V8 swap opinions
 

So I get this local classified paper and I saw an 01 5.3liter v8 out of a silverado pickup. Running and complete for $200. If I'm not mistaken, this should be the same bellhousing and motor mounts as a camaro ls1. I have a 2000 silverado with a 4.8 liter v8 and it's a cast block with aluminum heads, same as the 5.3. I always wanted to do a v8 swap and now it may be knockin on my door. I called the dude and I pretty much have dibs on it. What do you guys think? I'm thinking 5.3 in stock form with headers, 3" exhaust, and a 6 speed.

Its cast iron, so quite a bit heavier. Still pretty badass though. Now the 200, is that for EVERYTHING or just engine/transmission? I do believe you will need quite a bit more than just the two to make the swap.

I'm very intersted in Lexus v8's. You should look into those as well.

$200 for the motor complete from intake to pan. It has 178,000 miles on it. My 4.8 has 166,000 and it took a head last year. Other than that it runs like new. They are full roller engines, so that mileage doesn't scare me. I will need a trans, clutch, ecu, harness, coils, etc. I should still make out over buyin an all aluminum ls1, and should be lighter this way than a 5.0?

i ended up deciding to go v8 swap. mine will be a 4.8 iron block, bored out to make 5.1L. the iron block setup is about 100lbs heavier than the alum block. mounts and everything are identical. all LS engines (save for some early iron head 6.0's) have the crank end machined for a pilot bearing.

That's so awesome that everything fits that is LS related. My friend has a '99 SS camaro that he bought a new trans for. His stock T56 that needs mild rebuild is available to me for like $300. If I decide to do this, what rear should I use?

Plus you can always go to an AL block down the road. I have been keeping an eye on the 5.3s for awhile (among about 40 other things LOL) and they are starting to get a bit more expensive on places like ebay. 200 is a smoking deal. Do it. The heads on the 5.3s are some of the best OEMs out of the box. A lot of the LS1 guy swap them on with a mild cam and a LS6 intake for a nice budget build that will make high 300s WHP easaly.

What I want to see is someone do an LSX swap with a TKO trans rather than the T56. The T56 is so hyped up now that people are charging a premium. You can get a NEW TKO for similar cash and they will handle anything we will throw at them. I doubt I would want or need a 6th gear in a V8 Miata anyway. 5th wont be used for racing and you could make it one hell of an overdrive for a 2500LB car with 300+ WHP and still have plenty of pull with low cruising RPMs.

With a T56 for 300 though, thats pretty hard to beat:)

Some other memebers can chime in, but I would bet a 3.55 or even 3.23 gear would be great with a T56. long legs, and you wont simply smoke tires all the way to 3rd.

If you planning to register the car on the street, check your state's laws regarding engine swaps. In Ohio, for instance, you're not allowed to swap between vehicle classes, and the specific example that they give is swapping an engine from a pickup truck into a car, regardless of whether that engine family was originally offered in multiple vehicle types.

Same in many other states, Joe, though I'm sure you know that.

3rd - Have you regged up at v8miata.net yet?

sell me that T56 for $400 even.

finding a decent TKO 5spd setup is a bitch too.

i really need to get a ride in a v8 miata, so i say go for it, then meet me somewhere and scare me

They make the 5.3 in aluminum block for the Impala SS I believe. If you ever get the idea to lighten things. 5.3's are awesome engines, do it.

I am buyin this engine and that 6 speed either way, the swap is just an idea I am kicking around. I am leaning hard towards it though. I could run 87 octane, use the stock ecu from a silverado, I guess I could use my miatas oil pressure sensor? Would all my gauges work? Is there any cutting I will have to do on the cars body or chassis?

I don't think an iron block engine is a good idea in a Miata. Aluminum is 10x more expensive, but significantly less weight in front of the wheels.

my roommate bought an LQ4 (iron block ls1) for his 240z project. I give him crap all the time. he did it because it is cheap and stronger because he is convinced that he will be turboing it . . . you really need a 1000 hp datsun ??

I would never put an iron block v8 in my car.

5.3's came alum block in quite a few trucks. the one to grab is the L33. its got '799' heads and more compression. those came in ext cab 4wd 1500 trucks.

Last time I checked, the ford 5.0 that everybody swaps in there is an iron block...

Do it...I figure the more people that start V8 swaps, the better chance I'll have of picking up a half-completed project car for cheap in the future.

Ex-fucking-xactly.

And an AL block can always be swaped in with a 5.3 build. Shit take a look at the forged shortblock prices out there. They are very cheap relative to the performance you get.

I'm goin to look at / hopefully buy this engine at 8am tomorrow. Who on here thinks I can do the ls swap for under 5 grand? So far it's $200 for an engine, $50 for a 02 silverado ecu, and as soon as my comatose friend wakes up and checks his messages, $300 for a trans.

Its all in the misc. But I think its possible if you do the fab yourself.

schuylkill county huh? I say you do it because I beed to get a ride in one of these v8 beasts.

Do it please.

As I matter of fact I here by challenge you to have a V8 miata in time for the tristatetuner sonic meet. haha.

I'll never make that challenge, that's too much time and money involved to meet that goal in less than 2 months. I'm still not sure if I'm even doing this swap for sure. Everybody knows how much I love swapping ms's out every few months! So a clutch and ebc and I'll make about 240 hp now. Or I put in a stock 5.3 and make more power than my 1.8 does at 14psi, and I run 87 octane. I know the decision sounds easy, but my car got so far on the turbo setup, it'd be like starting from scratch all over again. I'm still buyin that motor and trans though. Maybe when they're in my garage and I'm trippin over em, then I'll make a decision.

Honestly with 240WHP I think your car would be about as fast with the current setup as with a stockish 5.3. The 5.3 is usualy making something like mid-high 200s WHP (most were rated at about 300HP from the factory) and it will add a couple hundred pounds. The neccesity for custom exhuast will wake up the 5.3 in a big way though over the manifolds they use from the factory, so who knows.

Actually it would be pretty awesome to get some accel data now and then some from a stock 5.3 and T56 later.

Ok i think i can add some input to this thread since I have spent the last few weeks researching endlessly about what I want my next future project car to be.

Ok, as sportage4x4 mentions and nobody seems to notice is that you can get truck motors made of aluminum. There is the L33 5.3 motor from 4x4 extended cabs or something like that. Also im pretty sure after 07 all of the 5.3 blocks went to aluminum. There is a problem though ... The oilpan dips down really low, so you need to buy a camaro or corvette pan. Additionally, the intake setup makes the motor somewhat tall, requiring a cowl hood (yuck) or (you guessed it) a camaro/corvette intake. That said, it can still be done for less since the silverado motors arent rediculously overpriced like the LS car motors. The next thing to consider is the price of the t56 transmission. You will likely have to drop more bones on the transmission alone than the whole motor. Transmissions seem to run a lot cheaper when bought in a bundle with the motor. My guess is that for around 2.5k you can setup a 5.3 aluminum truck motor + T56 with low miles on the engine, or an LS1 + t56 with higher miles but less headaches.

After all my reading, I have kind of decided that LS motors are overpriced and have began considering a LT1 + T56 swap, of which I recently saw a combo on craigslist for $1000, which is a hell of a lot cheaper ... Iron block sucks though.

FYI, LS1 vs LT1 fully dressed have about 150 - 200lbs weight difference.

I wouldn't do an lt1, totally different engine design.

Wow I'm a sacrider big time of the Gen III and IV SBC motors, and I didn't even realize they actually did this!!

The LC9 Vortec 5300 is the Flex-Fuel version of the LH6, and is found in 4WD models. SUV applications are rated at 310 hp (231 kW) and 335 ft·lbf (454 N·m) of torque.
LC9 applications:

• 2007-present Chevrolet Avalanche
• 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
• 2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
• 2007-present GMC Sierra 1500
• 2007-present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton

I've found several for under $1000.00 on car-part.com..

RUNS PERFECT, 21,463 MILES $975.00!

:idea: god I need to ditch this turbo 4 crap and just do et...

Definitely, i wouldnt try to say that they are because they are not. OTOH, for a budget build if an iron block isnt out of the question, I think the LT1 offers an awesome bang for the buck. Yes, they are older and have their flaws, but i can overlook that when saving nearly $2000 for a swap that offers similar performance. For a miata though, I would have a hard time being ok with all the additional weight to the front end. I have been looking real hard at swapping into a datsun 2X0 z car or an FC rx7, so that changes the game a little bit but the weight is still of concern. In the Rx7, dropping the AC and PS, relocating the battery to the trunk, adding a fire extinguisher and a 10" sub to the back, and swapping to an aluminum hood should do enough to make the car balanced close to 50/50. The rest can be tuned with sways, camber, tire offset, and alignment at that point.

My main point in all of this is that I would never consider an iron block LS series motor in light of the prices of the LT unless cost wasn't a concern, which it always is. Therefore if you are hell bent on the LS, I say get the aluminum block or dont get an LS.

I am not saying you need to go LT1, because I know the LS1 is way better, but rather that the money saved on a cheaper motor swap like tha can be used to reconcile the chasis. Dont forget the toyota UZ1 V8 at, i think, 4.8L and 280hp. It is all aluminum and probably the best match for a miata. It is another motor I have given some thought to and need to research more.

Whatever you do, make it yours and always keep your goals in mind because you do not want to do something that comprimises what you like about the car. If you like handling, put the weight distribution first, but if you like acceleration, have at it with whatever you think will achieve that.

Pretty amazing huh? those 07 and up truck motors are the bargain of the century! Gotta change out the pan and probably the intake manifold, but they are low mileage and get amazing gas mileage for the powah.

So I just got back from looking at the 5.3. As I said before, complete means intake to oil pan, and the guy said it was missing the coils. The coils were gone, but everything else except the spark plugs, starter, and alternator, was there. I turned it over fairly easy by hand. The fuel rails with the injectors were there, the throttle body was there, water pump, balancer, clutch fan, pulleys, valve covers, all there. $200, pickin it up Friday. As for my 6 speed buddy, he may as well not own a cell phone, cause unless I see him in person, I won't get a hold of him. So Friday I'll bring the motor home and bolt it on my engine stand. I think what I'm going to do is start stock piling parts for a swap. I.e. engine, trans, clutch, engine stuff like starter, alternator, flywheel, LS6 intake, T/A or Camaro oil pan, etc...whatever is necessary to fit this engine in my car. As for goals, I don't have any idea where to start yet...what HP do I want? What gears should I run? What clutch should I buy? I have no idea about any of this yet.

Goals to start on. I want to drive it to work everyday in the summer and get 25 mpg. I want to drive to the dragstrip on street tires, and run a 12.9 sec 1/4 mile "being gentle".
So who has engine config suggestions / gear ideas?

Unlike the LT1, you can go to an AL block if you do the 5.3 LS engine in iron. Its a mater of changing the shortblock. If you go LT1, you are

1) Stuck with iron forever.
2) Stuck with an inferior head design.
3) Stuck with an engine that as less aftermerket support, especiall in terms of tuning. LS1Edit FTW.
4) Have to do more resarch on things like mounts etc. The 5.3 will bolt up with the same mount fab that all the other LS swaps do, meaning that he doesnt have to reinvent the wheel.

The 5.3 is a much better way to go.

I am shocked that nobody has mentioned this yet:

Chevy | Camaro | Firebird Reviews, Performance Parts, Modifications - LS1Tech.com

I have been on that site off and on for years. Best info out there regarding these engines.

If you get a T56, you have pretty conservative gearing in it 9 times out of 10. And in a car this light with its limited wheel sizing, you dont want or need an aggressive rear gear either. I would go with 3.47 in the back, not 3.73 or 4.10. Honestly the 3.23 or even the 2.73 ratio you see in some OEM LS powered cars would probably be fine. And you dont have to shift much in an AutoX much that way :)


Mileage will be a cinch. M6 Fbodies regularly get 25+ MPG even with 3.73 gears, and they are over 1000 LBs heavier.

They also run low 13s box stock with a good driver in good air (aka sea level 70 degrees). So your 1320 goal is pretty conservative IF you get it to hook OK. Tire/wheel choice will be important, as will the pinion angle. Getting the rear geometry right is huge in making the car hook and go straight.

My main problem with doing an Ls truck motor swap is in getting the car street legal, because i need to use a car motor and not a truck motor, which is completely retarded but whatever ...

if you dont do the 5.3 swap, look into the vh45de. very healthy stock power numbers. they stick them into 240's (dubbed the 450sx) and boats.

- Forged steel crankshaft.
- Forged steel connecting rods.
- 6 Bolt main bearing caps with studs.
- Full-length main bearing girdle.
- Lightweight, floating pistons with molybdenum coating.
- Sodium-filled exhaust valves.
- Cross-flow cooling system.
- Hydraulic lash adjusters.
- Single-row silent timing chain.
- Coil-on-plug ignition system.
- Redline of 6900 rpm, Or 7400 RPM's with a modified ECU.
- Compression ratio of 10.2 to 1.
- Bore of 93 mm and stroke of 82.7 mm.

280hp/300ft/lb in na form.

the Lexus v8 (1uzfe) that 18psi was talking about has around the same compression, less hp (253) same torque, (300) but it does have vvti.

i dont get the whole has to be a car engine thing. so tell them its an LS1 from an F-body. once you put an f-body pan and intake on it, how will they know?

personally, i'm building a high revving LS engine. 83mm crank from the 4.8 with the 5.7's 99mm pistons. gives 5.1L. arp rod bolts, and a good damper and the bottom end should hold together for 7500rpm. i'm trying to score a set of Z06 243 heads simply because of the lighter valves. i have a set of 799 heads if all else fails. a cam in the mid 220's to low 230's duration, and all associated valvetrain parts shoud make the engine breathe up that rev limit.

i'm getting sick and tired of trying to find a non abused T56 in the sub $2000 range (canuck here, eh). seriously considering other trans options. as for a rear gear, the standard 8.8 T-bird 3.27 gear should be just about perfect.

Thats what I am wondering. Do they check a serial number or require documentation of the engine of some type?

And I hear you on the T56. That is the most hyped trans by far. Take a look at a TKO500 or something like that. You can get them new from Summit for about 1300 (not counting the shipping of course). A Miata has 0 use for a 6 speed with that engine. 4th will go faster than the aero can handle safely and then 5th can be a super low rpm overdrive since the engine will have such an easy time moving such a lightweight car.

Good call there, IIRC there is a shop in Australia that specializes in the 1ZFUE. Sounds pretty sweet.

Several years ago I had my hands on a 1990 240sx SE with basically no engine/trans inside it for $150.00 with a mostly straight body. The basic plan was the GM LQ9 & T-56 which was about the most bang for the buck that could be found.. Much as I LOVE the LS1 engine, I'm just NOT going to pay $4000.00+ for one.

Only problem was, at the time there weren't many vehicles around the LQ9 could be readily found inside, so I was pricing out 100k mile motors for $2500 and up. Naturally now the car is gone the motors can be had with lower mileage for under $1k.. Lost the place I was keeping the car and had to sell it, sadly. :vash:

The intake an oil pan are non-issues honestly. You won't have quite the torque using the lsx intake vs the truck manifold but quality aftermarket units can be had pretty cheap, and plenty of LSx car owners are upgrading and would probably sell off the stockers.

I still am unsure about the swap, it's a 50/50 thing for me. I looked at it like this: as bad assed as an lsx miata is, who wants to pull up next to it and race? Everybody who pulls up next to a turbo miata thinks, oh great, another import with an intercooler, and the race is on. I think if someone pulled up next to my car and saw the rollbar and heard the rumble of a v8, they'd say, "f this". I don't know about everybody else, but I like when a mustang or even a vette pulls up next to me, leaves the line screamin first gear almost to the rev limiter, only to realize they just saw a 4 cylinder pull away from them. It's weird, I just don't know what I would rather have.

Here's the thread you want to read on the L33 swap. Good luck with the project. Another convert!

[NA] L33 Conversion in a '93 - MX-5 Miata Forum

Wow! Wonder what kind of fuel mileage that bastard would get!



EEK!

:eek::eek:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0160_large.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0164_large.jpg

Don't think I'd get in that car while moving.. Wouldn't want to be around it on the street either. I'm all for homebrew engineering and everything but that brake bracket scares the SHIT out of me!

Yeah, the brake part is a bit shaky. I was more referring to what is needed to swap the L33, what accessories are needed, etc.

Me too, big time.

Thats why you get a nice dual exhaust and they think you are a ricer because you have a realy mild 2" dual setup with great mufflers. And a pair of electronic cutouts from QTP or similar. Not much rumble most of the time. Lots when you want it. Better yet, kick the snot out of a bunch of retard with too much of their parent money and a bolt-ons 4.6 without even opening the cutouts :)

I have heard that here in cali, they check the VIN number to see what car the motor came from, which leads me to wonder where, exactly, the vin number is on the LS series motors. If it is on the oil pan, that would make me a very happy camper and I would forget all the other motors I have been considering including:

1uz-fe: cheap engine and tranny ... bitch to mate up, no conversion kits.
4h45-de: Need to check this one out
Ford 5.0: Cheap, reliable, heavy as shit
LT1: Look up one item
VQ35: Lots of work for run of the mill power with no room for upgrades (basically maxxed out from the factory) price? fittment? transmission? dunno
LS1 + T56: Best all around performance, but wayyyyy overpriced
5.3LS + T56: Perfect power level, cheapish, unsure if i can get it street legal.
SBC: Cheap, Amazing aftermarket + knowledge, not likely to pass emmissions though and crappy fuel economy.

BTW, My intentions is to swap into an FCS3 RX7 chasis and not a miata .. just a little more room in there :)

That looks scary for real. I can see calipers falling off, brackets bending and locking up tires .... Brake fabrication is an area I dont care to get into, unless I worked with someone who knew what they were doing.

L33 swap, or any truck 5.3 will at minimum require:
- replacing the oil pan and intake manifold with corvette/camaro pieces
- a t56 tranny (assuming you want manual)
- custom driveshaft to connect with whatever rear you run
- modified clutch lines, prolly a new master/slave cylinder and custom lines.
- Modified throttle linkage. L33 uses a motorized throttle, so from what I understand, you need to swap in the silverado pedal assy
- A custom wiring harness will have to be made by mating a miata harness with the LS harness, at least if you want to run the stock ecu which you would have to be a retard not to as it is 100% tunable and 100% awesome
- AC, PS ... i dont have a clue
- beefier diff (for obvious reasons) Ford 8.8 seems the standard
- hope this helps?

Dont forget getting decent brakes :) No ghey brackets either.

This is an interesting question. The states that specifically disallow engine swaps between vehicle classes do so for emissions reasons - light trucks are in a different category than passenger vehicles. Some quick googling and searches on ls1tech don't show an easy way to absolutely identify the origin of an engine - ie, I can't find that the VIN of the original vehicle is fixed to it anywhere. So the thing to do may (for these engines that were used cross-platform between cars and trucks) be to claim its origin as from a passenger vehicle instead of a truck.

The ECU apparently does have the vehicle VIN on it.

Also note that federal emissions laws prohibit engine swaps of an older engine into a newer vehicle - this is illegal everywhere for street use. This generally won't be an issue with LS series engines since typically the miata shell being used is older than the engine.

good to know, thanks

Oh noes, my 91 motor into my 99. I guess they can add it to the charge of no cats while they are at it.

So picked up that motor today, then I signed up for v8miata.net. I told you guys, once this motor is in my garage I'll make a decision. Well it didn't take long. Now the fun begins!

IIRC the iron block 5.3s are rated at 285HP, though its more like 300-320. Guys on LS1tech are seeing low 300WHP on their trucks with a LTs/Exhaust and an LS6 intake.

Put a cam in it too :).You dont need low end TQ :)

I need to get the hell out of california, stat ... smog laws are making planning a future project (on a budget) a serious headache.

I gotta check the local bone yard and try to find a thunderbird turbo coupe to yank the 8.8 IRS unit. As for the motor, I'm thinking cam, intake, maybe heads but probably not. I wanna keep it simple and cheap, but still make close to 400hp.

Move to my area, no smog, just inspection.

Thirdgen, can you do your own fab? If not, getting this thing done for $5K is a pipe dream. Everything that goes into the swap has been rehashed in quite a few threads here, and you can also go through npartist's page to check out his 3 documented swap builds using all three of the different kits.

That T56 that needs a rebuild will be $500 minimum if you can't do it yourself. They run about $400 just for the labor then you gotta pay for parts. Then nickel and diming that goes on for shit like the fuel system ends up running closer to a grand, then the exhaust on a budget will still be another 800-1000. What headers do you plan to run? Sanderson shorties are cheapest but still need to be modified.

I could go on and on.

Frank

You don't need a TC. Any 5.0 or 4.6 Thunderbird will have it. That opens up your choices.

Awesome, my ls1 camaro pal claims that if I don't launch the car hard, the stock miata rear should hold up. What size is the stock rear? I know it has 4.30 gears, but what is it? A 7.5"?

7"

The biggest thing is dealing with a Miata rear end that is designed to have the PPF holding the nose up. It would hold up in the sense that it holds 270whp in turbo Miatas.

Can I do my own fab? Does Charlie daniels play a mean fiddle? I am a fabricator by trade. If I had some sort of blueprints for a frame kit, I could build it. As far as headers, I'd buy em and get em jet hotted. I could build the exhaust though, exhaust bending / welding is my specialty and my passion.
Fuel system, what do I need to mod on that? My 5.3 fuel rail has a vacuum fpr on the rail. Would a walbro 255 be sufficient?