Time to replace the family car with a bigger family car
 

In about September of '10 we bought a 2007 Mazda CX7 with I think 31,800 miles on it. I like this car a lot as it's comfortable, it's AWD, it's laid out pretty well I think...only issue is: It sucks on fuel consumption. Sucks as in, it gets 20mpg on a good day, and we have to run premium. In my mind...a vehicle like this with today technology...there is absolutely no excuse that this shouldn't get 30mpg's minimun. It has a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder with an intercooled turbo that runs way too rich and spools way too fast. Too fast as in, I think it's supposed to make like 265wtq at like 2,800 RPM or something like that. As far as mechanical issues, we had a leaky transfer case seal and both rear wheel bearings were bad. These issues were all replaced under warranty at no charge.
It now has 64,000 miles on it.
Wife says it's getting too small, and she mentioned trading it in for something bigger like a Mazda CX-9.
I hate the CX-9.
Shopping around for something that gets a little better fuel mileage and is bigger, and something that catches my eye; I found the 2008 and newer Volvo XC-90. I has a 3.2 inline 6 cylinder, is AWD, and looks to be similar in size to the Mazda CX-9, but I'm diggin this thing.
Who has experience with Volvo products other than 1980's 240's??
Give suggestions/ opinions please.

My '04 v70 just decided to lose oil pressure as we were getting on the freeway to leave Michigan. Motor is fubared. Only 126k. Hate the damn thing with every fiber of my being.

Nice car though. Even so, they're not what they used to be.

I almost traded our 09 Mazda 3 hatch (me and wifey's shared work beater) on a 2008 Volvo C30. I watched an episode of Jay Leno's garage that had a Volvo C30 Pole Star edition, and fell in love. Then I realized "wtf do I need a turbo wrong wheel drive daily for?" Here's the episode in case you're interested: For some reason, I love this car...color and all.

My parents have had 2 Honda Pilots, great SUV and a tad better mileage I believe.

Honda pilot is out...wife won't buy anything her friends have, and her best friend has a pilot. This also leaves out ford escapes, mercury mariners, and (thank god cause I hate these f'n things) Toyota rav-4's.

I would be really impressed if you can find an SUV larger than the CX-7 that will return 30 MPG combined.

The Q5 Hybrid is 26 combined, the Highlander Hybrid is 28 combined, the Lexus RX 450h is 30 combined and the A3 TDi is 34 on diesel. The Q5 is probably smaller and the A3 is definitely smaller and they are all probably more expensive than you want.

add a GT35

Toyota Highlander = Bigger than CX-7, CR-V, Rav4, but doesn't get amazing gas mileage (except maybe Hybrid model). Fuelly says 21ish to 24ish combined mpgs on anything newer than a 2005. That's regular fuel so maybe 10%+ better FE than the CX-7 and 10% cheaper fuel.

XC90 = Need to buy a newer one to avoid transmission issues (I think). There isn't much data on Fuelly for the XC90 but it looks like closer to 18-20mpg, and the turbo models (do they make one?) will require premium.

Hyndai Sante Fe (or Kia equivalent) = basically same story as Toyota Highlander (minus the resale value of the Toyota). 20-22 mpgs at regular fuel. I have no experience with these cars...

Nissan Pathfinder = worse MPGs than Toyota or Honda Pilot, figure 18-19 overall, again regular fuel.

I wouldn't really recommend any of the US examples of 5+ passenger SUVs, I think they are all in the 18-22mpg range. The unibody Ford Explorer (2011 and newer) looks decent enough, fuelly says 19.5mpg but the ecoboost will require premium.

SOOOOOO

Highlander (possibly Hybrid model)?

That's my recommendation I guess...

Honda Odyssey... designed for carrying people and not pretend off roading... 28mpg hwy, we get 22 in town. seats 8, weighs less than a bmw m6. tows 4500 lbs. Drives nice, is a good statement that you don't care about what the joneses drive, but that is a necessary trait for most miata owners anyway.

This. Or, in general, if you want a practical vehicle to efficiently carry people, you need to stop being a trend dork and buy a minivan. This is their purpose, nothing else even comes close.

I've told my oldest daughter this until I'm blue in the face. We actually gave her our old Chrysler minivan back when she was expecting her first child. She traded it for a new Honda CR-V at her first opportunity. Now, all we hear is that the car is too small, can't carry all the kid's gear, she needs 3 rows for car pooling, yada, yada. My son-in-law, God bless him, refuses to bust their budget to buy his wife (my spoiled daughter) the latest, fashionable "cross-over." She made her choice, she deals with the consequences. Love that guy!

For my part, we have two Expeditions. We have horses, not kids. Youngest daughter drives the old 4x4 (perfect tank for a 16 year old). Wife drives the newer, largest-possible, EL -- which, BTW, only gets 3mpg worse than your CX-7 despite its bulk, 5.4 and binary (full throttle/full brake) driver.

I'm trying to convince my wife of this recently. I'm likely getting rid of my truck when our kid arrives in the fall but still need towing and hauling therefore minivan. It would even mean she gets a new(er) comfier vehicle to drive and I dd her 02 protege but she is still resistant.

She, like many others, wants a small suv *or wagon* instead of a van.

You're kidding yourself with those expectations.

Get a CX-5 skyactiv, tell the wife to more practical. Unless you pay up the ass for a hybrid, what you want doesn't exist. And those hybrids will get you mid to high 20's at best. CX-5 gets 35.

^^ haha ( to hornet)

XC90 = bad trans and worse mpg. Other than that great car.

I will reaffirm everything that has been said about minivans. If you need to haul people or stuff there is no substitute. Like everyone else we have an odyssey and it is awesome. My wife was a diehard minivan hater till I bought one, now you couldn't pry it out of her hands. Sure it doesn't handle like miata, but the seats are comfy, it rides great and the motor has plenty of torque.

You guys are awesome at segues! I was going to come around to the minivan eventually after pointing out that the rest of the options were inferior, but all the smart folk jumped on the softball pitch. :)

Objectively speaking, it is hard to argue against a Toyota or Honda minivan for people with small children (and all the crab that goes with them).

Ford Flex FWD. Don't say you need AWD for the snow, you don't. I remember when I was a kid my dad drove our old caravan through like a foot of unplowed snow. Just get snow tires.

I got my hopes up there for a second...Honda's website says 3500lb towing capacity.

My brotherinlaw has a new odyssey, it's pretty damn pimp.

For 4500lb towing capacity there's the Ford Flex. 18/25mpg FWD non turbo. The Ecoboost can run on 87 octane per Ford, and gets 16/23AWD. Not as good as the 19/28 mpg of the Odyssey, but also not a minivan, and can tow.

twin turbo V6 AWD FTW?

I love minivans.

I fondly remember my first exposure. It was an air wing detachment to NAS Fallon, NV in 1987. The squadron had rented some minivans to get around in. One weekend, we took off from Fallon for some R&R in Reno, drinking like frat boys (or maybe frat boys drink like fighter pilots, dunno). The great thing about minivans, they have a huge sliding door just like the UH-1 Huey. Next thing you know, that door is open and we're gleefully taking our turns as door gunners, trying to peg road signs with empties while going 80 down the empty interstate. It was a blast. Miraculously, we had 0 fatalities.

The instant I got home, we traded the old Ford LTD parental-hand-me-down station wagon (wood sides) for a used '84 Caravan. Oldest was 2 at the time. Big upgrade.

Anybody that thinks minivans are boring just doesn't understand . . . .

I like the cx5. Wife claims it's actually bigger than the cx7. I don't understand why she wants something that seats 7. Maybe she knows something I don't?

LOL. Congratulations! :party:

I'm pretty sure she's not pregnant...I think she's just getting tired of lacking space to haul around all our son's stuff.

Odd, it may be the newer ones are rated a little lower. Mine is an 08 EX-L RES, the EX and above have the cylinder deactivation which wasn't completely sorted till 08 (I would have bought an older one) And that may have some effect on the rating as there are at least minor differences in the motors...


edit: now I can't find it, but I swear I saw somewhere that with the right model you get a 4500 rating. I'd never be towing more than a miata on a trailer which would be hopefully be under the 3500 mark anyway (borrowing a small light trailer)

If I was in your shoes and genuinely needed a bigger "car," Id just buy a used tahoe. Nice and cheap to operate (minus gas), plus I can use it for towing.

If I was looking at something newer Id go with either a new Durango or Grand Cherokee. I have a few customers who have the 3.6 Durango and say the 290hp is plenty and it gets decent mileage (19 comb with AWD) plus the are both pretty nice.

I just love the way the new Durango looks.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365563633

But Ive never had anything that consistently got over 20mpg, I dont care about fuel economy that much.

If you start looking at minivans, I remeber reading about a caravan r/t that had the 283hp v6, It was rated pretty decently IIRC.

As little as I care for Ford, I think the Flex looks pretty good.

Minivan, No. I'm thinking of xc-90/ cx9 sized vehicles. She does have her eye on a gmc terrain...

Terrains are pretty small, went and test drove them with a friend.

The 6 ran very well. but gets similar mileage to your cx7.
The 4 was slow, and in AWD (im assuming you want that) I think the economy is like 20/29.

Good thing is if your looking at the terrain, the terrain is cheaper compared to the equinox at the same equipment level.

I think the Acadia/Enclave/Traverse is the size you are looking for. I like them and havent heard of any huge common problems, only advice is dont get the 19s, last time I priced them they were very high.

2012 V6 RAV4

269 horsepower, AWD and 26 hwy MPG

Sorry, couldn't resist

Buddy of mine bought his wife an equinox, she loves it. Direct injection 4 bang gets almost 30ish. I figured the terrain would be the gmc version of the equinox. I guess we need to test drive. I am against buying new though, it's just not my belief.

Equinox / Terrain don't get nearly as good of mileage as advertised.

They aren't that much bigger than what you currently have either.

Fuelly.com says 21-23 mpg combined for those two, nowhere near the 29-30mpg highway the love so much to advertise.

Acadia/Traverse is much bigger, but they are expensive and again the MPGs are a bit under 20 combined, closer to 18mpg in real world everyday use...

Old friend of mine has a ford explorer sport trac. He swapped in a 4 cylinder cummins turbo diesel. That thing rips, and he claims around 30mpgs. I just have a hard time grasping the fact that in this time, vehicles like our cx7 and similar size suck so badly on fuel consumption.

That's what we got for our 'family hauler', well a 2009 anyway. We're getting more like 24mpg on regular, and I beat on it when I'm by myself. it's quite quick most of the time. Faster than my brother's 'stage 1' LGT from a stop. Put light wheel/tire combo and get to low 14's. There's a guy with 16" RPF1's with big donut tires and a homemade CAI running 13.9's last I checked. 3500 towing capacity.

but the OP said no to the Rav, and it barely fits a rearfacing car seat.

Your car is a 2007. In 2007, people wanted performance, not efficiency. That's because when the 2007's were designed (2005-2006 timeframe) gasoline was rising but still CHEAP. Nearly as cheap, on an inflation-adjusted basis, as the mid-60s. Car design trade-offs are always reactive to gasoline prices. If you really want fuel efficiency, you need a car from the '80s.

A small, shitty economy car from the '80s. :idea:

My 1994 stock-power Miata gets 25 MPG and will not carry 2.5 people (safely) along with all of the crap most people think they must have for a small child.


OP wants a vehicle that is larger than his current one (which fits five properly-sized humans and some stuff) but with better fuel economy than my '80s-designed roadster.

I was just kidding about the '80s car, of course. But, they did get tremendous fuel mileage. They were also much smaller and lighter, and didn't need to meet all of the safety and emission standards that are now in place.

By the time the Miata came around in '90, fuel prices had dropped substantially ('86 was the big drop) and a performance Renaissance was in full swing.

What does this have to do with OP? Since fuel prices began spiking again starting in 2007, efficiency has once again become a driving force. If he can just hold off a little longer . . . I'll bet he'll find a lot more fuel-efficient choices in a depreciated used car. Of course, by then fuel prices may have dropped again and he won't care anymore. Such goes the cycle.

room to fit the GT35!

It's not super big but Subaru Forester. Retarded reliable, awesome in the snow. My dad has an 05 with 155K+ and just bought a 2011 XT (turbo). The 11 is so nice I would legitimately give up my Miata for it. It doesn't get great gas mileage though (about 25hwy). Supposedly the 2014's will do 30+, turbo, with cvt trannies.

Also Honda Odyssey is AWESOME. I used to hate driving it when I first got my license. Until I realized how awesome it was I could carry all my friends. And do hectic burnouts. And beat most small cars in a race. Only issue was apparently they had a "porous block" issue (ours was an 04). At around 100K miles it started dumping oil all over. Like puddles while just idling. The new ones didn't seem to be as fast. Probably because the only ones I've driven were the fully loaded super heavy versions.

That new forester looks awful in its commercials. Shame, I really liked the last body style a lot.

Here's what pissed me off....
First let's go back in time:
August 2007:
My wife had a 2002 Saturn SL2 while she was going to college. I had the Miata, a 2000 Silverado 4x4 single cab, a '78 Triumph Bonneville, and a 1950 Willy's CJ3A. She got her hospital job and she said, "now that we're married...sooner or later we're gonna have a kid. We will need a bigger vehicle, and I hate drive to work on the interstate in my Saturn that sits low. There's too many tractor trailers and I feel like I'm being blown off the road. I want something that seats 5 people and sits higher."
I said, "No problem, let's car shop."
September shows up and we hit the local Toyota dealer. We looked a a Rav-4. I hated it. She goes, "my friend has one, and I like this, but I don't want to copy off her." I'm like, "good, cause I hate this thing anyway." It was also pretty pricy I felt for what it was.
They also had a Saturn Vue. It was AWD, V6. We test drove that and I kind of liked it...she hated it.
We went to another dealer and she test drove a Chevy Equinox, (which is the same thing as a Saturn Vue). She liked it...I hated it, but I figured, "it'll be for her...get something SHE likes and be done."
That dealer was shady though and they are known to be high priced.
I found an Equinox on Cars.com for a better price at the same dealer I bought my Miata from (I bought my '99 Miata in 2006 for $6,000 cash...bone stock except for mad tyte 16" Motegi's with 103,000 on the odometer). We went to that dealer and looked at the Equinox they had, but then we both saw they had a CX-7. It was boring charcoal with boring charcoal interior, had like 38,000 miles on it. We test drove it and finally we both agreed on the CX-7. However, I didn't agree on THAT Cx-7. I didn't like the color and the price. This was Tuesday. Thursday rolls around and she's cryin the blues about how "I'm never gonna get another car, and you have all these toys...blah blah blah". I tell her, "Tomorrow you're getting a car and that's that". Found our 2007 CX-7 on Cars.com at a local dealer. Beautiful color, 2 toned black and gray interior, 31,800 miles, decent price. We go to look at it, the dude offers us a decent trade in for the Saturn...she's happy, therefore I'm happy...good to go.
Fast forward to Spring 2012.
Wife is knocked up halloween night at SEMA show in Vegas (October 2011). Says "We have the CX-7, but if I drive that to work, what would you haul our kid around in?? You can't put a baby in a Miata, and your truck is single cab...I don't want a newborn in a single cab truck."
I think to myself, "here we F'n go..."
I tell her, "remember when I had that 1995 Ford F-150 and I picked our dog up from the vet when she got spayed and I T boned that escort wagon that pulled out in front of me while I was going 55mph? Well, I wasn't wearing my seatbelt and all I had on me was a brush burn from the airbag blowing up against my wrist. In that split second of impact, I managed to grab our semi sedated dog by the collar who was laying on the seat next to me and I braced her for the impact. Take a guess what would happen if my lifted Silverado collided with a Mazda CX-7."
That is a non acceptable answer to a wife's question.
We shopped for a crew cab 2007 or newer GMC Sierra (not the classic body style).
I was pissy because you can't get a 6' bed in a 1500...it's like a 4.5' bed. Bullshit.
Then I was like, "listen...my truck is awesome and I have a lot into it and I will never get out of it what I have into it. I really don't want to sell it."
The CX-7 started making a weird grinding noise in the rear. I told her, "it sounds like a wheel bearing". We took it to the dealer, and it sure was...both rear wheel bearings. They replaced them under warranty while we were there. We walked around the lot and found a 2009 Mazda 3 Hatch (miniature station wagon). The mileage was like 31,000, the price was right...so we bought it on the spot. I like it. She drives it to work when she works, and I drive it to work when I work. It's our fuel efficient work beater, and secondary kid hauler. I figured, "why give my truck away to shell out $18,000 on another truck that gets the same fuel mileage and can't haul as much when we could get twice the fuel mileage and have a daily work commuter at the same time."
Now it's April 2013.
Our kid is not a fat kid...he is long and in the 97th percentile for his age. He is 8 months old and doesn't fit into anything smaller than 12 months old. He mostly wears 18 month old clothing. This prompted the buying of a toddler sized car seat. Now it's starting to suck trying to create room for this kid who crawls EVERYWHERE and uses every piece of furniture in the house to stand up on. I give him 3 weeks and he'll be walking.
My wife always complained about the fuel consumption of the 7 and how it required premium. It's not that it requires premium, it's that if you're going to put premium in it, why does it only get 20mpg's?? Hell, my Miata takes premium, but it also run's 13's in the 1/4 mile and gets 29 mpg's.
I don't care...it's 2013. Technology has come a long way...why the hell can't a gasoline engine make decent power in a small SUV and get good fuel mileage? This blows my mind and there is absolutely no excuse. Yes I am one of those guys who thinks the government has it all wrapped around their greedy finger...cause they do and it's BS.

Too bad they don't offer diesels in mid size SUVs here. Perhaps look around for the jeep grand Cherokee diesel they sold a few years ago? Awesome vehicles, tons of torque, and great fuel economy but will likely be hard to find.

Just sound like your wife has the new car bug. What we recommend isn't going to matter, let her pick something and buy it.

LOL. You need to take wife-control lessons from my son-in-law, God bless him.

Hell, I need to take wife-control lessons from my son-in-law.

The more I read this thread the more I'm disgusted with yours and your wifes choice reasoning.

"I won't buy this car despite it being good, because my friend has one" is one that is really blowing my mind in particular.

What I can't figure out is:

What's your main priority?

Something bigger than your CX-7 (and how much bigger?)

or

Something that gets better MPGs than your CX-7.

The CR-V, Rav4, CX-5 will certainly get better mpgs than your CX7. Heck the newest CR-V is probably bigger too (interior space).

I don't know of any gasoline 7+ passenger SUVs that get the sort of gas mileage you seem to want, at least not for $$$$. Yes it's 2013. Yes engine technology is way better than it's ever been. Minimum BSFC, actual BSFC, and BMEP numbers for the newest engines are better than ever. That doesn't mean physics has changed. Most 7 passenger SUVs are 4500 lbs, are not very aerodynamic and have huge wheels and tires. No matter how amazing the engine they still don't get that good of gas mileage.

WAIT

new recommendation

Brand New 2014 2WD Acura MDX. All of the space and luxury your wife wants. And you'll get 25mpg all day long combined.

Should be about $43k out the door.

/thread

He wants his cake, and eat it too.

"oh hi guys I want a semi-truck and I want it to get 100mpg and I want to pay 2 dollars for it IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK!! "

My uncle just got a new MDX very nice car. But he has like a 4mile commute so gets like 18mpg...Get a 08-13 (I think) year forester xt and flash tune it and you'll get better gas mileage. My dad wants a downpipe and tune becau it'll be more powerful and efficient.

Weight. That's all their is too it. If cars didnt have all the luxury, safety and security amenities they would be much more fuel efficient. But would you really put your family into a 7 seat death trap?

Probably not. But if you do, get a turbo caravan from the 80s. I bet you an tune it to get at least 30mpg.

QFT

Hey ThirdGen, any of your wifes friends have a Mercedes RL?

But seriously, CX-5 Diesel.

Truth. Here's a prime example from my garage:

This:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365715717

weighs about 300#'s more than this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365715717

Surprising, no?

I second 18psi's assessment, and also would like to see the answers to efini's question.

There are 4 ways you'll meet your apparent goal of larger + more economical. The explorer with 2.0 ecoboost is not one.

1. Used grand cherokee diesel I mentioned earlier
2. Used ML mercedes diesel
3. Used audi q7 diesel
4. Used R class benz diesel.

Yes there's a trend... diesel is the only way you'll get better mileage with a larger vehicle.

Also: I think it's completely ridiculous that your wife thinks she needs something larger than a CX-7 or equivalent to haul around ONE CHILD and his crap. seriously nuts. Either she needs a spacial clue or kid needs less crap.

I guess it's part of planning ahead for kid number 2 in the future. Also due to cx7's having a huge list of issues after warranty period ends.

OK, so, what are your priorities? space or economy? reliability?

although you haven't really answered questions posed, so perhaps I will refrain from rephrasing till you do. I'm sure you will once you have some more time though.

I have a car magazine (Motor Trend IIRC) and they have a cx5 as one of their long term testers and they were commenting how slow it is. 0-60 in 9.6 second.

I dont think I could happily drive a car that slow everyday, I like to be able to accelerate whenever need be.

How bout all of them.
The CX-5 seems decent because great economy, but I don't beleive it's much bigger than the CX-7. CX-5 seems like a great pick, but wife wants something a bit larger.
I like the Volvo XC-90, cause I love the styling of it and I favor the inline 6. It's not like we're going out tomorrow and buying something, so we have plenty of time to decide.
That's how I do it, I find exactly what I want and then I start to shop. I don't understand people who drive past a dealer and say, "I want that", and then go buy something without researching it and shopping around.

I don't understand impulse buying a car either.

but what you want doesn't exist except in the rare cases stated above..

It's interesting how this most recent post of yours is almost exactly the same as your very first post on this topic. After three pages of discussion.

(I try to shop like you do. sometimes I get the gotta-have-it's though.... hence why I own the Miata I do :giggle: )

I feel the same way, but I'm willing to sacrifice acceleration for fuel mileage.
I just need to find a happy medium. Right now the XC-90 does it for me. I will consider checking out the Acura MDX though, and others that were mentioned. I really don't care what we get, as long as she's happy and it doesn't break stuff every few months and cost me all kinds of money. I need to be a little less ---- about the car that she parks in her garage, and just worry about being meticulous about all the shit parked in my garage.

The miata was something I had to have. I really wanted a 93 RX-7, but I'm not spending 20 grand on a car thats 20 years old and has an engine that is know for nothing but problems. The amount of pleasure I get from my car almost evens out the amount of negative stereotypes I get about it at work.

I don't know what year XC90 you're looking at but I think I mentioned before, all the data I've seen has the XC90 pegged at ~18mpg real world combined. Not sure how the works with your goals.

The MDX was kind of a joke recommendation. The current ('08-'13) MDX does not get especially good gas mileage. We just took an '11 on a 1500 mile round trip, mostly highway, and I think overall we got just over 20mpg. 20.5 or something. That was 80%+ highway. PLUS it requires Premium...

However, the brand new, still yet to go on sale, 2014 MDX in 2WD form has much improved gas mileage. Huge gains over the current model. In real world use it should get better gas mileage than any other gasoline non-hybrid 7+ passenger SUV.

The Mercedes GLK Bluetec diesels get amazing gas mileage for their size, but the initial purchase price and maintenance costs blows the cost of ownership out of the water.

I like the XC90 too. We briefly considered one, I can't remember what model year it was but it was a bit older. Apparently that generation of XC90 used some GM sourced trans that was a humongous POS and they had lots of issues. I'm not certain about the newer ones.

...

Used Touareg TDI?

I will say this:

If you are accustomed to Japanese car reliability, you should stay away from European models. Volvo used to be the European exception, but I've heard bad things lately.

Hard to say how much they've been influenced by Ford ownership through the years. Now of course they are under Chinese ownership...

2014 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring First Test - Motor Trend
I thought this was relevant to those who expressed interest in the CX-5. They've apparently attempted to strike a better balance between fuel economy and performance, adding 29 horsepowers and 35 more torques to the 2.5L Grand Touring model.