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Old 07-15-2010, 05:06 PM   #41
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smart man. spend a little more now and enjoy the clean/beautiful welds of a TIG.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:36 PM   #42
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Soldering is a reasonably close analogy to TIG. It seemed more like gas welding to me though, just change out the open flame for an electric arc and it's about the same.

+1 on the community college course Joe... I got my employer to foot the bill when I took the TIG course, it was great to use up someone elses material/gas/rod/electricity to learn on.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I was wrong- it's the 180 that runs on 120, the 165 is 240 only. (Seems oddly backwards.)
Indeed it does.

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Are you trying to weld outside? Seems that any process which involves shielding gas would be a tad iffy.
Yes, unless I'm in a friends garage. Usually I'm in the engine compartment, tucked up under the car or in the bed of my truck so it seems to provide enough protection from errant wind. If worse comes to worse a slight increase in gas flow and some strategically placed pieces of wood, cardboard or canvas to divert the wind will do the trick.

You are definitely right though, to much wind will blow the gas away and result in porosity and degradation of weld quality.

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I'm pretty fortunate, space-wise. My apartment is on the ground floor, and has an attached 2 car (tandem) garage. There's only one 120v outlet in it, but as I said, it's a short run to the 30A dryer outlet in the laundry room, and if I really wanted to get creative, the 50A range outlet is on the other side of the back wall on the garage.
Looking for a roommate?
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:06 PM   #44
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Soldering is a reasonably close analogy to TIG. It seemed more like gas welding to me though, just change out the open flame for an electric arc and it's about the same.
Having sex with a goat could be a perfect analogy to TIG, but I wouldn't know. I've only ever used gas rigs for brazing- it's the tool of choice for assembling fittings onto RF transmission line, which is basically just copper plumbing pipe on a very large scale (and with a second pipe in the middle.)



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+1 on the community college course Joe... I got my employer to foot the bill when I took the TIG course, it was great to use up someone elses material/gas/rod/electricity to learn on.
Somehow I doubt my employer will feel that TIG welding is a relevant skill for me to possess in my job as an electrical engineer. Soldering, yes. Welding, not so much.


Sidebar: I learned how to do boolean search operations on eBay today. (hustler,AIDS) is equivilant to hustler OR AIDS.

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Old 07-15-2010, 06:12 PM   #45
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How easy is it to tack weld with a tig? Assuming the thing you are tack welding is held in one hand.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:30 PM   #46
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How easy is it to tack weld with a tig? Assuming the thing you are tack welding is held in one hand.
As easy as shitting in the toilet. Nice tacks too, very small so you can cover them up and you wont even know they were there.

You can also tack with a mig because it's a little easier(like shitting your pants) and flow it in with a tig without any filler in that spot and it comes out pretty good too.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:55 PM   #47
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As easy as shitting in the toilet. Nice tacks too, very small so you can cover them up and you wont even know they were there.

You can also tack with a mig because it's a little easier(like shitting your pants) and flow it in with a tig without any filler in that spot and it comes out pretty good too.
Word, on both points.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:08 PM   #48
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I don't mind slow. In fact, I kind of prefer slow. Slow is easy to control.
You will not think that once you get the hang of it, and weld more often.
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:46 PM   #49
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Ok, so the Miller Diversion 165 and the Hobart EZ-TIG 165i appear to be the exact same machine in a different color, albeit sold with a different torch. The Hobart is $1,299 including the foot pedal, the Miller is $1,299 without the pedal, which is $139, after which you get a $50 mail-in rebate.

Thoughts?

And yes, I've been perusing eBay and Craigslist, and have found a couple of used units for less. Been downloading a lot of manuals. Trouble is that they're all based on older non-inverter technology (read: lower transform efficiency) and thus have a much higher primary current requirement, so they won't be running at anything near rated capacity on my meager 30A supply.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:06 PM   #50
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Ok, so the Miller Diversion 165 and the Hobart EZ-TIG 165i appear to be the exact same machine in a different color, albeit sold with a different torch. The Hobart is $1,299 including the foot pedal, the Miller is $1,299 without the pedal, which is $139, after which you get a $50 mail-in rebate.

Thoughts?
At first glance, you may want to double check to be sure, the Miller carries a 3 year mfg. warranty parts and labor, 5 year on rectifier parts. Hobart carries a mfg .1 year parts and labor. Other than that I don't see much of a difference.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:47 PM   #51
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Buy a 10-15 year old heavy duty machine with the 700 you were talking about spending. It'll weld anything you'd like, will never overheat, and if you need to sell it, you'll probably get the 700 back out of it. The older ones also lack the computer drivers in them that always seem to go nutty.

The Miller/Hobart line seems to have less ***** to turn wrong compared to the Lincoln's.

As far as bottles- figure out where you can get them filled LOCALLY if you get the bottle with the gun. I did not do this, and so whenever we have to fill the bottle, it has to be driven 60 miles each way to replace. We have a 110cf bottle, and at 15-20psi of pressure we have to run on breezy days in the barn, it goes quick.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #52
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IIRC, Hobart bought out Miller or vice-versa several years back
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:05 PM   #53
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the Miller carries a 3 year mfg. warranty parts and labor, 5 year on rectifier parts.
You make an excellent point.


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Buy a 10-15 year old heavy duty machine with the 700 you were talking about spending. It'll weld anything you'd like, will never overheat, and if you need to sell it, you'll probably get the 700 back out of it.
Like I said, the big problem I'm seeing with the old inductive machines is that I can't meet their electrical supply requirements. At 220v, the Diversion machines only draw 20-25A at full tilt boogie, so I'm going to be able to get a lot more power out of them.

The Miller/Hobart line seems to have less ***** to turn wrong compared to the Lincoln's.


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As far as bottles- figure out where you can get them filled LOCALLY if you get the bottle with the gun.
There's an AirGas shop five minutes from where I work.

One thing I'm not clear on the economics of rent vs. buy when it comes to the bottle. I can get a new 40-60cf bottle off eBay for $100-$115 shipped, so that's kind of attractive. When you rent a bottle, is there a monthly charge, or just flat-rate plus deposit?
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:21 PM   #54
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Time to upgrade the wiring in your garage!

AirGas will only take their bottles (at least the one here is that way). When you rent, you pay the 5 year lease up front. When you go to get the bottle "filled", you exchange bottles, so even if you found a company to take the Ebay bottle, you will be handed an old filled one in its place. No place around here fills the bottles on site anymore because of liability reasons.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:26 PM   #55
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One thing I'm not clear on the economics of rent vs. buy when it comes to the bottle. I can get a new 40-60cf bottle off eBay for $100-$115 shipped, so that's kind of attractive. When you rent a bottle, is there a monthly charge, or just flat-rate plus deposit?
Hmmm? I'm not sure about the rental, I purchased mine.

However, if you do purchase one(especially on Ebay), ask for the test date. Each bottle is stamped with a test date which is good for 10 years IIRC. If it's outside the time frame it will have to be tested and recertified before it can be filled resulting in extra fees.

This shouldn't be the case with a new bottle but you never know. It could be a "new old stock" type of item.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:29 PM   #56
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So no sense in buying a bottle, then. I'll have to stop by the shop some time and chat. Off hand, what does the 5 year lease typically cost on a mid-size cylinder?


I wish I could upgrade the wiring easily. I'd been hoping that I could use the 50A range outlet, however I checked it out yesterday and it is in a place that's impossible to plug and unplug without pulling out the whole range. I could still cut a hole through the wall and splice it, but this is an apartment, and I'm trying to keep that sort of thing to a minimum. The units that will run off my 30A dryer receptacle are really just ideal, and their smaller size is also a plus.


And yeah, I'm familiar with hydro-testing from both paintball and beer dispensing.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:29 PM   #57
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all the bottles we use are rented.flat rate when you fill up.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:30 PM   #58
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That is the way Tractor Supply does it. You pay for the bottle when you buy your first tank, then after that you exchange your empty for a full one and just pay for the gas.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #59
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I think that's where we get it too. Its convenient cause you don't have to worry about how long you keep it. Whether its a month or a year, the fee will be the same to refill
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:47 PM   #60
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I was real lucky when I bought mine. My cousin new a guy who worked for a distributor and was selling them out the back doo... ahem, I mean, selling them at a reduced rate and I don't rember the specifics.
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