Would you own a FD rx-7 (rotary powered) ?
 

I've recently been offered a trade for a 93 FD rx-7. The rx does not have a drivetrain in it right this moment, but it comes with a freshly built motor:

Freshly built 13brew:
-Semi-Bridgeport
-Notched Housings
-Brand New Irons
-milled 3mm Rotary Aviation Apex Seals
Freshly built transmission, updated synchros, 4:33's in the rear diff.

Also comes with:
Apexi Power FC, Commander, Datalogit!
2 Sparco Corsa, like new in black.
Carbon Fibre mazdaspeed style vented hood, faded clearcoart, was going to paint.
100k on the chassis. Chassis is about the same as my miata, no major damage but needs paint.
Owner says he has everything needed to put it together and run it on the stock turbo's sans a clutch, but he planned on running a much much bigger turbo.

My miata for those who don't know:

1990 with 1999 bp4w swap. T25 turbo off a sr20, BEGI manifold/downpipe, MSPNP, dw800's, kyb agx/ground control, konig wideopen with federal 595 rs-r's, rollbar, hardtop, momo wheel, frame rails. I also have tons of spare parts for this thing (1x longblock, 2x spare trans, misc other parts everywhere).

The FD has always been my dream car, and I thought it would be easy to trade my miata for something I've lusted over for so long. Now that I have the chance I'm REALLY choking and don't think I could do it.

I'm thinking of insurance prices (miata vs FD must be a huge diference going to get a quote soon), reliability of course - I can't afford to build a rotary right now so that build better last me at least 40k miles.

Plans for the miata this winter are to build a longblock with ebay rods and oem everything else, and make ~300whp.

What would you guys do? The only reason this trade could happen is because the FD is a project (assembly required) and the miata is a great running DD right now.

Pics for clarity. my miata:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477

RX7 in question.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477

I'd get it, sell the failtary crapchute to some stupid purist schmuck, and drop a proper engine and drivetrain into it, like an LSx of some sort.

Then I would paint it and make it pretty, and win at life.

I'd love to have an FD, and properly maintained it seems like they can be relatively reliable. They're certainly beautiful cars.

However, if the decision is to trade a nicely modded, good condition, perfectly running turbo miata for a FD shell and a pile of parts that will supposedly almost get it back to running condition, I would stay the hell away.

With crap like that you have no idea what you're really going to need and it's more than likely going to nickel and dime you to death. Not to mention how few of them there are riding around; finding stock replacement parts for whatever might be missing is going to be tough and what you do find is going to cost big money.

Agreed. There's a reason people basically give away shells: most buying know way better than to believe the cool story of "well it just needs like 3 things and its done"

This would be epic. However I would NOT be able to afford that. Even selling the built engine for 2-3k I just couldn't do a proper lsx swap right now. It would sit forever and be a "project' for the next several years instead of having a fucking awesome and fun turbo miata to rip around in.

If I were keeping it, it would stay rotary for now (next 4-5 years at least until I could afford to do a proper lsx swap). I REALLY like the idea of a rotary, but I also know their numerous downfalls and they scare the shit out of me at the same time.

This is a seriously good point. The owner claims it was running and was his DD before he popped an apex seal and had the motor rebuilt. Now he has a kid and is moving to a different state and needs to get rid of it. However he could be full of it, and even if/when I go to look at it I would have no idea what is missing.

I also know nothing about these cars so re-assembling it wouldn't be as easy as, say, a miata that I picked up for cheap that was in pieces.

If I went for the trade, I would literally have to get it running for under 1k and hope it's reliable for a while. (LOL).

I really want an FD, but the more i think about it the more I realize maybe I don't REALLY want an FD, but i like the idea of one more.

rotary, no. LS1, yes.


if you traded your car for that, you're retard.

Given what you said thus far, the clear answer is NO WAY JOSE and as brain said you'd be going full retard.

I love you guys.

You are all 100% right, i just needed some reason bitchslapped into me. My lust for the FD chassis might have temporarily overridden my brain functions.

I would absolutely pick that thing up if he was selling outright and was cheap tho.....I too lust for that car....with a proper drivetrain though

Boost goes in, apex seals go out.

Sell rotary engine and build ebay-rod BP and put it in the FD to troll the rotor heads.

Vlad, 5k cash takes everything. I wish I had a spare 5k to buy another toy, but I don't.

haha, i'd rather build the BP and throw it in my miata. Then troll EVERYONE, because miata.

:laugh:

They already soak their tampons when you mention a v8.

I can just imagine them seeing a BP powered FD and gritting their teeth so hard the fillings would pop out.

I always wanted to do something like that.

......stick like a turbodiesel in there and make the digits on the tach stand for x100 instead of x1000:bowrofl:

and its got a title and everything?

g'ahhhhhhhh I want it now

Yip, comes with a clean NM title. Never wrecked. Owner claims I would have no problem getting it running on the stock twin turbo setup, all I need is a clutch to put it together.

Now you see why i want it so bad. I just cant see trading my miata for it, because i wouldn't sell my miata for 5k.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375730011

As everyone else here has already pointed out:

Owning an FD Chassis = full win.

Rotard = full fail.


It's not that rotary engines aren't.....neat. But ultimately they're only useful as a novelty. FD + anyenginewithpistons = tits.

Sheesh. Late to another thread.

Would I own an FD RX-7? Absolutely. I would even try to own a rotary powered FD.

However, it would have to have an engine rebuilt by someone I trust with a tune that I trust and I would start with a nice, clean model paying a premium for one owned by someone who had taken care of it.

I would also have a slush fund saved up for an eventual LS# swap when - not if - the rotary failed.

In no way would I think it would make sense for you to complete that trade.


Someday, I think it would be awesome to have the Gen X/Y version of a Boomer's dream garage. Instead of a collection of '60s and '70s hotrods, I'd have the cream of the crop from the '90s: MKIV Supra TT; Z32 TT; FD3S (and a '91 CRX Si). :D

A few of the main benefits of my miata that would be lost with the FD.

-My current 1990 miata was and is my first car. Can't replace that.
-Weight. A turbo miata can easily weigh ~2200 lbs.
-Replacement parts. All dirt cheap and readily available. You blow up a motor? ~$600 and a weekend and I'll have it running again. Because of this I'm not afraid to tune the car myself, so another benefit. Put the car into a wall? Same deal, the big $$$ part of a built miata are the modifications and not the chassis. Great toy and track car because of this.
-MPG. Turbo miata will easily be in the 30's. FD.. 15 max?
-The convertible thing. I usually rock a hardtop so this isn't a huge benefit for me. I will admit to having so major fun with the top off in the past though.
-Then there is the whole "you just got shit on by a miata" factor.
-Reliability. Even a 300whp BP can and will go 100+k miles.
-Tires, brakes, other consumables are very cheap. Honda civic cheap.

Of course the FD has it's benefits.
-Extremely sexy. Rare. Iconic.
-Still no pig. For it's size and capabilities it's still a great lightweight sports car.
-handling like a "big miata"
-Bridgeport motor easily capable of 500+whp. I would probably run it somewhere between 3-400whp and leave it. Also has a transmission/rear end that can take this power.
-It's a motherfucking FD RX7.
-With lsx swap this is literally my dream car. I would take it over many MANY other more expensive cars.

After thinking about it more, it's pretty clear owning and modifying a FD is out of my price range. Especially when you add in insurance costs, gas costs, and maintenance costs. I guess the car will remain on my bucket list for now while I enjoy the living shit out of my miata.

I really do love my miata, like a whole lot. If i was more indifferent about this car the trade would have been done in a heartbeat.

I sold my FC to buy my Miata. FDs are pretty but no. Hell no. There's a reason he's eager to trade. Yours is quick and reliable. His is a basketcase and is still on worn out original suspension, wheels, paint. Basketcases are always impossible to unload. It would possibly be different if it was on nice wheels, newly upgraded suspension, etc., but you would be the guy spending the big bucks on all of that hardware now. Plus you are looking at a couple of months of labor and hundreds or thousands on miscellaneous parts that were supposedly there, or aren't really any good and need to be replaced before reassembly.

The grass, she is not always so green as she seems on the other side. Or else he would have done it.

..and the FD is like carrying two really fat chicks in your Miata weight wise.

Not disagreeing with you.. But have you done this??? I want pics of 2 fat chicks in your car with you...

I don't know any.

I know a few that i will let you borrow... I just expect you to return them, washed and fueled. :dealwithit:

So, having owned multiple turbo FC/FD chassis, to that particular one and your particular circumstance, the answer is HELL NO.

That FD will cost you probably $4k minimum to get it running again by the time you piece together all the junk it's missing, get it tuned etc. BP motors are pain to get running right and usually blow every 12-20k. Rebuilds aren't terribly hard but they cost money and down time which it sounds like you're short on. A stock FD makes an OK DD (mileage is terrible though), a BP FD is a project car its whole life.

As others have mentioned, an LSx FD is a magical vehicle from the people I've met who own them and I plan on building one when I've got about $20k to throw at a car so that everything is done top notch, but until then you've already struck the balance of fun, reliable, and cheap which is very rare to do in the car world.

If the FD was all stock with a recently rebuilt (or known good) motor, I'd be very tempted to trade but like others have said, absolutely not for that basket case.

If you can't afford to have a project car AND a daily driver, then you can't afford to have a project car....

Besides, how many people do you know that bought a pile of parts from someone and actually built a reliable running car from those parts? This pile of parts is worth far more as "parts" than as a "car". Were it all in one piece, it might be a different story.

Sam, THANKS much for your words of wisdom. I was really hoping to hear from some rx7 owners. After my miata, i don't know how impressed I'd be by a mostly stock FD even in great running condition anyways.

Fooger, I'm not that foolish. I've got plenty of other modes of transportation. While the miata has been on DD duty now that I got it back together, I also have my winter car which is a 94 integra, and I have a Buell XB12. So I can get around.

All these vehicles, yet I work from home and don't commute. lol.

I have owned an FC for many years, have been through the downward spiral of diminishing compression until a complete miss finally appeared and $2500 stock rebuild was required. I drove the rebuilder's completely stock FD multiple times (he wanted me to buy it) and was quite dismayed by its actual performance. They are pretty bodies but don't come close to backing up the reputation they have for being quick. A stock 4.6 Mustang would likely beat it.

Id own an FD, but not one that had been modified. And no, I would not swap an LS into it.

In the FD world, the first thing everyone recommends are "reliability mods". If you wanted a mostly stock one, I'd at least make an exception for these mods.

However thanks to you guys I'm completely over it. Do not want. Thanks again.

I will just drool over other peoples FD's without having the pain of rotary ownership.

Wise choice. FDs suffer from a lot of heat problems, the stock twins basically kill the motor slowly and cook the coolant seals on the passenger side of the engine and the seals WILL fail about every 140k even if religiously taken care of. I don't know of anybody who has actually driven that much on a single swap, but I imagine it's better. The first FC I had I got with 140k on it, with the original engine. I put a bigger radiator on it, did basic intake, exhaust, clutch, boost controller stuff with an HKS F-CON and drove it to 220k with minimal aches and pains (mostly just random electrical stuff) but it reliably made 250 whp the whole time I owned it, it was a dang good daily. I sold it to another Bay Area Rotary club member and as far as I know it's still going pretty much as I had it set up and I sold it to him in '08.

However, all the FDs and other FCs I had were modified quite a bit and were all money pits. No heavily modified rotary I have ever been around is a solid DD. They always need tinkering, even with Haltechs or PowerFCs tuned by "pros" they always had weird issues and were pretty headachey. The trouble is, FDs are super pretty, I really like the way they drive (and yes, stock they aren't all that fast, but the handling is awesome) so you end up wanting to buy them just because they are a car that truly inspires lust. However, a turbo NB looks the part and is more reliable and arguably more fun. NAs aren't quite as pretty IMO, but hey with a set with flares and some wide wheels to back it up they look pretty awesome too if that's your thing.

What I really like about the turbo Miata situation is that it's the rare combination of fast, cheap, and pretty reliable. Granted, they aren't the most practical things in the world, but think about the performance you get for the price and the fact that you still get 30ish (sometimes more) MPG. It's a tough combo to beat in the performance car world.

I swear I saw this exact same car yesterday in LA Chinatown.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375725477

See, at 250whp I may as well stick with a miata. At least the miata is pretty "fast" at 250whp. Also, good knowledge about the stock twins. If i were to pick up this FD it would have to run on stock twins for some time before I could afford a new setup.

I also agree about the miata argument, except I'm a big fan of NA > NB styling. Just personal preference. If I could have a NA rear end with a NB front end that would be the perfect looking miata imo.

Definitely not me, but that person must have had one sexy NA ;)

I'd own one. Why not? Even if the motor pops, you can have a new experience rebuilding, or sell it.

You mean like this? It's getting more and more popular by the day.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375758145
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375758145

Edit-Topic of thread: FUCK NO.

I had a 400+ RWHP single turbo FD, and wouldn't do it again. It was extremely loud, didn't have much torque, and I was constantly worried something would break/overheat/blow up.

Car was the most fun when it had an ECU, catback, and upgraded IC. Ran low 13s and wasn't loud or smelly. If I ever got another with a rotary, I wouldn't do much to it.

^This.

viperormiata, do you have more info on that swap? If someone made some bolt on fenders and you were able to swap the rad support and use the OEM hood/lights that could be awesome.

Neither of those cars do anything at all for me, but I can see its potential with a lip on that nb1 front. Actually the more I look at it, the more I like the nb1 front on the older chassis lines

This was also my thought. I'm still going to look at the car if its around this weekend, but I really don't feel like it would be a good idea to straight up trade for my miata.

I'm not anti-rotary at all. I've always loved the way they sounded and always wanted to try one. I've also never owned one, or even ridden in one for that matter. Maybe this is one of those scenarios where "don't meet your heroes" comes into play, lol.


And if I WERE to get one, it would absolutely stay on stock twins @ somewhere around 300whp.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Stock twins are notoriously unreliable due to the "rats nest" of vacuum lines. They were considered less than reliable when I owned a FD from 2000 - 2007ish, can't imagine what another 6 years has done to vacuum lines in a high heat environment.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375764778

If you convert to non-sequential, it gets more reliable, but then you need to look into injectors, full exhaust, intercooler, $$$, etc.

at first I thought you photoshopped most of those in for dramatic effect :laugh:
wowwwwwwww

Nope, good luck chasing a vacuum or boost leak. It's a reliability modification to replace all of those lines with silicone.

Holy fuck. There has to be a way to simplify that.

How are people getting 30ish MPG in a turbo Miata? I am lucky to get 25ish in mixed driving on my stock-powered turd.

Consider this: two of the "reliability mods" are a full standalone ECU and a single turbo swap.

I have been lusting after FDs for years and years and years. I've researched them pretty diligently for a guy that's never owned one. I've known a couple of buddies with them and talked with anyone I ever met in person that owned one.

Please believe me when I tell you that you are not ready for an FD, based on the information you have provided in this thread.

Don't even go look at it. You may end up doing something stupid in the heat of the moment.

Fuck what everyone else says, i'd do the shit out of that trade.


I mean... JUST LOOK AT ALL THE GAUGES!!!!



Ok but really, i'd probably do it. But i'm also a glutton for punishment.

Yeah, it's called "a standalone."

Since this thread is resolved and we're all just rambling at this point, I remember when my cousin had one of these bad boys. This was way back in like '02 or so, and a 250whp rx7 was considered pretty quick. I remember him going through clutches so often it was unreal. Like 3 in a year. This was of course in addition to 2 engine rebuilds in 4 years. Also in addition to replacement of the stock twins 2 times. The 2nd time he got them worked over by some company, supposedly some power gains from it. With intake exhaust and some weird re-soldering of hte stock ecu (to raise redline or something?) and some piggyback he got it to run mid 13's. The car always sounded like crap, always idled like crap, left a pool of oil under it in every parking lot, and was driveable about 4 out of every 10 days.

I remember thinking: who would want to punish themselves with such a car?

But he did get a ton of girls in it. Put some gay looking body kit on it, and painted it some pearl baby blue color, so it was the gayest thing in existance, but MANNN all the chicks would absolutely wet themselves over his car. I was kinda jelly at times lol (drove an RSX-S back in those days)

Rotaries are fuckwin because of the following videos.

Your argument is invalid.

Flames for DAYZ.


Dat delicious sewing machine 12A Turbo.




Dat obscene as fuck bridged 13B.




If you don't like this shit, you're not a man.

Videos like that are why I've lusted over an FD for so long. I fucking love the way they sound, rev to 9k, spit flames, and idle like shit. All of that is awesome.

This thread has made me realize I DO still want an FD, but just not at this point in my life. When I have more expendable income I'll pick one up and play with the rotary until it pops, then slap an lsx in there and enjoy the glory.

Vids are clearly fake, turbo rotaries can't run for 22 seconds straight.

:rofl:

I can tell you how he's achieved this feat.

(Last two videos are same person, different cars.)


It's because he also has this, the anti-rotary. It balances them out.

I actually really liked the RX-8 I test drove, until I started reading about RX-8s.



That's what I would do too. Some day, aka "the day after I win the lottery".

I'd still trade my MSM in a heartbeat for a nice 09+ Sport.

If i'm offered an R3, i'll throw in a rub 'n' tug.

I really liked the rx8 I drove. Until I had to accelerate quickly.

I pulled, took apart, machined, reconstructed my motor including all the little dinky mods... you know coolant reroute, cops, 1.6 to 1.8 conversion crap, clutch, trans swap... Head mild port, valves, springs, etc...

My neighbor across the street was dropping in a crate motor into his rx-8 and came over and was like oh that's nothing compared to what i'm doing. Four months later by the time I had it all back together he was still dicking with it.

Maybe his motor swap was more complicated than my forged motor, turbo build :giggle:

And him flooring it down the street sounded like poop and didn't look like he was going anywhere. I've never had the pleasure of driving one.

No one does OTS fenders for the NB conversion (except for one obscure Japanese company, I think). But, according to the threads I've read, it's pretty simple job of welding/cutting the fenders and properly aligning the front peripherals. I think you could do it if you wanted.

If you just want the lower half of the NB front end it's even easier.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1375809947


TOPIC: What about N/A rotaries? I've read/heard that the reliability aspect increases dramatically when you take boost out of the equation. Then I'm sure power suffers drastically, as well.

derp award nominee.

Good idea. Do it.

If the car is unreliable with just 2 rotors, how bad is it with 6?

LOL, seriously that is fucking awesome though.

It makes completely bizarre noises...

I find the idle and low RPM cruise noises to be particularly disturbing.

It sounds amazing.

it's stupid and you know it.

why dont you go crash your miata in a wall, sell it as a drift car, buy that POS FD and fail at life.