This is what I hate about m.net
 

Last post of the long thread by Gary Fischman:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...=259105&page=5

Rather than foster a good discussion, the owner is just all about the money. :td:

FWIW, I fail to see where the OP was flamed/insulted. It looks to me that people were just asking for empirical proof of function and asking for a different product that they were willing to put money down for. I really hope that grinder considers making a non-shark gilled version. But they way he handled things make me think twice about buying one.

aha what a bird

m.net is the 90210 of the Miata world. The drama is recockulas.

i wish he would have said who the sponsor was and what exactly made him leave and then say if he cant deal with the communities concerns then we dont want him here anyways...
but no wait, that would make him cool, im sure he doesnt want that

it's pretty clear who the sponser was if you read the thread.

i didnt want to read 5 pages over there...someone please fill me in

the whole thing is gay. I have no respect for autokohnexion or gary

This pretty much sums it up.

well thats a shame......huh....NOT

.but thanks MX-5

so does the FM hood or the konnection hood actually work, and which one works better?

I was about to pick up an FM hood, but I'd like to make sure its going to actually move air.


btw, the people on that board are raging ------s.

There lies the problem. There is a big difference between something that looks like it "should" work based on theory and will work in real life.

IIRC, I think FM might have some vids of testing their hood with strings/etc... but I haven't seen it, you might want to see if you can get a copy. At least they tend to real world test their stuff so you might have some data from their track dog car to back it up.

No one has really tested the konnection hood so who knows? I am not willing to spend the coin to get one, get it painted, and then find out that the gills are self-defeating later.

AFAIK, Ben's homemade hood is the only one with data thus far, and I'm pretty sure that FM has data as well on their hood, but can't say with absolute certainty.

this is great
and
So you haven't done testing, you don't have an answer, and you're here to sell a new product for people who do not have questions while asking questions is offensive. I'm not surprised...sounds pretty JDM. FM's done testing and made it public, I assume this guy has not.

I'm 95% certain I'm buying a used one, I hope it works. I've seen pictures of the testing, but no videos. I don't know enough about FM to assume it will work or not. Rather than state a blind opinion, I question the quality of their turbo system cast parts from cracked ones I've seen in Dallas first hand. I also know they have a product to sell, so I'd really like to see some hard data. I hope there is something out there which suggests some real world testing.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/CF_hood.asp

http://www.flyinmiata.com/images/mis...d/IMG_5182.jpg
It looks to me like the vents are far enough back to vent some turbo heat too at speed. I think I'm going to buy it. If it doesn't work, I'll find some local FM fanboy to buy it up. I think I'll have to trim it though becuase it won't fit my car with a 99 hood. There have been greater crimes.

That guy was a fucking tool and all gary woried about was losing his 130 someodd $ a month on sponsorship. Fuck that shit you better believe if i came out with a product like that i would have some quantitative data.

at speed, there's a vacuum and it'll pull air from everywhere - stopped is different problem. But it looks as though it's far enough back for a mid mount turbo to vent heat like a chimney too.

Looks like he's a little defensive about his "engineering". I think the gills are good idea for stop light cooling. That'd work wonders for keeping the fan at bay when stopped- and limited exposure of those components around the turbo to excessive heat (in combination with the extractor).

What I don't understand is,why did Grinder go to CR.net seeking advice from a bunch of ricers on creating a hood that is suppose to help with heat issues.

He was a regular poster here in the past,so you thought he would ask here first.

I agree on the first point...hopefully this deal works out.

He didn't seem to have much of an offense, or at least an answer to intelligent questions about functionality. Since he abandoned his own thread, couldn't answer simple questions, and is a whiney douche-bag, I'll assume functionality wasn't his concern.

I would not care to deal with customers that whine like that and trash talk the product.

and there are a coupla ricers on club roadster, but there are alot of performance oriented folks there too. Just because you did all the really cool stuff that normally is not available here, doesent make you a ricer.

Granted people were a down on the shark gills, but for the most part it looked to me that rather than whining/trash talk most of the replies in a nutshell were:

1) If you made one without gills, I'd buy one.
2) Do you have some data on the functionality of the hood?

In fact, a couple of the most "critical" people went out of their way to say that it was great that he was bringing new stuff to market, but they had some questions/suggestions.

I know he's left the forum already so it's moot, but it's a real shame b/c I'd imagine that if he made a gill-less version OR had some data on the functionality of the gills, the hood would have sold like hotcakes, but instead he chose to just say "I stand by my statements." and "I don't think my services are needed here."

In the end it's a loss for everyone, loss of business for him, and the loss of a potentially inexpensive extraction hood for the miata community. FWIW, I hope he decides to build a gill-less version b/c I'd probably STILL buy one.

Have you seen some of the hideous "JDM" parts they put on? I don't care how expensive and how hard it is to get,some of that shit is down right nasty and it's rare for a reason........and that's just the "JDM" bunch,don't get me started on the "hood ride" group.They are ricers,cause 90% of the cars on there are "all show,no go".

The performance oriented folks there are also members here too,and most of them go there for a laugh.

This doesn't really need to devolve into a *vsCR type thread. There's no need. But frankly, if you read the build thread on CR, the hood's "designer" molded ebay gills to the hood because people at CR thought it looked cool. From reading the thread on miata.net, most people find them ugly. Some people like them, and a lot of those people are at CR.net. Again, not to devolve, but a lot of those folks are into appearance, and have tastes that fall well outside the norm. Also, a lot of those people are younger and less affluent. It seems to me that if I were making a product, I would make it in a manner that appeals to the majority of the community, not the minority, and I would market it towards people who can actually afford to purchase it. Furthermore, when a vendor makes claims about their product, it is your responsibility as an informed consumer to question those claims. Again, I'm not trying to bash the other forum, nor am I trying to insult the people who populate it. I'm just trying to be real.

Now, what I saw from auto's reply on the miata.net thread, I do not believe that he has the knoweledge or capability to run any real world tests on his hood. And Tom's summary is correct. Either make me a hood w/o the ugly as sin gills, or show me that they work.

has anyone done pressure testing on the miata's stock hood?

If so is that data publicly available.

there is a wind tunnel model that I've seen on m.net

How does a hood on a NSX relate to a hood on a miata?

Is this a trick question?

so he really didnt design anything if he used ebay gills and erebunis hood, he just did some body work...so its probably worthless
i assume that it does reduce the effectiveness of the erebuni hood by relieving underhood pressure in a place other than the front exducers
the only benefit i can see would be that it helps keep underhood temps down while stopped, but so will any other cut directly above the motor and turbo
if the gills are there to improve the look of the miata, then he surely is mistaken, a lot simpler and more effective method would be to insert cutouts like on the older 2.5RS Imprezas, has function and does not look like ass FWIW

I agree. The mistake is thinking that an extractor type vent is going to work as an extractor where ever it's placed on the hood. You don't a miata pressure model to see that. IMO the extractor should be just behind the rad and the "vents" at the rear of the hood should just be holes to release the trapped heat. When my fan comes on at a stop, the air that comes from the ground up by my window is like a furnace. That's why I'm putting a hole over the turbo. The extractor by the rad will serve the same purpose when the fan cuts on.

Looks like excellent glass work.

and thats all that needs to be done, and IMO it looks better too
and its way easier/cheaper and just as if not more effective
problem solved?

That hood reminds me of the hoods from the DSM world, and the EVOs.

It looks as if FM hood and Auto hood are setup to do two different things. On DSM the hoods at are similar to Auto's, which was not design to remove heat from the engine bay, they were designed to help flow air through the rad. This increase airflow though the rad and lowered temps. They worked, and been a FWD motor setup, they also helped to remove some heat from the turbo when sitting still at a light. AKA the evo hoods.

The FM hood seem to be designed with the plan to remove heat from the engine bay, now this will also increase rad airflow but in theory not as much just do to motor shit been in the way.

Now I like the look of Auto's hood and I would love to see some test with the stock hood and Auto's hood,where a coolant temp, engine bay temps and outside temps where all record and compared. That would be the best way to prove if his hood works or doesn't work.

Now as far as helping the turbo miata, in theory, the hood should flow better air through the rad allowing for cooler coolant temps, which would allow a larger FMIC and more boost. Now as far as removing turbo heat, the grills should in theory remove some heat from the turbo, maybe not as much as FM but some. Again that is all theory and without some real world data... IT ALL MEANS JACK SHIT

quite tearing this guy apart. his ideas are sound and I have no doubt that this hood would help with cooling. it may not be a perfectly engineered project, but it's a damn good design. the price is also the ONLY fair one I've seen on a excavator hood for the miata. IF these hoods are available when I get around to my coolant re-route, I will certainly reclock my turbo and change my hot side piping to use it.

by tearing into new vendors like this you guys are only furthering the problem of excessively high pricing for miata aftermarket. you should be supportive, if for no other reason than to create competition in the market and reduce the cost of parts you do want.

Some evidence in favor of Erebuni:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/737924/7

He doesn't overheat on track at ~300whp with a GT3071R@15psi on an FM stroker motor. He's got a crazy dual thermostat setup, where above a certain temp, he bypasses the heater core so everything goes through the radiator.

Lots of other cool stuff on his site, too.

-Mike

wtf are you talking about? People asked functionality questions. If it moves air, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't.

Wow, I wasn't expecting that response from mike about withdrawing sponsorship. It didn't sound like you guys were bashing him at ALL. Just constructive ideas/criticism. Some people just need thicker skin.

I'm surprised also becuase there was definitely more people ready to buy the hood as opposed to those clearly not going to buy it.

As for the thread lock right after someone posted comparisons between the two hoods (FM).....lame and typical m.net.

Too bad this isn't M.net, so I get to say this publicly.

NOBODY INSULTED HIM. The track crew (Emilio, BID, and a couple others) wanted to see data and testing, and all he had was theories, and when they started debating theories and suggesting ideas, he got pissed off, took his ball, and went home. Really fucking mature of him. Every person who had a comment on that hood joined it with "nice piece, I'm very interested", and he still decided that because we aren't a bunch of CR.net fanbois telling him that his sh1t is h0t, we aren't worth the time or money.

So tell him to grow a pair and go back over there. Debate the theories, admit your faults, and stay in the game, rather than packing your shit because a couple of people didn't like your product. Technical debate and improvement of your products based on customer feedback is an awesome way to build a really loyal following (example: Emilio). Deciding to just up and leave because your customers had suggestions is fucking childish.

I was really interested in one of his hoods, and still am, since he mentioned he'd be willing to do a pre-paid order for a non-gilled hood. I just have to decide if I want to deal with someone who acts like that when people scrutinize his product.

Gary's comments were downright assholish and insulting, and I told him as much in PM after I saw them. To his credit, he deleted them afterwards.