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wadda think?
Do you think this was worth the effort?
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...=417646&st=475 start at page 1 and see ALL the work he put into it. Now it seems like he's mr. moneybags, and expect for his hard-on for the s2k engine, he seems to do things right....but I feel like the engine work was a waste. He might have HP at 9K, but it lacks torque like a mofo. |
he did a good job...must be loaded though.
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yeah I'm not saying he didnt do a good job. but the engine choice? I dunno...and yes, I'm very jealous of the pocketbook used in this build.
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I can't see the point in going to all the work and cost just put that engine in a track car. I thought I read in the m.net post that he was planning to add a turbo... which is another project in itself. But that would make a quick car. I suppose it would be a porsche/vette beater at track events - but a good driver can do the same in turbo miata with original engine... for a lot less. That kind of dough could buy some very cool cars.
Scott, move back home with mom and dad. Think of all the extra income you'll have. :gay: |
Originally Posted by m2cupcar
(Post 132380)
Scott, move back home with mom and dad. Think of all the extra income you'll have. :gay:
dont think my wife will like that. but yeah, if he was planning a turbo...and freaking 1.8L swap with headwork & cams would be simple/cheap and output similar results, without all the hassle of the swap, the ecu :confused:, the gauge pod :confused:, etc. |
after all that money, he's still gonna get smoked by a stock 1.6 greddy
:greddy2: |
lots of effort for the performance of a greddy.
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he's got 20 ft-lbs on me. stock.
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Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 132407)
he's got 20 ft-lbs on me. stock.
:gay: Why do hondas make so little torgue? Short stroke or something? |
There's a 1990 miata with an s2000 motor just put up on cr.net. Dedicated track day car, asking 15,500. It looks like it was done very right. There's a lot of people with money out there, I guess 15K on a toy isn't that outrageous.
http://clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10273 |
Anybody else sketched out by that "modified front subframe?"
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Originally Posted by Fyrestrike
-The engine makes 150lbs of torque from 6000-8100rpm (a testament to how incredible an engine the F20C is)
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5
(Post 132414)
this is a totall waste. Not a sleeper not fast and definetly not as cool as a turbo miata
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its sooooo clean i love the paint
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That torque is typical of a good 2.0L inline 4. The fe3 9:1 compression makes just over 140ftlbs and the 10:1 model around 150. Of course the fe3 is now under $600 used. :gay: IMO the reason this was done was because this guy just really loves this engine and of course for a "cool factor" among a certain crowd. I've driven numerous vtecs and I just don't get off on having to rev so high to get power.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 132409)
lol
:gay: Why do hondas make so little torgue? Short stroke or something? I think it's awesome. Torque, schmorque. And Magna, you're comparing apples to oranges. Of course your BOOSTED engine makes more torque at lower revs.. |
without torque you got nothing. It's just using math to the advantage of producing a high HP value. since Hp = T x N / 5252
150rwtq @ 10k = 282rwhp 150rwtq @ 12k = 342rwhp but, it doesnt really matter....since the torque is low and flat it means the car is only accelerating at the same rate even if you can hold the revs up high, and at 150rwhp, thats not going to scoot around town very fast. between 4K - 6K I'm making a relatively flat 170rwtq. but only making 200rwhp...by my redline he's making about the same HP, but I suspect even if I have to keep shifting throughout the gears I'll win. |
I just spent an hour looking at that thread....:gay:
Thats alot of fucking work....it seems kinda silly to me to do all of that work...but I guess he’s a tad different in the crowd. But really, with that kind of money....I would have done something different. But in the end....I'm still VERY impressed. :bigtu: Vash- |
Like I said- that's not "little" torque for the displacement. The FE3 has the same bore and stroke and makes the same torque at 10:1 static compression. 150ftlbs in a Miata is very nice- I think knocking torque is silly - it's what gets the car moving. I'd take torque over hp anyday for just about any kind of racing, rather than having a giant offset of hp to torque.
I think magna's point was that this guy went to a lot of work to put that engine in and the net result isn't much different than a turbo miata with stock engine. |
that's my point as well....I mean I give props to the build, and I like the rest of it, I just think the choice of motor was intereting.
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If I were going to that much trouble there'd be an LSx under the hood.
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar
(Post 132478)
If I were going to that much trouble there'd be an LSx under the hood.
And really, the more I think about it, my desire for a monster is growing more and more. :) Matter of fact, I got a call from my father yesterday. He has a nice SBC he volunteered to get the party started. :bigtu: Decisions, decisions. I have both a Ford 3.9 out of a late model t-bird, and and an olds 455 cid 10.5:1, that need homes already. Plus a miata 1.8 motor too... |
my name is vash, ive been banned once....it can happen again....
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Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 132481)
:werd: that's what I was thinking too.
And really, the more I think about it, my desire for a monster is growing more and more. :) Matter of fact, I got a call from my father yesterday. He has a nice SBC he volunteered to get the party started. :bigtu: Decisions, decisions. I have both a Ford 3.9 out of a late model t-bird, and and an olds 455 cid 10.5:1, that need homes already. Plus a miata 1.8 motor too... I still want to see a LSx miata....hmmm I like my turbo 4 but nothing like a v8... to bad a DOHC V8 won't really fit |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 132472)
and at 150rwhp, thats not going to scoot around town very fast.
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Originally Posted by kotomile
(Post 132468)
And Magna, you're comparing apples to oranges. Of course your BOOSTED engine makes more torque at lower revs..
I also think that the s2k swap is a waste of resources. |
Originally Posted by wildfire0310
(Post 132496)
Ben do it, man find a cheap miata and monster it... shit man I even volunteer my time...
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Originally Posted by Vashthestampede
(Post 132495)
my name is vash, ive been banned once....it can happen again....
haha....cause i quoted what they wrote on the s2k forum....wow :td: Vash- |
oh haha. i thought those were your thoughts....next time use quotes
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Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 132504)
No, you're missing his point. Magna's saying his set up makes more power for less time, labor, and money. He's right.
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He brags and brags about the numbers, but I really wonder whether he understands the point of a swap like that. If you just want to go fast, doing a turbo is the way to do it. I'd bet that my car would smoke him on a track, even with 25 less rwhp.
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jesus christ that is the most annoying forum ever.
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ok here's my next question....what makes the F20C so far more superior? He still had to load it with cams and crap...do the same with a miata engine and wouldn't be far off...right?
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The BP will never rev to 28k like the stupid Honda motor.
I got a chance to drive an NA with a 99 1.8 w/ cams and ITB's and a standalone. Put down 175 hp and, IMO was fucking brutal. And easy--just bolt on some stuff, tune, and go. |
It all depends on whether you drank the Honda Kool-Aid or not. Up until 2002, I had nothing but Hondas since 84, and they make great motors - especially if you like to rev the snot out of them. However, my 1.6 Miata's a pretty great little motor too, and it revs just as sweetly as my old Civic Si. But in 02, I got a GTI 1.8T - it had honest-to-God torque below 4k but felt like a garden tractor over 5500. Once i get the Miata boosted, I'm expecting the torque AND rev-ability.
Just have to remember that it's a S2000 fansite, and since they're all Honda types, low-torque high-rev is their religion. |
yep as soon as i posted a dissenting opinion and got this flack from them what frickin ricers
LoL... I really hope thats someone from the site who made a new SN to screw with you alex.... REALLY hope... If not...well then may the lord help there poor, confused soul. ok first of all its a track car not a street car get that straight, second the miata drive train blows turbo or not, the s2000 engine makes way more power na than a miata motor,and all he has to do is buy the 2.7 storker and that motor will make way more power than any miata motor turboed. as it is right now the S motor making 232 rwhpis great considering that the header is just temporary untill the custom header arrives and not to mention the cams.with that the S motor will make more power alone with the new header and cams then a miata motor turboed........I tell you what how bout you bring you car to the track and se if you can hang with the M2000, better yet ill have my Rx-7 there lets see if you can hang with that first. its not cool that you come on this thread and bash or hate on ppl you dont know,and claim that the miata turbo is faster or makes more power than an NA s2000 motor, I got a question for you what do you think will happen if he did go turbo with the s2000 motor and a car that wieghs 2000lbs? one way more power than the miata drive train. so get outta here with that crap.. you wanna see what will out run what come to the track this weekend bottomline. and remeber its a (TRACK CAR) God i hope they reply back i so wanna rip into there honda asses. And see if maybe i get banned :rofl: And bochet who i think is a member on the other sites tried to bust me out WTF is that about. Man if that guy was around i would bust him up showwing everyone i bought a Bryce Courtney book off amazon.com He probably has no clue what it was about anyway. |
Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 132664)
I got a chance to drive an NA with a 99 1.8 w/ cams and ITB's and a standalone. Put down 175 hp and, IMO was fucking brutal. And easy--just bolt on some stuff, tune, and go.
there you go, saved yourself a ton of money, time, effort and end up with just a good of a car. Throw in the same AEM ecu, do some headwork with cams, rev the shit to 9K and be happy. I'm still perplexed by running the s2k ecu & gauge pod. |
I think its pretty bad ass. Shame he hasn't boosted it though.
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So he seems like a pretty big idiot if he doesn't realize the benefit of Cost per performance. I mean yeah he might be able to turbo that motor, but god would that cost a lot. I mean hell I think miata turboing costs a lot and that's only like 3 to 4k. My build should put me somewhere around 1k or less, granted right now I'm only looking at 8 psi, but that could easily change since I'm running MS. Someone really didn't tell honda guys that Torque is the name of the game. I mean Horsepower is a number that is directly derived from an equation using torque. So if your torque blows why is it benefitial to the HP? BTW...the miata is pretty even for torque and HP...i've got the dyno to prove it, but I do enjoy my G/F's. MR2 because even though it weighs more and doesn't have substantially more HP the torque is deffinately there.
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This guy did it all wrong. You are supposed to swap the turbo Miata engine into the S2K.
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I love their logic behind it all. "The miata motor was designed in the 80s!" What the hell kind of argument are you making? Shit the DSM motor (4g63) was made in the 80s too and still is a beast. Someone please plot their fucking dyno of a 1.6 or 1.8 w/ a turbo against his POS and post it there. I will love to watch them flame it somehow.
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he spent all that cash on a swap and then put fucking Prosport gauges? Those things are for the broke ass fool who wants Defi looks but Napa Gauge Performance... what the hell?!
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce
(Post 132741)
I love their logic behind it all. "The miata motor was designed in the 80s!" What the hell kind of argument are you making? Shit the DSM motor (4g63) was made in the 80s too and still is a beast. Someone please plot their fucking dyno of a 1.6 or 1.8 w/ a turbo against his POS and post it there. I will love to watch them flame it somehow.
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Originally Posted by jayc72
(Post 132739)
This guy did it all wrong. You are supposed to swap the turbo Miata engine into the S2K.
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce
(Post 132741)
someone please plot their fucking dyno of a 1.6 or 1.8 w/ a turbo against his POS...
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9048/fuckhondael4.png |
put the data into excel.
then you can just do a "finite element" integral. RPM1-RPM0 * (TQ0+TQ1)/2 = AREA1 then drag that equation down the list so it gives you an area for each segment and sum em up. or much easier: add all the tq values, divide by the number of datapoints, then multiply by the RPM spread. |
There trying to flame me. :rofl: and they suck at it. wtf
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Hey i think it is pretty cool. May not be the most powerful miata ever made, but it is something sorta different and should be quick enough to be fun. OTOH, it really isnt a motor made to be turboed seeing that it is an aluminum block and has cams from the factory that are made for very high end HP (which apparantly upgraded to even more strung out cams). Seems to me that an SR20, FE3, 4g63, and maybe a few other motors would be better suited to a future turbo upgrade, but the motor in it now is probably one of the best for a low displacement NA setup. Anyways, I wont rag on it because i think it is pretty baddass.
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Agree, Akaryrye. I guess I have an appreciation for it since I had a few Hondas, one of which revved to 8500 and pulled HARD (above 5500 anyway :gay: )
IMHO, a Miata engine with cams, itbs, etc. still FAILS when compared to the F20C because the Miata engine with all that trash attached is maxxed out. The F20C uses 9k redline and 240bhp as a starting point, and can easily go higher from there. |
I was waiting for someone to post up, "What, you couldn't find an LS1?"
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:werd: He stated in there somewhere that he wanted an NA solution. The guy loves the engine and that's the only reason he needs. The difference comes in the opinion as to how each would approach their own track Miata. If you don't have an affection for a high revving, high hp to torque disparity - then it will be hard to understand. I wouldn't do it. For the work, I'd definitely have the SBC for the 400hp/400ftlbs. And when gets boring you can upgrade that. :D
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The coolest cat of them all once said:
"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." |
the mother fuckin mods edited my posts wtf they play dirty there. I love how they act like all miatas make maybe 250whp :rofl: what fucking ricers.
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bastards edited my posts wtf that was grade a inquisitiveness. What losers.
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what moron built a tial v-band turbine housing manifold, with an old-school WG flange?
http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/594799.jpg moron |
The whole time I read that I just kept thinking he should of spent the money on an LSX if he like the miata or gut the ever living shit out of an S2K? IDK...not impressed.
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Did anyone else lol at the end of this thread when he parts out the car in order to go lsx swap?
Was a cool thread overall though. |
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