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What's the deal with selling guns?
The owner of the cadillac dealer that I'm selling parts for showed me some of his personal stuff today that he wants me to unload. Amongst the stuff there's 2 vintage rifles and a vintage bayonet.
I remember some of you guys on here posting up guns, not sure whether anyone has had a transaction or not. I just did a quick search on ebay and it looks like there's no real guns, just toy guns. Can I sell guns? lol |
You have to be a dealer (FFL maybe?) or go through them across state lines.
In state, or at least here, you just sign some forms. There are laws, and I don't think eBay does firearms. |
Originally Posted by gospeed81
(Post 568605)
You have to be a dealer (FFL maybe?) or go through them across state lines.
In state, or at least here, you just sign some forms. There are laws, and I don't think eBay does firearms. I have a feeling these things are worth some serious cash. I could be wrong, but they look OLD. I wonder if I could post them on craigslist and then just do the sale in person locally with no issues. |
You can't "sell" guns, but as long as you deliver them yourself, and keep it hush... I'm sure there are laws, but at least around here they aren't strict. Maybe in big cities they are. Anybody can bring weapons to a gun show and sell them with a simple bill of sale, no ID checks or anything, but maybe thats only in redneck Alabama.
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 568608)
You can't "sell" guns.
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede
(Post 568606)
Ok. So in other words if I was to post them on here and someone was interested, I couldn't sell/ship them?
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There are gun auction sites. I used gunbroker.com I think, cant remember, to help set a price on an old 1911 I got rid of a few years back. Google....
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Originally Posted by gospeed81
(Post 568614)
You can most certainly sell guns. Make a copy of their license as proof of their citizenship, and write up a bill of sale.
Are gun laws strictly federal? I would imagine so. Wasn't sure if there was some kind of state deal with guns. |
You'd need to ship to an FFL for them to pick it up. That's all there is to it.
Call the FFL they'd pick it up at, they'll tell you what they need. /thread |
I would suggest sending Rick a PM and ask him how he feels about it. There may be some legal liability for him.
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Originally Posted by Vashthestampede
(Post 568606)
I have a feeling these things are worth some serious cash. I could be wrong, but they look OLD.
Firearms sales laws do vary by state. In most free states you can sell a rifle or handgun to a resident of the same state, in a private party transaction within the state, just with a bill of sale (usually not a strict requirement but I like to have one) after seeing their ID to verify residency. However some states like CA will have more restrictive laws even for in-state transactions. Interstate transactions are covered by federal law and as mentioned before, you'd have to ship to a licensed FFL dealer in the buyer's state. The FFL dealer handles the paperwork, runs the background check, and transfers the item to the buyer. Call the receiving FFL and they will make sure you know how to ship it legally. Don't assume you can just box it up and send it priority mail, or you will likely land yourself in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. For some people on this forum, that might sound like a nice vacation :giggle: but the feds will not be amused. |
setup a deal with a gun shop, and split the profits.
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You can go to gunbroker.com and there is a list of things you need to do if you are a seller. Pretty much just boils down to making sure you ship it correctly (meaning it has to go through an FFL). The FFL I use charges me $15. Shop around (use GB.com for this as well) - my local gun shop wanted $75 to be my FFL for receiving a gun I bought.
One of the most important things to do is to find out what the laws are for yourself. Not pointing fingers but a bunch of people jumped into this thread spewing BS info when they didn't have a clue what they were talking about. This may be ok for building a turbo system but definitely is not ok when dealing with the sale of firearms. |
Yeah, check your local laws. Here in Illinois you have to be registered to buy any gun. There's a 24 hour wait on long guns, 72 hours on handguns and in a transaction of any sort, the seller must keep a record of the sale for 10 years. Not to mention the Cook County assualt weapons ban and Chicago handgun ban. It sucks here.
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Originally Posted by lordrigamus
(Post 568797)
Yeah, check your local laws. Here in Illinois you have to be registered to buy any gun. There's a 24 hour wait on long guns, 72 hours on handguns and in a transaction of any sort, the seller must keep a record of the sale for 10 years. Not to mention the Cook County assualt weapons ban and Chicago handgun ban. It sucks here.
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As stated... Check your local laws. Every state is different. For example here, you can buy/sell handguns to anyone without running a background check as long as the person lives here in South Carolina. Rifles and shotguns are not restricted. However, if you have to ship one, you will have to contact your local FFL and have them get in touch with the buyers FFL and they will handle the rest. You will have to pay a fee to have it transferred and so will the buyer upon pick-up. Don't try to bend the law or it will bend you as they take this kind of stuff very seriously...
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Big +1 to everyone saying check your local laws...
In PA, we can sell long guns FTF, but need an FFL for a handgun transaction. From - http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?Q=294488
Originally Posted by ct.gov
Private Sale of Firearms Pistols and Revolvers Federal Law states you may only buy a handgun in the state in which you reside. You can only buy a handgun in Connecticut, if in addition to being a resident, you have a valid Permit to carry Pistols or Revolvers, a valid Eligibility Certificate, if you are a licensed Firearms Dealer or if you are a Sworn Police Officer. A DPS-67-C and a DPS-3-C (4 copies) must be completed. The seller of the handgun must contact the Special Licensing and Firearms Unit at (860) 685-8400, or 1-(888) 335-8438 and obtain an authorization number for that sale. This number is to be added to both forms. The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years. The seller should retain the original copy of the DPS-3 for their records, give one copy to the purchaser as a receipt, submit one copy to the local police authority where the purchaser resides and submit a final copy to the Commissioner of Public Safety. Rifles and Shotguns Sales of long arms between non-licensed dealers, commonly referred to as second hand sales, require no paperwork or notification, however, it is strongly recommended that all firearms be voluntarily registered. In the event of loss or theft of firearm this will provide easy retrieval of information for insurance or police information and assure return of recovered property. (exception: sales conducted at gun shows require NICS authorization check and transfer paperwork) The only restrictions are the seller may not sell to anyone under 18 years of age, or to anyone the seller knows is prohibited from possessing firearms. Assault Weapons Section 53-202a of the Connecticut General Statutes gives the definition, and an itemized list of what weapons are considered Assault Weapons. Definition. (1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: List of Assault Weapons |
A DPS-67-C and a DPS-3-C (4 copies) must be completed. The seller of the handgun must contact the Special Licensing and Firearms Unit at (860) 685-8400, or 1-(888) 335-8438 and obtain an authorization number for that sale. This number is to be added to both forms. The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years. The seller should retain the original copy of the DPS-3 for their records, give one copy to the purchaser as a receipt, submit one copy to the local police authority where the purchaser resides and submit a final copy to the Commissioner of Public Safety. ^^^ Bureaucratic nanny state horse shit. ...it is strongly recommended that all firearms be voluntarily registered. In the event of loss or theft of firearm this will provide easy retrieval of information for insurance or police information and assure return of recovered property. ^^^They can voluntarily register my cawk in their ass. :ky: If one of your guns is stolen, you should report it to cover your own ass, but they are not going to help you look for it. They will only find it if it turns up after being used in a crime, at which point it will be taken into evidence and you will NEVER get it back, registered or not. That's how it is pretty much everywhere, but most states won't blow smoke up your ass about your chances of ever getting it back. There is zero benefit to a law abiding citizen of voluntarily registering your firearms with the police. I keep personal records with manufacturer, model, caliber, serial number, date of purchase, etc that will give me all the info I ever need to file a police report or insurance claim in the event anything is ever stolen. Don't need any help from the nanny state to keep my records for me. :fawk: Assault Weapons Yay! More horse shit! |
What are they?
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I would also like to know this... :D
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WOW! Thanks for all the replies guys! I was out longboarding last night and got up late today to see a ton of replies! :bigtu:
Once I gather my thoughts I will post up some pictures of the guns and the info I have on them. I didnt really plan on listing them for sale here, it was more of a hypothetical kind of question. If it seems like more trouble than its worth for me to get involved I'll just leave them be. I just thought it would be 2 more sales under my belt and I could help him unload these antiques. Ohh yeah one more question. So all these gun laws you guys have posted above, do they apply to all guns? Even vintage antiques that probably wont fire without some reconditioning? I'm assuming yes, but just wondering. |
Go to Pawn stars lol
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Those laws will relate to anything that can/could if assembled/functioning fire a bullet. This includes a stripped lower receiver for an AR for example. So yes, they do apply. However if they are under the list for Curio & Relics (C&R) and the buyer has their C&R License, it makes the transfer much easier as you would just have to have an FFL transfer the firearm directly to his door if it were an out-of-state sale.
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10 Attachment(s)
Here's the info I have on the guns, as well as some pictures.
The first gun pictured (4 pics) has "Connecticut Valley Arms Inc." on it. Seems to be called a Frontier. .50 caliber He said he bought it years ago from a place called Service Merchandise as a kit gun. He said when they would shoot it they would laugh about how much of a black cloud this thing would make. I have no idea if the gun is still functional or not, but it seems to be in pretty good condition. It weighs in at 6lbs and has a total length of 40" (24" barrel) The second gun (5 pics) looks old as fuck and probably need some extensive work. It has something cast into it, but its hard to make out. Looks like it reads " J RIDCET & CO." He said this gun was given to him from his aunt (he's in his 80's) and she said it was a Ethan Allen rifle. Then he said a guy later down the road told him it was not an Ethan Allen, that this gun was after his time. He also said he thinks its a .49 caliber. I have no idea what any of that means without some research first, but that's the info he gave me. It weighs in at 6.2lbs and has a total length of 60" (44" barrel) I also attached a picture of the bayonet. Thanks again guys. I'm going to do a bit of research on these things without losing too much time on them. If I cant sell them without it being a hassle, I might not want to get involved. |
Interesting guns, the bayonet would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce
(Post 569064)
Interesting guns, would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.
Confederate forces attack Fort Sumter - April 1861 Emancipation Proclamation (frees only Confederate slaves) - September 1862 Thirteenth Amendment enacted (frees all slaves) - December 1865 |
I'm not a muzzleloader expert but I wouldn't get my hopes up on either of those.
Service Merchandise was a catalog and retail general merchandise chain not too long ago, and they have recently been resurrected on the internet. I remember that on older Wheel of Fortune episodes, after you won the round you got to spend your cash. The camera would pan through several items and the winners picked out what they wanted to buy, and they could get the remainder in the form of a Service Merchandise gift certificate. :bigtu: They were kind of like a Sears or maybe a Woolworth's. Sears used to sell guns too BTW, but most of us aren't that old. Connecticut Valley Arms still makes muzzleloaders, though I don't know much about them. It looks like it's probably shootable and I'd guess it might be worth a few hundred based on current prices and where it was purchased. Of course you should ask around some web forums and get some muzzleloader aficionados to confirm, but I highly doubt it's a valuable antique. I don't recognize the name on the second one, but the stock is cracked and beat up and the metal has lots of pitting and some surface rust. I wouldn't fire that one. Not because it'll blow up in your hands (it won't) but because the recoil will probably cause more wood to fall off. :laugh: Collectors don't usually pay much for guns in that condition, but again, ask around the forums. |
Originally Posted by Newbsauce
(Post 569064)
Interesting guns, the bayonet would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.
The older gun is borderline falling apart. I'm not familiar with these older guns so I know nothing about them. I hope to make some spare time this weekend to do a little more research on them to find out exactly what they are. It's funny, I started selling off this guys stock of parts at the dealership and now he's coming at me with a whole boat load of shit he wants to sell. Some stuff isn't even worth taking a picture of, but other stuff has me wondering what its worth, like these guns for example. |
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede
(Post 569049)
Here's the info I have on the guns, as well as some pictures.
The first gun pictured (4 pics) has "Connecticut Valley Arms Inc." on it. Seems to be called a Frontier. .50 caliber He said he bought it years ago from a place called Service Merchandise as a kit gun. He said when they would shoot it they would laugh about how much of a black cloud this thing would make. I have no idea if the gun is still functional or not, but it seems to be in pretty good condition. It weighs in at 6lbs and has a total length of 40" (24" barrel) The second gun (5 pics) looks old as fuck and probably need some extensive work. It has something cast into it, but its hard to make out. Looks like it reads " J RIDCET & CO." He said this gun was given to him from his aunt (he's in his 80's) and she said it was a Ethan Allen rifle. Then he said a guy later down the road told him it was not an Ethan Allen, that this gun was after his time. He also said he thinks its a .49 caliber. I have no idea what any of that means without some research first, but that's the info he gave me. It weighs in at 6.2lbs and has a total length of 60" (44" barrel) I also attached a picture of the bayonet. Thanks again guys. I'm going to do a bit of research on these things without losing too much time on them. If I cant sell them without it being a hassle, I might not want to get involved. Anyway. The second gun certanly has the features that I associate with a 1700s North American Fronteir weapon. (Think 'Last of the Mohicans') It looks like it uses a percussion cap, not sure when those first became common. the 44" barrel is maybe just a tad shorter than what I have heard about fronteir rifles, but then too that might be hollywood talking. Just under 4 ft is a pretty long damned barrel which is consistent with that time more or less. Does it have groves (rifling) inside the barrel? You should be able to look down the bore and see then if they are there. Ethan Allen was a historical figure, from the Revolution. Basically a badass. If you had a rifle actualy owned/fired/used by him or his men it would be worth a good deal. Weapons back then doubled as food providers though and so much like ancient axes they dont tend to survive long due to heavy use. |
Originally Posted by ScottFW
(Post 569104)
I'm not a muzzleloader expert but I wouldn't get my hopes up on either of those.
Service Merchandise was a catalog and retail general merchandise chain not too long ago, and they have recently been resurrected on the internet. I remember that on older Wheel of Fortune episodes, after you won the round you got to spend your cash. The camera would pan through several items and the winners picked out what they wanted to buy, and they could get the remainder in the form of a Service Merchandise gift certificate. :bigtu: They were kind of like a Sears or maybe a Woolworth's. Sears used to sell guns too BTW, but most of us aren't that old. Connecticut Valley Arms still makes muzzleloaders, though I don't know much about them. It looks like it's probably shootable and I'd guess it might be worth a few hundred based on current prices and where it was purchased. Of course you should ask around some web forums and get some muzzleloader aficionados to confirm, but I highly doubt it's a valuable antique. I don't recognize the name on the second one, but the stock is cracked and beat up and the metal has lots of pitting and some surface rust. I wouldn't fire that one. Not because it'll blow up in your hands (it won't) but because the recoil will probably cause more wood to fall off. :laugh: Collectors don't usually pay much for guns in that condition, but again, ask around the forums. As far as the prices go on these guns, he had the first one with a $100 tag on it and the second one with a $200 tag on it. The bayonet had a tag for $200 on it as well. |
So I just did some checking on wiki. Percusion caps were introduced in 1830, meaning that neither gun is revolutionary. Civil war maybe, but no way from the revolution or war of 1812.
Edit "Early flintlocks were often converted to percussion ignition." So hell, I dont know. |
Originally Posted by Sparetire
(Post 569111)
I am old. I remember Service Merchandise, and Monkey Wards.
Anyway. The second gun certanly has the features that I associate with a 1700s North American Fronteir weapon. (Think 'Last of the Mohicans') It looks like it uses a percussion cap, not sure when those first became common. the 44" barrel is maybe just a tad shorter than what I have heard about fronteir rifles, but then too that might be hollywood talking. Just under 4 ft is a pretty long damned barrel which is consistent with that time more or less. Does it have groves (rifling) inside the barrel? You should be able to look down the bore and see then if they are there. Ethan Allen was a historical figure, from the Revolution. Basically a badass. If you had a rifle actualy owned/fired/used by him or his men it would be worth a good deal. Weapons back then doubled as food providers though and so much like ancient axes they dont tend to survive long due to heavy use. I knew I could turn to this forum for help on just about any subject. :bigtu: He said when his aunt gave it to him years ago that she told him it was a Ethan Allen rifle. I didnt really know what that meant, I just made a note of it. But he did say a guy later on told him it was not in fact an Ethan Allen, due to the fact it was not as old as it should be. I know that sometimes over the years info can get jarbled up through the grapevine and whatnot, but there's also a lot of people out there that give misinformation on a daily basis. So just because some guy told him its not, I wouldn't just settle with that. I'll see what info I can find on the cast marks on it. Its a shame cause the casting is so beat up right in the middle of it that I can barely make it out. |
I don't know of any muzzleloader forums off the top of my head, but there probably is one out there somewhere. General forums that I think would have a crowd with more advanced age would be thehighroad, gunboards (mostly milsurp discussion, but plenty of old-timers), maybe the CMP forum (Garands and such, mostly an older crowd).
The good news is that selling them shouldn't be a giant hassle because muzzleloaders are generally considered antiques (regardless of date of manufacture) by virtue of the fact that they don't fire fixed ammunition. There are a couple exceptions to that, like certain guns that use a black powder cartridge, or ones with interchangeable barrels that can also use modern ammo, but yours look like they're good to go. The interstate sales and shipping of antique firearms are not regulated by any federal laws and that includes the post office. Practically, they aren't viewed as "real guns" for the most part because the rate of fire is so low that nobody worries about them being used in a crime spree. To most states, an individual can ship a muzzleloader right to the doorstep of the buyer just like shipping a baseball bat. Again, state & local laws vary and there are a few states where there are either state or local (think Chicago, NYC, etc) regulations on them, depending on where the buyer is located. I forget exactly which states off hand but VA is not one of them. If I wanted them (I don't) I could paypal you and you could ship them to my house with no paperwork involved. |
I got dibs on the bayonet. It would probably look badass on the end of my AR-15.
JK on actually buying it, but it would still look badass. |
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