoists, four cables. The car might sway back-n-forth a few inches if you're trying to break the crank bolt free with a cheater pipe.

This could work. May be hard to get them all to move the same distance at the same time....but at that point it's fine tuning and wiring.

If you welded the structure yourself it could be affordable.

My only other issue was with time to attach the car to this rig...but if you used chain hooks all you'd have to do is slide your two cradle bars under the car and hook the four points.


The more I think about it...the more I like it....kinda like Megan Fox.

I was just a temp, bro! :laugh:

No seriously, I wouldn't like working for another Japanese owned company. They paid well, that wasn't even worth bitching about.... but.... at 18 years old as a temp I was mandatory 60 hours a week which they worked 6 days and every other Sunday. I literally went like 4 months just waking up to go to work and coming home to fall asleep. On the weeks we worked Sunday's, that meant 68 hours.

Full time employees were mandatory 70 hours and every other Sunday.

Lots and lots of people slept while standing in the break rooms for our 10 minute breaks. I slept inside the "cages" or frames of the machines since I worked in production and knew it took a minute and a half to walk to the break room when the horn blew.

JOE,

Don't hoist anything using your roof trusses, it's just a bad idea and if something happens you won't be able to explain it to insurance. Besides, for 4 of those hoists, you could buy a kwiklift. Apparently they're pretty sweet.

Ok, so the trusses are a bad idea.

Still, you could easily fashion an inexpensive (and stable) overhead gantry out of two I beams and four architectural support columns. For what that would all cost, I could purchase roughly 1/2 of a KwikLift, assuming you factor in freight costs.

As I said earlier, I don't like the Kwiklift concept for a couple of reasons. I don't want a bigger, heavier version of jack stands. I want something I can stand up under, easily remove the wheels and work on the suspension, etc.

A KwikLift also does not double as an engine hoist. This does.





It'd be very easy to build a single controller that allowed you to move all four motors together, move them in banks (front and rear) or move them individually. No electronics even, just a couple of double-pole toggle switches and some relays.


Use bolts. Stronger, easier to install. Same way they put bridges together.


Assume that one side of the gantry abuts a wall. The two cradle bars each have an eye-bolt at either end. Leave the end of each beam which is nearest the wall attached to the cable at all times, and rest the beams upright against the wall (they'd take up less wall space than a pair of ramps.) When you want to lift, lower each beam to the floor, slide it under the car, and attach the far-end cable. You could probably have the car in the air and crack open your first beer in under five minutes.

Scissor lift for suspension.

Jackstands for exhaust and drivetrain.

I wouldn't recommend paying $2k for a scissor lift, though- I got mine for $600, and that's the right price IMO considering the somewhat limited utility.

Find a local shop equipment salesman and let him know you're interested in picking up a used lift. My friend's uncle was one; my scissor lift is one he took as a trade-in on a new lift from a neighborhood garage. $30 for a new hydraulic line when I installed it, $6 for a couple quarts of ATF... Have had it for six or eight years now; no trouble at all.

I wouldn't trust a crane for anything to work under, myself. Cranes aren't actually designed to suspend things to work under, they're for lifting and transporting objects. Thats my take on them anyway, having worked in a shop using Gantry cranes suspending from the ceiling designed to hold a 40,000 pound load... I wouldn't EVER get under one..

http://jugrnot.com/IMG_3722.JPG
http://jugrnot.com/IMG_3730.JPG
http://jugrnot.com/IMG_3735.JPG
Would you work under that??

Oh right, I suppose one of us who works in a shop should've mentioned that you're never, ever, supposed to even walk under something that's suspended by a crane, much less work on said object while under it. We actually had a guy die at work a year ago. He was an idiot and lifting something with an unrated lifting 'rope'. It fell to the ground, tipped over, and crushed him.

Hey elesjuan, I've got ya beat:
http://www.alliedsystems.com/images/l4115c.jpg

and that's a picture of our smallest one. Our largest lifts 160,000lbs of log, that one only lifts 80,000.

Thats a big sombitch!

Nah, our cranes were pretty small honestly. The biggest one we had which wouldn't move much more than 20 feet side to side was 80 ton while the rest were only 20 ton.

I'll say again.. JESUS thats a big fucking truck! lol...