What military branch could aid my career best?
 

I posted in the ramble thread about joining the Air Force. I am currently majoring mechanical engineering. I am ~12 credits shy of my AA, then I plan on to transferring to the University of Florida and attempt to join the double major program (mechanical and aerospace). Just for background, I currently work at a law firm as a Legal Assistant. The job is decent, and even though my long term plan in to attend law school with the idea of practicing intellectual property law I feel that it does not aid or help my purpose as major.

Now here is the punch line, in what branch could I gain the most experience. I do not want to make a career of the military, at least not at this point. I want to get first hand experience on the field and then go from there. My first choice is the AF. Thank you for those that already commented on the subject, but there are any other members that want to chime in, please do. Thanks

If your not going to want to be an officer, then I'd join a branch asap so they'll pay for your schooling. Boot camp/basic training will even net you a few credits (as least it does in the MC, I'd imagine it would in the others too.) You might want to look into what ViperorMiata said about the AF hiring freeze, come to think of it, haven't seen much activity at the local AF recruiting station but I'm mostly around there on weekends so idk.

I spoke to Josh (Viper) and another member about the freeze, what it comes down to really is that some are not minority enough... yeah. So I guess a 90+ score plus my beautiful brown skin should get me in :giggle:

Definitely Air Froce. It's the most technology centered service and also the most "civilian like". That being said, you will need to be an officer to get any meaningful engineering experience. You might be able to get experience in the legal side as paralegal on the enlisted side but I'm not very familiar with that career field so you'd definitely want to confirm. I will also say that you might be suprised how you feel about staying in once you're there. I originally joined like you to get experience and free college but I'll likely stay in for twenty now unless they screw with the retirement package.

I was one so I can say it. DO NOT join security forces for legal experiance. Investigations would be the closest thing and short of sexual favors and some decent rank you'll never see it. Legal isn't a bad route if you go officer. Assistant is pretty much bitch work. OSI would be good but everyone will hate you and a high want to kill yourself. I repeat. Not security forces. Air Force has the highest standard of living. No offence to the other branches but airmen with their own room is way better than a private sharing a bunk. Just my 2cents

Make sure you think hard about what it is you really want out of military service. The more I thought about it, the less I wanted to do Engineering in the Army, the more I want to be a work horse in the Marines and do something I've never done before.

If you're looking to have a more civilian like experience I would say Air Force, if you can get in (I'm sure you can, you're a smart cookie). Also, don't count out the Army, they have a huge hand in engineering jobs.

Like Gearhead said, take time to sit down with all branches and see what they offer you.

I love you.

Buffon- you need to get in contact with kotomile and ask some well thought out questions. He's in the Army and like you, he's smart. I'm sure he knows some people that do what your interested in doing, get some 1st/2nd hand knowledge.

Josh- I sincerely hope you decide to join the MC, let me know when you decide. :bigtu:

I left my contact info with a recruiter from the AF. I'll let you know what he says once we talk. I will be more interested towards a civilian-like job so I see me liking the AF over branches. However, I will go ahead and give the rest a call also. Thanks for the comments.

Josh - I love you MoAr

My son was just sworn in. He's a senior and after graduation and his 18th birthday, he'll be shipped off to basic. After that....Crypto Linguist school in Monterey. Hopefully it will be a category 4 language.

<<-- Army Engineer Officer

Don't forget Navy and submarines. Not much out there that can touch nuclear power school. And, there's no curve -- if you don't cut it you're washed out. Whenever I look at resumes, completion of nuclear power school is always a big plus (if you were top of your class at NPS, you're hired on the spot).

My short resume:
BSAE (Annapolis)
MSAE (U of MD)
JD (Vanderbilt)
Navy Fighter Pilot
Attorney (IP Law)
Currently VP of Technology for large aerospace company

try to be a seabee

You should come with me to boot camp, since your so good with AR's and all. :giggle:

And then I'll be his instructor at GF lulululul.. also not crypto ling school... lang school. He doesn't learn his MOS until GF.

I am what koto is. Well, kinda. I instruct what koto does. Although he probably isn't doing what he does... etc. :giggle: Only one of us would know.

Anyways if you want moar infoz on the Army I can give you some tips. But koto can as well, but he is still deployed prolly which means he is busy killing bad guis and stuff.

^ THIS... You sir, must post MOAR!!!

I've actually been putting much thought into joining the Army or at least much more than I put in while I was in high school when every branch was knocking down my door because I got a 98 on the ASVAB (I think the only questions I fucked up were in the section where they show you the little pictures of tools and you have to match them up, I remember getting the saws mixed up).

Every male in my family has served in some capacity in his native country, a few in multiple wars so, naturally, now that I've matured, I've begun kicking around the idea.

I'll be 23, have a BS degree and will likely be able to smack the ASVAB's gelatinous ass, but there's a problem: my right knee is FUCKED. I've got a torn meniscus and a patella that enjoys dislocating at the most inopportune times (the latest being while midcoitus with the quality of female many of you wimps can only dream of). I've been slowly getting the old grouchy bitch used to running and I've been having some success but only time will tell.

If I can get through MEPS, I'd be down for whatever as long as I'm not cutting lettuce or peeling potatoes. JAG is a possibility but I feel I'd need some experience in the field before being cooped up in an office. I'm not hunting glory or medals, I just feel I'd be able to earn more respect having DONE SOMETHING other than push paper.

I'm aware that there are many ifs there so we'll see.

I fucked up the second section of the ASVAB, put the answer to Q12 in the answer slot for Q13, the answer for Q13 in the slot for Q14 and so on.:facepalm: Totally fucked my score, but it was high enough anyway so it didn't really matter.
I'd tell you to join the MC but a messed up knee would get in your way unfortunately. However, the Armys soo big (10x the budget of the MC) you could find something you'd find pride without much trouble (especially w/ that ASVAB score).

If Jake got a 98 I should get 998575973 points in this.

that would probably be your score when adjusted for affirmative action

If everyone is equal, then why does it seem that I am "less equal"?

And I am getting fucking sick of racist/sexist commercials that depict the white male as being the idiot. How do I sue over this?

Because affirmative action, There was a time that some people needed an edge based on race/religion/ethnicity/whatever. That time is over. If people are going to get preferential treatment it should be for better reasoning.

inb4Obama'sblackjobs

If you want to stay in the law field as enlisted, all branches offer Legal as a MOS option. It really all depends on what you want, the job it self will be the same with every branch, however, it's pride, discipline, among other things that will vary branch to branch. Easiest way of living would be the Air Force...the most pride would be the Marines. I knew several Legal Assistance Marines and they seemed to love their jobs, they gained a lot of experience.

FWIW, legal is one of the fields getting right sized for officers in the Air Force atm. It's one of those situations where you might be waiting a while for your slot.

Buffon, I've read your first post several times and can't figure out if you're planning to join a service before or after getting a degree or if you're looking at engineering jobs in the military or legal jobs. Please clarify.

If you're already going to have a degree, then officer is the way to go, but most officer programs have a minimum commitment upon completion of training. For example, as a pilot, you would owe 8yrs upon getting your wings... and guys take anywhere from 1-2yrs to get wings depending on what you fly. So by the time you're eligible to actually get out, you're halfway to retirement.

I'm pretty sure that aviation has the longest commitment timelines in the US Navy, but I can't imagine the other services are any less. Surface Warfare Officers used to be 4yrs, but now I think they're 6.

I'm pretty sure Seabees and Nukes also have semi-long commitments... 6-8 yrs.

You mention that you're not interested in making the military a career, but the type of jobs you're looking at, and the training the miltary will give you, they're going to want some serious payback. I don't think I'm going to far out on a limb here by saying that you're looking at a 6-8yr time-in-service for any of the highly technical jobs we're talking about.

The enlisted counterparts to these rates aren't much less for commitment. Enlisted Nukes promote very fast and have large retention bonus's.

Honestly, the best thing I can think of for you right now is being a Test Pilot... but it's not the easiest road. You have to qualify for aviation physically, pass the aviation aptitude battery, make it through OCS, make it through flight school, complete your first fleet tour, apply to TPS, get accepted, MAKE IT THROUGH THE SCHOOL, then owe your payback tour as a tester... by the time that's all done, you've got 10yrs and are a Lieutenant Commander.

Also, retention right now is through the roof. Nobody is getting out. The Navy particularly is overmanned and is booting people left and right... good and qualified people... guys who are prior Sailor-of-the-Year for their commands are being let go because they're overmanned 110% in their rate and the Navy has no more room for them.

You need to look seriously at promotion and manning levels, and pick a job that it's going to be full a few years from now, so you can promote and be successful on timeline.

I'll reply with more if you'll clarify what exactly you're looking at.

Pretty much what the other service members have already said - it's tough to get in right now and even the Army is overstrength, and so is trying to shed people. Even more so for the AF and Navy. But, I'm no recruiter and don't know if there's any particular demand for any particular skill (other than the usual linguist and EOD shortages).

Disregarding the potential lack of seats, there are other aspects to look at beyond quality of life. The AF is posh, but they promote like molasses. The USMC is at the other end of the spectrum of course.

Gearhead - Me not so smrt.

FRT - Not doing my job at all at the moment, I'm on leave! 8)

Fooger - Do you get to use your engineering experience on the job? Do you know who (in the Army or other services) does?

OP - If you join the Army as enlisted, I can virtually guarantee you'll deploy and I don't have much confidence you'll actually gain engineering experience. You would gain resume clout though. Have you considered the Coast Guard?

If your joining any branch you'll probably end up waiting a while. I don't know if this has been mentioned before but at my recruiting station, new poolee's are having to wait 1 year before going to boot camp, maybe more now. That's something I'd ask a recruiter about.

I get to use a tiny bit of actual *engineering*, which usually consists of little more than anyalyzing soils in order to place roads. In layman's terms, I'm a "dirt designer".

Actual engineering tasks are usually done by degree qualified engineers and EITs - they do things such as conducting the actual designing of bridges and buildings. To do actual engineer work which transfers to civilian world, you will need to be in either an Engineer brigade headquarters (or above) design section, or on a theater construction management (TCM) team. A TCM team is generally responsible for doing the complete design of operating bases, from designing full utilities and distribution systems to designing and overseeing the construction of a helipad. The TCM doesn't have a typical troop structure, either. I'm active duty in the Ohio National Guard. We have a TCM team which consists of something like 11 personnel. The team is extremely officer heavy; it's either a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel that is in charge, all the way down to a couple of slots designed for anyone O1 to O3, then there are 4 or 5 NCO slots, and maybe one E4 slot.

Those guys (as well as the guys in the brigade and above design sections) are the real engineers. I've been trained to do a lot of engineering tasks; I can design water distribution and sewage systems, I can design a temporary electrical distribution system, I can plan and draw a complex wood-frame structure, etc., but a lot of these would take me some time to accomplish - I just don't practice them enough to be able to breeze through it. I'm not the Army version of a civilian engineer, I am the engineer version of an Army officer.

I suspect the air force has their own design teams as well, responsible for design and certification of air-traffic utilities (runways, helipads, etc.). They are probably linked to either the Red Horse or the Prime Beef, however I know not in which capacity.

my opinion: USAF for the win!

So helpful.

From what a recruiter told me last week, they have a very long line.

lol from my experience, its been very helpful toward my schooling, since they have such a huge variety of technological support and the want for more college educated personnel in both enlisted and officer. In fact, they have a free community college, along with their own associates degree program called the AF degree (clever). I know from OUR local Air National Guard, not only does the AF support students in such a high manner, my local ANG offers the AF degree program, CCAF (community collage of the Air Force), the GI Bill, but our ANG gives a full ride to any of the local colleges including the university that doesnt touch the GI bill benefit.

The Navy offers almost identical benefits to what you're describing above... the problem is that you're never home. Longer deployments and increased workload on shore-duty due to reduced manning. 8 month cruises are the norm now in the Navy, with a backside surge cruise of 3-4 months, plus excersizes, certifications, airshows, conferences... blah blah blah. Your average sea-duty orders will have you GONE for about 75% of your tour.

Manning challenges and force shaping tools are going to go through some tough stages in the next few years. Physical readiness standards are being sharpened, bonus's are going WAY DOWN or completely away, etc...

If you're going to sign up, you'd better be damned sure you're on a mission for success.

Yeah, I am active and can pretty much vouch for this, My GI bill has not been touched, and I am scooting along in school. It is pretty family oriented if you are worried about that. I also got a degree in Dietetics and Nutrition that I didn't even really want. I have my A.S. in that and Engineering. Plus I work 0700-1600 monday through friday (this varies per job, I work in a clinic). Plus My wife has decent enough benefits, and the pay isnt terrible.

This, it is getting competitive to stay in, and I have seen 4 people leave my Squadron in the past 2 months, and since we are drawing down in Iraq, well we just have deployment slots for afghanistan. If you can't pass your PT test, I think you get 2 retries, if not you hit the road. We are closing down and re-aligning bases and missions to take advantage of manning and cut money spent. It is basically like Sam said, go big or go home.

Whats your PT test like? Your in the Navy right?

^Chicks is in the AF, notice his location.

Navy PT test is currently pushups/situps/1.5mile run.

To pass within standards as a 35yr old male, I need to do
Pushups: 30
Situps: 44
1.5mile run: 14:45

You get 2 minutes each to do the situps and pushups. I've never had a problem passing... but at 6'4" and 250lbs, I've been damned close to the fat standards the past few years. I usually cut the week before down to about 240lbs and pass fine. If I actually got my big butt back in the gym more often and shed the extra 30lbs I've been sloggin around, maybe I'd get laid more.

Instead of the run, you can also use an eliptical machine like a bitch, or swim it. I'd cut my own dick off before I'd do the PRT on an eliptical machine though.

It's a tough edge to walk though... you increase workload and optempo, have long deployments, tell guys they have to get a degree even as an enlisted man if they want to promote... and then wonder why people don't have time to work-out... then you tighten the physical standards to boot out the guys who've been doing everything you asked them to do for their careers.

Just as a point of reference for OP, my IST for the MC is:
Pull ups- Must be able to do 4(?) Max is 20, I did 14.
Crunches in 2 min- (not sit-ups) Must do 45, max is 100 I did 67 (I should be able to do much more, my little bro did 131 last week)
1.5 mile run- Must do in less then 13:30, I did 12:46 last week, shaved 30 second off the previous month.
Once your in it gets a bit harder (3 mile run in >31 minutes I think)

The Penguin made a good point in that many times the National Guard has better deals than active duty as far as payment for school goes. In my opinion tuition assistance is a joke but the ANG was going to pay for all of my little brother's state school tuition and provide a generous stipend, around $1200/month, to join. I did ROTC and they only got a few hundred/month stipend although they did fork out a lot more than state school tuition for me.

Fooger put it well when he said that he's the Engineer version of an officer rather than the officer version of an engineer. That's what I'm afraid of for you if you choose the military to further a civilian engineering career. The Army, at least, has a terrible track record (in my experience) putting people where they can use their skills. Further, you're absolutely at the mercy of the Army (AF/Navy/MC/CG) when it comes to assignments. You might find yourself as a personnel clerk for your entire enlistment.

But, if you think it might help just to have military service to list on your resume (regardless of what you actually did while in), then there's that.

Holy shit there have been a lot replies, thank you. For clarification, law is my LONG term plan and engineering is what I am currently studying. Unfortunately due to budget and personnel cuts I was laid off my job today. Although, I was offered to be re-hired within a month I must say that I have not been really happy doing what I was doing at the time. Honestly, it paid good and that's what I stuck around.

Anyhooters, I am looking to get involved with something more inclined towards engineering and here is where I thought of the AF. At this point I think I going to push hard so I can have my associates by next semester the latest, since I have all the time to concentrate in school now.

As I mentioned before my short term goal is to find a job that is inclined towards engineering. I hope that clarifies a little.

What kind of engineering... lots of posts already with suggestions... what has caught your eye?

I studying mechanical. I will attempt to doble major Mechanical and aerospace once at UF.

I'm 3 credits away from graduation and I'm currently enrolled in 12 because I'm bored. Fuck, I don't want to leave.

So, specifically you're looking for jobs in the military that will give you "field" mechanical or aerospace engineering experience? I'm kinda pushing YOU to give us more feedback. There has been a LOT of advice and you're not telling us what has caught your eye or if any of the advice here has been useful.

I can talk at length on the Navy side of the house, but there is nothing for you in the aero field unless you want to become a test-pilot, which I already talked about. I could mention Seabees, and the enlisted types do some actual engineering, but more general construction and building... all while getting shot at. Anything nuke, machinists mate, certain ships rates... damage controlman, hull technician...

So, what else can we talk about?

I think Army Sapper school is engineering heavy, but it would require you to be in very good shape, click to watch the Sapper episode of Surviving the Cut. Seabee has been mentioned but it is also physically demanding (Seabee is the same thing as SWCC right? If not then forget about what I sad about Seabee's). I can't remember if anyone mentioned anything related to working on a Submarine, you might want to look into that.
If your interested in Nuclear/Biological/Chemical (NBC) the Marine Corpes has a NBC MOS.
So, what type of physical shape are you in? Are you a good runner? Swimmer? Decent upper body strength? If not, are you motivated enough to work to get into good physical shape?

Seabees are mobile construction teams who also fight. They build bridges, bases, electrical plants, water systems, towns, buildings, roads, airports, etc.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YlH1XSlujr...seabee+day.jpg


SWCC's are Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen... they drive the boats that SEALS deploy out of.
http://navyseals.com/files/gunboats-2-470-0309.jpg

Samnavy - Yes, I am looking to get a job that would give me field experience in either mechanical or aerospace engineering. I am leaning really towards the AF, although I understand that is not easy to enroll at this point. I am not really inclined to work in submarines or ships, so there goes the Navy. If I had to chose between the Army and the Marines, I'd choose the Marines.

I doubt that I would be able to become a pilot of any sort mainly because my eye-sight is very (emphasis) poor, but that's just me speaking with no supporting facts to say otherwise. Sam, maybe you can tell me how much of an issues would my eye-sight be.

In regards to previous post, I would not really mind the enlistment or contract time depending on the circumstances of the same. I would really like a civilian-like job (unlikely I know). I am not sure how interested I am in nuclear engineering... Sorry that I am not very clear per se.

Gearhead - At the time I am not fit. However, I bet I can still run a mile on 6 mins. I could easily get in shape now that I have nothing to do. If I would have to evaluate myself I'd say that I am a very good runner when in shape and I use to swim often for cardio so I am somewhat above normal(??) but that's just me talking about me. Upper body strenght, at this time I would be a regular joe, but like I said getting in shape is just a matter of getting off the couch.

With that said I would rather drive SEAL vehicles, rather than building shit while being shot at.

Thanks

Most stuff requiring good sight (Scout/Sniper in the MC) only requires that your sight is correctable to 20/20. BTW, a guy I know just talked to an AF recruiter and he was told that the AF was in need of aircraft gunners, which sounds like it could be fun.

I FAR from a correctable 20/20... just saying

Gunner sounds like fun... I could yell "America fuck yeah" while doing it...

Honestly it sounds like you need to put some more thought into what you really want to do. The way I see it, you're looking in mutually exclusive, or at least detrimental, directions. If you want engineering experience leading to career in patent law you will probably want something other than civil engineering (CE) (No offense to the civil engineers on the board). If you want to be involved with engineering other than CE in the military you pretty much need to be an officer. To me, this points directly towards getting your degree through either Air Force or Navy ROTC. While the experience you can gain through some of the more "exciting" careers like gunner or SWCC crewman may be good in a general sense, it won't directly further your goal. That being said, if you're not sure of what you want to do, an enlistment tour might not be a bad idea. Do also be aware that officers in engineering career fields don't do a lot of actual design engineering. It's more akin to engineering management in my experience. Also, don't enlist with the expectation that you'll get one of the elite jobs. There are a lot more personnelists than AC-130 gunners, SEAL boat drivers and any other cool career field that you can think of combined. Not trying to discourage you from going military, I've been very pleased with my decision, just trying to set realistic expectations. That was more rambling than I intended but hopefully its helpful.

Buffy,
I'm going to say at this point that the military seems like a longshot for you in a technical rate. Being correctable to 20/20 isn't mandatory per se, but almost anything "in the field" requires you to be 20/20... for example, 20/20 is required to work on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, and I'm sure it's required to work with any kind of weaponry/explosives or nuclear materials. Being FAR from correctable to 20/20 is very limiting for you.

Maybe looking into corrective eye surgery is a good idea if you're serious about the military.

Also, do you have anything significant in your background that would prevent you from getting a security clearance... ever been convicted of a serious crime? Money problems? Domestic violence? Do you have money interests in foreign nations? Do you have any tie to anything/anybody in a terrorist country? Have you ever been part of a anti-establishment organization? Shit like that?

My brother has red/green "color blindness" and the MC wont let him be Mil. Police, but they'll let him be a bomb tech.

^I'm certain he's not telling you everything.

Marine and Navy EOD both require correctable to 20/20, with normal color vision, depth perception, and stereopsis. You must also have a valid Explosive Motor Vehicle Operators licence, which is goverened by the DOT and also requires 20/20, color vision, and depth perception.

Sorry I got back so late, my PT Test is for a 26 year old (18-29 age bracket) 38 Push ups, 45 sit ups and the 1.5 mile at 13:30, although the graduation standards from basic are higher, and you don't want to be dropping to your minimums, you want to exceed them. Oh this job here...

http://airforce.com/careers/detail/s...ms-operations/

Is a super cool enlisted job that does what aerospace engineers at NASA do. I know, I asked one. He said I should jump on it if I get a chance. I also talked to people in the field, and though they were somewhat tight lipped on the particulars, they enjoyed it and said the description was accurate.

Edit: It also looks like the Air Force has a requirement of 15 credits of college now, which you should be fine with, but that just shows they are tightening up standards for people to get in. We had 950 billion in cuts this year, and our TA cap got lowered.

I think I was thinking of "combat engineer" or something that could possibly sound like it has something to do with getting rid of ordinance. Or maybe I just didn't hear him right.

Shooter - I am a ME major. Thanks for your insight.

Sam - My vision is bad... like CR.net bad. Also, I am not an eye surgery candidate. After being laid off I would not drop $3k in eye surgery just to join the military. To answer all your questions, no no no no and no. :)

Chicks - that looks like something interesting, really. I have to talk to the recruiter about what you guys are suggesting.

I'm need to caveat something samnavy stated. While it may be true that most operational jobs require 20/20 vision most engineering jobs do not. I'm speaking from an AF perspective here so I can speak to the Navy requirements but I know tons of people who aren't correctable to 20/20 in the AF. Personally, I'm not correctable to 20/20 (close though) and it hasn't impacted me at all. What HAS impacted me is my poor depth perception which is keeping me out of TPS (Test Pilot School) which is open to engineers as well as pilots. Generally speaking I'd say that the vast majority of jobs don't require 20/20 vision but I can't speak specifically about any career field other than 62X (engineer) as an officer.

I know a few enlisted space system operators. The job will probably be either really cool, or ridiculously boring depending. Not a bad way to go on the enlisted side though.

Okay ladies I just got off the phone with the recruiter. Apparently all looks good aside the fact that I am not a citizen, yet. After I told the recriter what I am majoring and what type of job I am interested in, he said I would have to be a citizen "for clearance purposes". I ask the military gurus, how true or correct is this?

Very true.