There's a black FD sitting in my shop.

It was purchased early last summer for cheap to be made into a drift car because it would be a "quick and easy build."

It hasn't moved more than the couple inches back and forth that i've pushed it to get it the fuck out of my way since then.

FD is over rated and Rotaries are stupid. I could completely explain and back my statement but anyone with common sense already understands why. If you really want an FD you can find them for less than 10k in running condition w/ good paint and interior. 5k for a bucket of parts and a roller doesn't sound all that appealing to me but then again i'm not living in lala land.

Is that what they call an upgrade path?

I love you too.

Update: FD owner will trade for my other car, a 1994 acura integra + cash. how much cash? I have no idea yet.

Then I'll be relying on my turbo miata and motorcycle for a DD.. at least my miata is reliable.

You dumbass motherfucker.

lol, so you wouldn't even touch one of these by trading for a honduh worth 2K at the most, and maybe 1k cash. That is as much as I would put down.

As long as the cash is coming from his end...

for 3k I'd totally do it. esp since you have the miata and the bike ANDD work from home.

This is along the lines of what I'm thinking. I work from home, so even if a rotary blows up in 15k miles I'll get at least 3 years out of it. :bowrofl:

I may not even go look at it though, knowing I'll want it. If i do pick it up it will be on the side and built slowly.

im still hoping you realize the error of your ways and go v8

Hey guys, while we are crushing my dreams let me ask you another question.

Would you buy a 323 gtx? AWD, turbo, BP/B6 engined awesomeness. It would be kept under 200whp and used as a daily/ski car. I've always wanted one, but never considered how expensive and rare parts might be for them (like an FD in that aspect). Transmissions I imagine would be a bitch to source and replace if needed.

And another one for concealer. What do you think of old mx6 turbos? I know you are a fan of the drivetrain, I've read your thread(s). What about the cars in general?

Just curious now that this thread has become an off topic circle jerk anyways.

Dude, there is no error in my ways. LSx fd is probably on my top 5 list of cars. That includes exotics. Seriously, I've never seen a more perfecting mating of engine and chassis. I'm just not that baller, which is why i'd pick up an FD chassis now and sit on it for the right price. Then when i come across a good LSX donor i could acquire that.. etc.

I'd sell all my cars and my bike for an LSX fd, and i still probably couldn't afford to buy one outright.

After watching friends to fix someone elses work on a FD, don't do it. If you didn't take it a part yourself, walk away because you'll be there for years.

I would scoop a 323 gtx so fast. I'm stilling waiting for gtir's to become legal and trying to find one in decent shape in Canadaland. I don't know about your turbo miata but mine is completely reliable. I mean seriously it won't die (not that I want it too). Actually today its been 3 years since I first drove it boosted.

All that said if you've got another car to trade why not? I love Integra's because of their reliability and being relatively fun to drive. However if you've got a reliable-ish turbo miata and can resist tinkering with it (which should be easy because you'll have the RX to tinker with) I say go for it.

After seeing that FD wiring diagram, i don't know if i want to even go near one. My turbo maita has been SO reliable, even the b6 i pulled to drop in my BP would not fucking die and i THRASHED that thing. This is why I would want a 323 gtx, because BP glory.

Really though, I'm going to need some kind of car for the snow so I'll probably be keeping my trusty teg. It has 170k on it and has never let me down, love it.

I predict you'll need between $4 and $8k just to get that FD running again as is. You'll probably need at least a grand in dyno time to get that BP motor running right, a grand or so for a clutch, new tires by the looks of it and then a couple grand on all the misc stuff he forgot about and then some more for random things you'll want to do while working on it.

Stock they aren't bad in the snow (not great either, but totally doable), however with a BP motor and its funky peaky power curve it will likely suck (or be lots of fun depending on how you look at it). Would not DD in winter.

It would be a HUGE drawback for me to not be able to tune the car myself, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've pretty much decided no way in hell I'm touching that. I'd rather spend the money and build my miata into a 300+ whp glory machine. I really appreciate your insight, <3.

An unmolested FD has always been a dream car for me. But I'll forever keep it a dream car. I know I'd be underwhelmed anyways. But fuck, it's a beautiful car.

I'll add some more ot skiing related info: I looked around for an awd 323 for a bit to drive up to tsv when I lived out your way. It never happened... they're pretty rare in the SW. I did end up with a suzuki sx4; even with it's odd looks and torsion scream rear end, its been a great ski car. They're getting cheap now that suzi's closed shop in the US and its not a subar(oken all the time) unimprezda.

I didn't know it was possible for subaru's to break so I'm not sure why you'd say that. My dads first subaru never had an issue, neither did his second (aside from headgasket at 130k, stock clutch is still fine), nor has his third, nor has my girl's beater 97 legacy with 180k miles...They also do awesome in the snow, its funny to make big truck owners feel incompetent in the snow...

I was mostly talking crap so I could insert my bad pun.
However every time I've touched the ej25/mt5 driveline something has been warped or de-geared or de-ball bearinged

On topic: I imagine the rwd and the curious powerband of an FD would make it a deathtrap snow commute vehicle :D. Wide studded tires would be interesting though

If I'm not mistaken, that wasn't a wiring diagram - that was merely the vacuum hose diagram...

Correct, that's vacuum hoses. You can go non-sequential or single turbo and get it down to significantly less.

From this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375834473

To this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375834473

FUCK a 323gtx. You can't get most of the parts anymore, the drivetrain is made of glass, and they rust like no tomorrow.


Oh, and they have a 1.6. 'Nuff said.




On the other hand, mx6 GTs rock face. Unbreakable, hilarious, comfy, good gas mileage, parts are available and cheap as fuck. Cake to work on.

Get one. Best car purchase I've ever made.

Forget FD, build short block, make 300whp, drive forever.

Acquire FD, swap in f2t, epic troll.


Dat torque.

Haha, no way in hell i would ever use a front engine/RWD sports car for a winter DD/ski car. I've got other cars/trucks around I can use that aren't "mine" though. Honestly after this thread I'm over the idea of buying that car. Thanks guys. putting the $$ into some lotus seats and a built BP for more miata glory.

Needs more f2t.

I actually built another f2t today. The goal is 400hp. Stock bottom end and....

A PFC Fcon.

I unfortunately, do not have much of a choice. I want one personally, but I have to get one in the next few years. It's the wife's dream car, and she won't leave me alone about it. I'm not allowed to buy any more cars until she has her FD, and she fully understands that it will spend most of it's time on jackstands in the garage getting fixed. Luckily, I have a friend nearby that has spent the last year paving the way through the reliability mods for me to mimick.

On the plus side as well, her family can send us parts from Japan that we can't get here cheaply. There's an upGarage about a block from her brother's house.

If you want a project why not just do a 100% tube car and put some bodywork on it?

I don't understand?

The Miata is the greatest handling winter DD I've ever driven.

EVER.

Jeeps, trucks, FWD K cars, minivans, SUVs... They don't hold a candle to the Miata handling on the freeway in heavy falling snow. 45% of the battle is the right tires though, and 55% is the nut behind the steering wheel. A Wrangler with mud/trail tires is going to handle only slightly better than a crotch rocket on track slicks in the snow. If you didn't learn to drive in the snow with RWD, I can see how you might be phobic of the opportunity. People are afraid because of what happens when they hit the throttle at a stoplight. In a FWD Car, the tires spin and spin, but you keep going forward. In a RWD car, the back starts to kick out and you actually have to take action and take your foot off the gas. What happens when you slip at speed though? In the RWD Car, you simply take your foot back off the gas briefly and let the rear wheels take up their track again because the control wheels are still at full traction, in a FWD car, if you hit the gas too hard at speed and the tires slip, the only option to have is prayer. As a result, people who learned to drive FWD in the snow are terrified of driving in the snow at anything faster than "pulling away from the stopsign" speed, and they have also been convinced by too many people who drive RWD pickup trucks in the snow with no weight over the rear tires that a RWD car is even worse than a FWD car. TRUUUUUUUUCKS!!!!

buy FD. swap in B6.

but make sure to de-stroke it to like 1.3L

Dat state of the art valvetrain.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375882296


HNNNGGGGGGG.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375882296


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375882296



https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375882296

Would I? If it wasn't red, maybe.

Would I recommend you do so based on the information you have provided in this thread? Hell no.

Not unless you were mentally prepared to take your Integra and $1k in cash and bury it in your backyard for a few years - because that seems like the most likely outcome of you acquiring this FD: You lose the utility of the Integra and pay the opportunity cost of giving up your cash for something that is most likely going to spend all its time making sure jackstands don't float away in the event that they somehow lose tie with gravity.

Again, your situation, my situation, and what I am understanding Fireindc's situation is all seem different enough that each of us could reasonably come to different conclusions.

Only buy a 323GTX if your prepared to search endlessly for even the most basic of maintenance items.

The engine is built proof, we all know about the b6's. The tranny ain't that bad if its been loved.

There are options to replace the bushings but it may involve shipping from australia.

Interior items are often sun baked and hard to get a hold of.

The biggest maintenance pain in the ass are wheel bearings and brake rotors. The rotor is captured under the hub and each hub has a unique matched space for setting bearing load. Damage that or mix it up with another and you are going to have a bad time.

There are work arounds and solutions to permanently solve most of the cars short comings but it involves chasing some pretty rare parts.

I love mine and am in pretty deep but I probably wouldn't do it again give the chance to start over.

Splittime had one, and a parts car.

IIRC he sold. but dailied it for a while.

now he dalies a fiat

like a boss

I don't think me and you are talking about the same kind of snow driving. My snow driving typically consists of this scenario: Wake up at 6am. it's dumping. It's a powder day, has been snowing all night. Load up the car with snowboards and gear (maita already fails this test), grab some coffee. The 3/4 mile long dirt road I live down is likely not plowed at this point. Proceed to push through the snow that is up to bumper level on my Integra. This would be hood level on the miata, would not work.

The main roads are usually good, but shit can hit the fan once you hit the canyon. Lots of people looking to hit a powder day, long canyon road full of snow. By now the canyon should be passable with good tires.

After riding all day, say it's still snowing. Coming back down the hill can be hell. I've plowed snow through the canyon that was bumper deep in the integra before. Miata/fd/ANY sports car will not do. Even lowered subies are having issues.

City driving on plowed roads? I could see my miata with snow tires working. Still, I love my miata way too much to put it through that.

Very good point. I'm glad I created this thread to get some sense knocked into me. I'd rather keep my winter DD and proceed with my goals for a 300whp miata by next summer.

Also, thanks guys for the 323 info. It looks like I won't be looking for one anytime soon, but if one finds me... I'll take my chances. I think I'm going to end up trading my integra for an old impreza or something, that would be awesome.

WRONG.


The answer is MX6 GT.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375889992

But... can it compete with the rally teg?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375890139

Never looked back. I try to win all pow days (unless I have to work :( )
Now I just need to find a turbo II/rx8 lsd...

Ground clearance helps... Ehhh those are my summer commuting tires....
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375890566
One day I'll live close to the mountain.... one day...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375890566

LOL, dude I LOVE your woodburning stove. That is fucking awesome.

Where did you live when you lived out my way? I typically put in 60+ days at tsv each season, and try to make all the pow days. Doesn't always work out like I want due to work, but I can't be angry.

Easily. Ground clearance doesn't matter much when you have enough power and rubber to just plow through anything you can't get over.

Also, have you see how high these fuckers sit from factory? My car has been lowered over 4 inches.

Haha, yeah. The ground clearance thing is debatable, but I've never gotten my teg stuck. I've passed rows of cars uphill in 8"+ of powder in the canyon with it. They must have thought I was nuts.

Like i said earlier, i DO like the mx6 gt's. Would DD.

Rally-spec Lemons beater glory MX6 GT. This thing was fucking FAST. (And borderline undrivable.)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375891343

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375891343

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375891343

I lived in the Burque area for 16 years until about a year ago. I've made that 3 hour drive to Taos in pounding snow more times than I care to remember... 2wd trucks rolling out of the canyon on that last climb were always fun to watch.

More stove pics: (Of course I made this with the HF flux core wire feeder)
Didn't even bother knocking the slag off
Edit: I should mention that this may have been a beer fueled endeavor... The closeups of my fab work are..... telling
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375892354

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375892354

Hmm, that gives me an idea for a winter car once my Mark VIII finally tanks. B2600 + megasquirt + T3 churbo? Or maybe Ben could help me swap an F2T in there ;)

LOL, stove is epic man. I could see sleeping in the parking lot with that thing chugging on a pow day.

You are really making me want a mx6 gt. I saw a SUPER clean one with 130k on it, manual trans, etc, for like 1400. Now I'm thinking i should have bought it. The only thing going through my mind at the time was old ass turbo car = trouble.

no. he dailes a crx with a roll cage.

B2600 is harder to find, and only 2-3 years have the G6 mazda motor and the R box mazda trans. The other years are Mitsubishi guts. (Which is still interesting on other levels).

Start with a B2200.

Unless you wanted the B2600 for 4wd?

F2T in a B2200 is cake, and i actually have manifolds for that very swap sitting around. And i'll have a spare B2600 mazda trans, you'll just need to find a bellhousing, because i'm using it.

So, yeah. I'd help. :party:


These are the exception to the rule for the most part. Seals and gaskets give out and they'll leak, but they're so easy to work on and parts are so cheap that it doesn't matter. There's many accounts of these things running to over 300k miles without any real mishaps. (More than one account of one doing it on a stock original clutch.)


Brain had one... or at least the 626 GT Touring variant, which is pretty funky fresh.

So, if i wanted a dead reliable one for a DD with a little more oomph (idk, 180-200whp) - what mods would I need? Can I keep the stock ECU? I was looking up modifying these things and all the info is ANCIENT and I'm not sure if i trust all these posts from 2001, lol.

On the contrary, the posts for 2001 are the ones that you should trust.

180-200whp?

I'd do a downpipe (there's a guy making them right now for $150, 2.5", nice piece.), an intake if you felt bored, chipped ECU (remove boost cut only), and a boost controller.

That 200whp should come with about 250wtq.

If you want to get real ghetto, the factory boost cut is actuated when the VAF (flapper) is pushed all the way up and shorts out on the body of the housing. Put a rubber-tipped stopper screw in there and keep it from shorting. Voila!


I'd definitely suggest keeping the modifications mild in your case. Not because they're any less reliable with a REAL turbo on them (on the contrary, they could possibly be MORE reliable, and get better gas mileage), but mostly because i could see how it would be really depressing that your cheapass daily driver MX6 makes more power than your turbo Miata without needing to build a motor or really do... anything worth talking about.


Shopping advice: 90-92s (Gen1Bs as they're called) are better than 88-89s. (Gen1As.) They run happier, electronics are better. Gen1B grill is fugly, swap it out for a Gen1A grill.

It having more power than my miata is not a concern. The miata is unmatched in the twisties anyways.

However a concern for me would be it becoming a money pit. I would want it mild and somewhat quick for DD duty.

I had found a 1A (89) model that I was looking at. How much worse are they, should I completely avoid it? Or just be on the look out for a 1B? They are very rare around here, so if i want one I kind of need to jump on one when it comes up. I may offer someone with a clean one trade for my teg straight across. Think that's a fair idea?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...78177550_n.jpg
j/k baby

F2t sounds awesome. I want to do a cummins swap in my miata.

Better get one asap, it will be 2099 and they will have been extinct for a while by the time your car is ready

:giggle:

I wouldn't avoid a Gen1A, just be aware that i might not be able to help you as much as if you had a Gen1B when it comes to sensors/electrical things if they were to ever go bad.

Gen1As are definitely more common. By the time 1990 rolled around, these cars were very expensive compared to the competition and not many sold/were made anymore.


They aren't money pits, especially if you have half a brain. I've had mine as my daily driver for 4 years, it's one of the fastest examples in North America, i get 40mpg on the highway, it's never stranded me, and i have less than $2k into it including purchase price.

If you can manage to make one of these into a money pit, then you're really great at squandering money.


As far as it never being able to hang with the Miata in the twisties... the answer is "Depends." They'll handle far better than you'd think. It'll never FEEL as good, and you'll be wrestling it, but i like that sort of thing.

I have the manifolds and turbo off that very truck. :rofl:

The motor was replaced in that thing in favor of a 2.2 11:1 stroker FE3 being fed by a 3076.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375899842