Why do you hate M.net?
 

Be specific, too. This isn't a thread to talk about how they're a bunch of wine and cheese-eating ------s, or how all their mods are egotisitical yes-men. Be more specific than that, and be reasonable, because this thread could actually mean something.

-What actions or decisions do you disagree with?
-What are your personal beefs with the mod staff over there?

Try to stay focused on the staff and their decisions, vs. the membership. We can't change the members.

There always seems to be sponsor based bias on locked threads regarding product reviews.

I pretty much troll there, I hardly ever post. That is my main observation over the years.

Well, if we can't comment on the membership and only the mods, the mods too quickly shut you down when you slap the pee pee of idiot posters for posting stupid or incorrect stuff, not searching, asking the same question that was just asked yesterday, etc. like we can here.

Over there, it perpetuates itself because there are zero checks and balances. You can't stop them from doing stupid stuff, so they keep doing it. Over here, that stops pretty quickly.

EDIT: Oh, and stupidity is not a bannable offense like it is here.

somewhat like what stein says.

I see a lot of threads closed because a mod thinks "that's enough" but it's often unclear what "enough" means.

and the edits! if you're going to edit a post and make us all confused, at least put a moderator's note in the post you edit to say what you changed.

you know like

<verbal attack removed> or <profanity> or whatever. dont break the continuity for posterity by removing chunks of text.

edit for more:

I also dont want to pay to use it for avatars and classifieds. there, I said it.

I think the main complaint is that the same questions get asked over and over when the mods should be cracking down on this. If they would actually "moderate" the idiots, m.net wouldn't be too bad. But it is frustrating to read the same crap over and over again, especially if you need to search for something, this is why I prefer to not post on there much and like being on here.

Yeah, moderation over there focuses too much on making sure some stupid ------ doesn't get his feelings hurt when he posts an OMG I CHANGED MY OWN OIL thread and puts it into his sig.

LOL, that would be considered a "mod" for the NC folk.:bowrofl:

EDIT: Sorry Sav, that was a "membership" comment.:o

Can you give me some examples of this? We are supposed to not do that, and I go out of my way to substitute words (crap, stuff, junk, etc) when I make edits.

As far as how the membership is treated, it's the atmosphere of the site and I think most people get that, even if we don't like it. I want to look more at the moderation staff, whether there are things (like closing threads critical of sponsors and making crappy edits) that we can change.

Hmmm... I have only one problem with m.net, but I totally understand why.

When you break it down to the absolute bottom line, the Admin/Mod crew is there protect the "sensitivities" of the average m.netter and it's vendors.

I would be fucking insulted if a moderator on any of the dozen forums I regularly post on felt the need to save me from another member's internet opinion, no matter how right or wrong they or I might be. If somebody calls me out, I either jump their shit or admit I was wrong and carry on.

Sensitive types though will simply LOG OUT and never come back... which hurts the bottom line... profit. People logging out does not make sales for the vendors or clicky-links for eBay auctions. People leaving means vendor advertising dollars will also leave.

In Hustler speak... When you have ------y girl car that was aimed to sell to girls and fags, and throw in a bunch of male non-fags trying to un-fag it... people trying to fag it back up on the internet is going to result in a bunch of fag name-calling. M.net vs. MT.net, the end.

If I want to call someone a retard, then I should be allowed too. If you are old enough to use the internet then you are old enough to accept harsh criticism. Gentle hand holding and caress wont make you want to use your brain in the future.

Asking the same question over and over should be met with locked thread and instructions to use search.

Arguments between members should be allowed to continue until a resolution is reached by the arguing members, not when a mod thinks its time to lock the thread.

If I want to write "---- piss and shit motherfuckers" in my sig or anywhere in my posts, then I think I should be able too. If you are online then censorship is not a mods responsibility its your parents if they cant handle you reading curses.

If I want to say that flyin miata support and product sucks donkey dick(not saying it does just an example) then I think I should be able to voice my concern. If I want to say that begi stiffed me on a part for 5 months holding up my build then I should. The people have a right to know, in turn it that gets these companies off their asses to reduce the problems, and that benefits everyone.

Also, Miata.net folk are fucking weird as sin. I have gone to one meet with them and my first impression was "holy fuck these people are way to obsessive about their cars for me".

Bottom, bottom line is that sites members are either A. way WAY to nice toward one another or B. Are forced to be nice to one another. It's almost un real sometimes. It just reaks of a giant friendly circle jerk that everyone enjoys and doesnt feel akward about in anyway but the truth is on everyones mind.

P.S. They also have this douche nozzel moderator over their called Savington and that guy is like Garys biggest cum bucket in the arsenal.

I just don't like most the members and lack of humor. I had myself banned from the water cooler section, otherwise, as you know, I'm an active member there.

We aren't good enough friends to trade shots like this. Stop doing it.

I always feel like there are too many threads that get closed, posts deleted, or PMs sent about action that the mod making the action hasn't thoroughly read, understood, or weighed enough for a response.

It may be the workload, as I know that site gets and ungodly amount of worthless threads created each day (members not staff). But why are the interesting ones made soggy as soon as a mod can even fabricate some far fetched reason that it's outside of the lines.

It makes me feel like a little kid again. Remember how adults used to call and immediate halt to whatever discussion/argument they didn't like the sound of? That's m.net.

In other words...I should be a mod.

I always thought you two were pretty tight.... reeeeeeaaal tight...

Too much pussy moderation over there and they seem to get off on it. Not the sort of people I would hang out with socially, guess not on the internet either.

+what Samnavy said.



-What actions or decisions do you disagree with?

Not allowing YouTubes inline (I just logged in and see inline pictures has finally been added).

BullShit New Classifieds forum; no responses in the thread equals lame (the item and price speaks for itself, thread "crapping" should be allowed as some people need a wake up call and if not the item will still sell if it's priced appropriately), and requiring a paid membership. You add value to the non-members by letting the higher % of non-members post, this equals more views and more ads.

WTB Section; I posted a thread for 1.8 brake brackets. I replied to my own thread when I purchased the part as a point of reference, many people offered to sell me the part at almost double the price I ended up purchasing it for. I posted said information and Don deleted it b/c I "bumped" my own thread. If they want the threads to stay up, make it default to show 100 threads.

40 post max for a page (should be atleast 100)


-What are your personal beefs with the mod staff over there?
The avatars make it hard to take most of them serious, :giggle:

Chris

When I first saw this thread title, I feared I was going to have to jump in here with my usual "no inter-forum flame wars" warning. But since Savington is a moderator at M.net, I understand the utility of this thread. There is indeed a subtle but pervasive undercurrent of resentment here which always makes me uncomfortable, as I'm very much of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.

Rather than criticize our rival forum, I actually thought I'd share an instance where I was really pleased with the staff at M.net.

A few months ago, I sent a PM to Gary asking why he didn't allow inline images. This was something that I always found annoying, as I often use schematic diagrams and parts drawings to aid in my posts. Gary responded that he was fearful of the abuse of images, and didn't want them slowing down the forum for the few people who still use dialup. Understanding these concerns, I pointed out that vBulliten (the forum software he uses) does permit filtering of image size, and noted that image abuse, while a consideration, has not often been a problem here at MT and is easily addressed by the moderators, of whom he has plenty. He seemed unmoved, but said he's think about it. I none the less thanked him for at least considering my arguments with an open mind.

Well, imagine my surprise when just a few weeks later, inline images are suddenly permitted at M.net! It's certainly made my life a bit easier, and so far as I can tell, has not caused any fatalities.

Moral of the rambling story: don't judge too harshly, and don't be a dick about things. Approach the staff with a rational and understanding attitude, and grievances can be addressed. Hell, that applies here just as much as there.

i stopped visiting that forum about 2 years ago without any regret. i HATED moderation; most of the content is USELESS; and worst of all - advertisement :barf:

I'm guessing the locked/deleted thread related to the Cosworth/NC debacle precipitated some of this discussion. Supposedly Gary locked it for sponsor bashing? There wasn't any real bashing of Corky from what I saw, but the OP of that thread either fails at communication, or deliberately posted a thread title with a troll-like intent. Pretty much the entire first page of that thread was useless, but it started getting on topic around post #24.

Aside from non-existent sponsor bashing, I'm guessing much of the complaining over the lock is because of the timing- it occurred after the thread was already on topic again. It's like if you try to discipline your dog because he shat on the carpet eight hours ago. He assumes everything's hunky-dory by now and wonders why you're coming down with a rolled up newspaper. I bet nobody would have cared if the thread was locked and deleted around post #10, or if the crap was deleted and the useful posts remained. Some people might not also realize there's already a lengthy thread on the Cosworth/NC issue in the NC forum over there, so the lock/delete of a similar thread started by a troll is not a big loss IMO.

Go lock a thread about it.

I just don't have the time to browse yet another forum. I check MT.net for relevant turbo Miata info, NorCalRoadsters for local info, and thejdm.com because I have good friends there and I'm a supermod. I troll RD from time to time and check progress on some awesome builds. I don't see any reason to log onto m.net and browse through "why not to use a K&N filter" and "where to drive with the top down" type of threads.

i don't know im on the fence on whats gayer, CR.net or M.net.....
"Check out my car in the same pictures over and over" or
"Just got some cool chrome interior accents"
=(

I think I finally had it when I cought one of their "moderators" openly bashing me when I wasn't even present in the thread. Once I called him out, the thread got locked and that was it.

Here...read it for yourself...

Bad Miata Drift Video - MX-5 Miata Forum

that guy is an old douche turd burgler son of a bitch.... You could have been seriously injured in the accident and hes making fun of you for it.... Hes just jealous that he cant drive like you.

they don't make anyone search so you end up with forty billion threads about the same shit

I think the mods over there are doing a good job for the most part, they make mistakes on occasion just like the rest of us. Besides some of the annoying people, the only real gripe I have is with select sponsors that use every thread to push their products. The membership is what truly ruins that forum.

General lack of interest in what is usually being discussed there. It's not the kind of club I'd like to be a member of. Attracts a different kind of owner. I understand this is the wine and cheese argument, but its the truth.

When I have a mechanical issue, I usually check the garage first.

Nah, no need. What I will do, though, is put you on ignore because I haven't seen you make a worthwhile post in 6 months. All you do is bitch and moan about stupid gay shit. You're a drain on this community. Sell your car and buy a fucking Mustang already.

It seems like most of the distaste comes from the members and not the staff. It sucks, because there's really not much we can do about the members without alienating half of them. There are a few good notes in here, though. Thanks guys.

I think that place is fine actually.

This thread will remain civil.

I only have one gripe and that was well documented in my previous thread Everyone must worship Lance Shall (m.net rant)

I was called out for doing nothing at all, then my thread was locked because I said WTF. She subsequently did what others have pointed out in this thread: she deleted my expletive and didn't create a note saying she'd done so.

I still want to know why Lance's boyfriend in that thread thinks I said something that would have made lance leave the miata community...

I wouldnt say that I hate m.net, its just not the flavor I prefer. If I have a stupid question about my stock Miata, I go there and search. If I want to know about the best exhaust or how to royaly fuck my engine, I search here. I am performance orientated. I like this place.

QFT, I cant stand that every 5th word is a clicky, and that that little popup blocks half of what Im trying to read because I hovered for 1/4 a second.

Gripes (redundant):
- Having to pay for classifieds.
- Lack of searching leading to heavy redundancy. Also leads to group think. If someone repeats incorrect information over several threads it will be accepted as fact. Though this could be blamed on the membership, the moderators share the blame too. More enforcement that would discourage non-searching would stave off the problem.
- That douche in the electronics forum who thinks the only worthy car stereo is a McIntosh or a Nakamichi.

Good things:
- Good place for people who know nothing about Miatas to get their feet wet.
- The garage section is a good repository of some basic info, like stock wheel sizes and weights, basic modifications, etc.
- Lots of stuff there about tires and suspension, though that is increasing here with the new subforum.
- It is effectively a farm league for mt.n :bigtu:

All that said and even with my comments above, I do appreciate and have used the "garage". It saved my bacon installing my top.

the Cosworth SC thread is one of course. There was another recently that I forget. It was closed by RI-whatsername that someone here melded avatars with lance schall's. all of a sudden the relatively civil debate was just shut down for no clear reason. I dont mind that gary wants to protect the innocent. so does disneyland. go ahead.

I do appreciate the new inline image feature. I know those three guys on dialup are probably really irritated but it doesn't bother me one bit.

I would also like to see the subforum selection feature for "new posts" added. I mentioned it to gary but who knows if it'll happen.

without it the new posts link is pretty overwhelming.

of course if you own an NA, NB, NC and are interested in superchargers, turbos, ecus, dyno runs, car care, suspension, wheels and tires, tools, sponsor stuff, engine conversions, one of the cars is an automatic, you like other cars, plan on buying more miatas, like videos and pictures, want to change the interior or exterior, wash and wax, buy a new top, fix up the stereo, change your oil, read some literature on miatas, buy or trade parts, want free parts, want to sell specific parts, race one of the miatas, track one of the miatas, drive on various road trips, live in EVERY PART OF THE NATION and other nations, and care about automotive legislation, and want to read about non-miata junk, want help or to see people test things out....

...well then the "new posts" button is GREAT.

1. Lack of relevant information.
2. Strict posting. No personality.
3. Advertisements ( clicky boxes, thread locks on the slightest hint of sponsor bashing, etc. )

I suppose for what it is, M.net is a decent site. It serves a function to cater to that specific group of people ( we all know the type ). I think M.net just operates the way it should given it's user base. We're simply two different groups of enthusiasts. I think it is in our nature to dislike sites like M.net. Point: Don't worry about it Sav, we're probably going to hate M.net either way. Ask M.netters what they hate about M.net.

I think thats your posts your reading, not mine. I actually havent been posting as much as I used to because im pre-occupied with other things.

Sweet and sour Jesus Sam, let it go. I haven't read anything worthwhile from you lately either, and you definitely can't hold a candle to Savington content wise. You're about to have the honor of being the first person I put on ignore.

I think that there are a lot of instances when the moderation is a bit too heavy handed. Like in Mike's thread he brought up, very little was actually going on but it was "closed before it got out of hand." I understand the desire to keep it civil but usernames are people, and people will butt heads every now and again. It may cause some drama but if people have a legitimate basis for an argument then I think they should be allowed to go at it until it gets derogatory. I've always tried to go for self-moderation and let people do their thing, occasionally adding a post in when things are getting a bit edgy. I don't like locking posts and the user's of my own place particularly dislike it.

I hate the colour scheme too. The VB Blue one has no attention to detail, the other two both remind me of track suits from Full House.

But like many others said, it's mainly the members. They're not the type of people I tend to hang out with in person or online. They are a different type of user and don't really have much online personality. It suffers from being too big without having a real good central section for good banter to develop. I especially detest the sheep mentality reserved for a few "Specialists."

That's the strangest thread I've ever read. Seriously.



This.

Makes it very hard to make decisions on parts and mods sometimes. I've literally started a tally sheet for conflicting opinions before to help decide which is more accepted (and then just gone off of one of the senior member's post over here).



Can we turn this into a Sam-bashing thread now?

Let it go.

BEGi holds up everyone's build...people don't like vulgar shots when they don't know you in person...and you don't have to be the correct and ultimate word in every thread (unless you want us to start calling you Lance Jr.).

I don't like that they lock threads for what appears to be no reason. I have started threads before where somebody came in and said something that got my thread locked before my question was answered. RI-zoomzoom and ocean ragtop were always the worst about that IIRC. I don't go there too much anymore, though I have been lurking in the V8 section a little lately.

that reminds me:

What really ticks my *ish is that we (the peasants of m.net )are expect to act civil and resolve issues, but when the all high and mighty funk up... they don't have to take responsibility. I would have really liked an apology from Don for that fuckup of a comment.

Yeah, it's probably good I didn't go to MiataWorld... there is a 100% chance that I would have taken the issue toe-to-toe with him..and video taped it for later youtube lulz.

I dare you to bring that up with them Sav....and if you don.. I will refer to you as Vag from now on :giggle:

I wonder if the sponsors are doing this to try and recoup their sponsorship/advertising dollars. IIRC it is approx $300 a month to advertise on Miata.net.

I believe we get a year of advertising for that price here on MiataTurbo.net

Guys, IT'S A BUSINESS, just like the majority of internet forums... even this one, although it's not as big and populated by a different crowd. Miata.net is only one of several websites owned by EUNOS Communications LLC. Eunos Communications LLC Anything that's bad for business has got to go. I don't know how much of an enthusiast Gary is, but he's definitely not a gearhead. Everything I know about him says he's a computer geek with a slight Miata habit... and he's probably fucking rich. I count 40 sponsors at $300/month= $12k/month plus eBay advertising and probably a few other thing we don't know about. Bandwith is not that expensive... Gary is making a fucking fortune... and I applaud enthusiastically his savvy.

However,
As an enthusiast, I feel a bit obligated to help fellow enthusiasts whenever I can. I would hope somebody would tell me when I was about to make a mistake with my enthusiast dollar, or at least ensure I had all the information before making a purchase. I would suspect that some of the Mod staff at m.net consider themselves Miata enthusiasts... but (Sav notwithstanding) are not automotive enthusiasts in general. They can talk page-by-page about the Moss catalog, but don't have any idea how a camshaft works or what offset is, just like the m.net masses... and it works to a certain point. That point is reached when somebody passes bad technical information, the mods don't have a clue, in steps MT.net in "UN-FAG" mode... and there you go. If the mods were a bit better informed, perhaps there cold be a bit more "post editing" and a bit less "thread closing". Sav is the only one I see editing posts to keep the discussion going... everybody else simply closes them


UNFAG MODE:
When you have ------y girl car that was aimed to sell to girls and fags, and throw in a bunch of male non-fags trying to un-fag it... people trying to fag it back up on the internet is going to result in a bunch of fag name-calling. M.net vs. MT.net, the end.

Sure it's a business, but MT.net doesn't feel like one. It is known there are sponsors here, and people are still free to voice their concerns. No company is perfect, and when they screw up they generally get called out around here. What if Powercard was an MT.net sponsor? (just an example) How long would that last? If bashing said sponsor and their products weren't allowed, how many of us would stick around?

They are, sort of.

PowerCard Tuning is not a standalone business. It's simply a product line that's made by Dobeck Performance for Moss Motors under an OEM private-label agreement, and sold only by Moss (and by FFS, in partnership with Moss.)

Since Moss is a sponsor, PowerCard is a sponsor. FFS (Tom) used to be a sponsor as well, and many of you may recall the mega-thread a couple years ago that resulted in both my current avatar as well as (indirectly) FFS pulling their sponsorship.

See? Didn't last long.

Didn't know that about Powercard though, but Moss sells so many other things that I doubt our mocking of the PCpro would affect their sponsorship.

And MANY MANY Previous. :D

http://jugrnot.com/pcprocluck.gif

My problem with m.net is the gestapo style of moderation I've seen, or maybe its just me and what I've posted. They've deleted and changed some of the dumbest shit in posts I've made over there, and of course their over protective stand about any sponsor.. Thats pretty gay honestly if you've had a bad experience with one you can't even discuss it with the community.

Honestly I really don't care. I never visit that board anymore anyway, quite frankly I don't have time. Do agree with some of the other posts on here about 9 million threads about one single topic. Just go search for Coilovers and you'll see my point. Theres like 2000 pages of just that.

I'll actually defend Gary a bit here. He started miata.net quite some time ago and I doubt he was making money on it for many of the early years. Remember, computer shit used to be expensive, bandwidth was too, and I'm sure he could make more money consulting than running and working on Miata.net in its infancy. I'm sure it's a cash cow at this point, but I don't even know if he started it as a money making venture instead of an online resource to other enthusiasts.

I'm not saying he's a gearhead as he is a computer geek, but when my 90 was totalled and I bought it back from the insurance co, I was looking for a replacement to swap all my shit over. His original 90 was for sale at the time. I bought it from him and he had every record of service, all boxes, receipts, window sticker, etc. and the car was in pristine condition.

As to the original post, I really don't have a problem with M.net. There is quite a bit of traffic so you're going to get a high redundancy rate for every retard that just learned how to get on the internet. That said, I do only really hang in the conversion forum, and moderators rarely have to venture into that forum as we do a good job scaring people away who post stupid questions. And we hammer people with questions that have been asked 100 times over.

Agree with ZX-Tex. Catman is a douche and I love when Jeff Anderson brings science to Catman's bullshit.

Frank

you didnt notice he's back as a sponsor?

No, I didn't. OTOH, I didn't notice that Gord had been ousted as a mod either. Guess I need to spend more time at M.net and less time at MT? :D

You know the way I see it, the forum starting point for alot of people is Miata.net. Granted to us who've been around for a while, the majority of things that piss us off are because we've been around and seen like 99% of the same questions and threads over and over again.

The more knowledgable people get, and the direction they go with there cars, then the other forums like Miataturbo.net and Clubroadster.net open up for exploring and posting.

I think the really really strict means in which the mods either

A. Lock threads faster than a heartbeat
B. Ban some us us from the forum
C. Defend sponsors like they piss and crap gold

is because we, knowing the things we do and seeing the things we do everyday on other forums, get mad at the noobs for positng the same crap over and over and the mods for letting it go and defending the stupidity over and over. I think all these forums have there place and I see Miata.net as the place for noobs to learn the basics and even some advanced stuff as well.

Case in point, let noobs come here and try there stupid questions. Thats a no no. Why, because this forum is more for people who are past dumb intake questions and the like.

Let noobs go on Clubroadster to ask about 0 offset wheels and JDM stuff. Thats ok because thats what that forum caters to.

Let noobs ask their questions on miata.net. They are coddled, and accepted for it because IMO, thats what that forum is for. There are regular posters on there that are always happy to help the noobs are pretty damn knowledgable in the first place. MarkP and others come to mind.

So just let the place be what it is for who it is and stay where your comfortable.

They're both douches. you just have to read between JA's lines to see he's a condescending prick.

I don't like going to a forum where the administrator proudly calls himself the "Zookeeper". What is implied is that he runs a zoo, and members of the zoo are the forum posters, AKA the "animals". We are in essence an animal in the eyes of the almighty Gary F. His moderators are also his fellow zoo keeper, helping to keep the zoo animals tame by editing posts, closing threads, and being a PITA.

/vent

Yeah but JA only seems to be a condescending prick to Catman. Catman is the typical IASCA attendee from 1990 who paid for a bunch of high priced stuff and is now an "expert". I guarantee I could swap my $50 amps for his McIntoshes and he couldn't tell the difference.

Frank

Catman is a leather fag who drives a Miata (I'm sure Hustler knows him). He's been "vocal" about his swinging BDSM lifestyle on m.net before. He's a tool who probably frequents gay glory holes at gas stations.

How Many Speakers - MX-5 Miata Forum

one of the mods pwnd catman

Loving the MT presence and bumping the debate back up :laugh:

Mega smackdown, love it. I had to jump in on that action. What a douche.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_jh2HiMm4nKQ/Sm...South_Park.jpg

OK well anyway per the OP I have strayed away from focusing on m.net members and not the management. However, though he explicitly took off his mod hat when he did it, I think the mod stepping in on the discussion and handling it the way he did was a stellar example of how to deal with a douche. He could have just hit him with the ban stick, but instead put a lot of thought into his response.

Holy shit did he. LMAO!