What is the best proof that a little H2 generator will not get you better MPGs? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-03-2010, 09:06 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,980
Total Cats: 14
Default What is the best proof that a little H2 generator will not get you better MPGs?

I am getting tired of seeing people post that you can make some H2/O2 bubbles in a mayonnaise jar while driving down the road and get an extra 5 MPG. Anyone know of a good site that explains/proves why this is completed BS?
rmcelwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 09:08 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

If it was that easy, you think the car makers that are trying to meet CAFE standards wouldn't have incorporated such a simple system if it worked?

My disproval via "it would have been done by now".
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 09:13 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bellingham, Wa
Posts: 2,732
Total Cats: 3
Default

Didn't the mythbusters bust this?

Edit: Check around 1:40

wayne_curr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 09:22 PM   #4
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

Chemically doesn't it take more energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen than you can then get from burning the products? I think the laws of physics are a pretty good standard.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 10:17 PM   #5
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,326
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
doesn't it take more energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen than you can then get from burning the products?
Yup. Which is the reason why the majority of industrially-produced hydrogen is extracted by steam reformation of natural gas or other hydrocarbons, rather than by electrolysis

That's right, America. Hydrogen is a fossil fuel.

Of course, these claims could just be a conspiracy forced on us by the cabal which consists of the oil companies, the automakers, and the republican party.

Perhaps Hyper can explain to us why it is, in fact, not true.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #6
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,980
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne_curr View Post
Didn't the mythbusters bust this?

Edit: Check around 1:40

The guy I am currently arguing with actually posted this video as proof that it DOES work (the mythbusters built the thing incorrectly <G>).
rmcelwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:01 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,685
Total Cats: 216
Default

Yah, this is low level chemistry.
There are several big holes
1) Like mentioned above, the electrical energy required to form the hydrogen/oxygen from water will be significant more than the energy extracted from combusting the hydrogen. As there will be large efficiency losses.
2) The energy available in hydrogen is pretty small, even at fairly high pressures it will take a pretty big volume to keep a car driving for very long.

My conspiracy theory with this issue is that all the driveable hydrogen concept cars are SUVs and big cars, which I believe is because the backs of said vehicles contain very large storage tanks. But I could be wrong, I havent calculated how much hydrogen it would take to take a car through 100 miles of city driving, but it should be a lot.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:54 PM   #8
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,669
Total Cats: 36
Default

BMW did a 7 series powered by H2. 260HP V12. Kinda cool.

It has a tank that takes up almost all of the trunk and if you put a snowball in it it will take 13 years for it to melt. No joke.

Hydrogen generation by means of a mason jar of water with baking soda in it and a wire off the alternator is however.

Nail on head folks. It takes more drag off the alternator making th H2 than you get from it. By a lot. That either the 1st or 2nd law of thermo as I recall. IIRC they have not succefully broken that yet.
Sparetire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:55 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 602
Total Cats: 0
Default

HHO... I'm a gassavers.org member, you'll find lots of info there. It's pretty much regarded as a joke now days. It's a bust.
Project84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:08 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Shelbina, MO (North East)
Posts: 335
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
I havent calculated how much hydrogen it would take to take a car through 100 miles of city driving, but it should be a lot.
A lot and they store it as liquid. Think the Hindenburg was a bust....
rweatherford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:25 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

Those things are failburgers.
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 12:42 AM   #12
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

On a related note, anyone heard about the mothball-concoction that raises octane? Any truth to it? Might be remembering it wrong, off to google it.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 06:08 AM   #13
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,980
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
On a related note, anyone heard about the mothball-concoction that raises octane? Any truth to it? Might be remembering it wrong, off to google it.
Mythbusters did a story on the mothballs one time. My dad told me that he used to do that back in the 60's when he drag raced on the street. I think they said it would work somewhat with the old recipe for mothballs but not now (but don't hold me to that).


Anyway, I have to ask again. Anyone have link to a site that says the HHO is BS? My attempts at posting that "this is BS and won't work because..." doesn't fly when you are arguing with idiots. I need some video of Steven Hawking saying you are screwed up in the head if you believe this.
rmcelwee is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
350 RWHP LS1 Miata - Charleston, SC rmcelwee Cars for sale/trade 37 02-15-2012 06:01 PM
Testing Waters 1997 FM Miata rflynn1 Cars for sale/trade 15 05-21-2009 12:36 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:34 PM.