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Old 08-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #21
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Don't want to derail the thread but I feel this is a good venue to ask.

What's a good rifle to get for a beginner shooter?

Something with relatively inexpensive ammo, good accuracy, reliable and wont get boring. I have no idea what to pay but I'd like to stay under 1000 bucks.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:01 PM   #22
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10/22
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #23
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Sam, what do you need the rifle to do for you?

Given your rather vague description of what you want, pusha's recommendation of a 10/22 fits your needs - but then your description is the gun example of going to a car dealership and telling the dealer: I need something with 4 wheels that runs on gas, what do you have?
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Don't want to derail the thread but I feel this is a good venue to ask.

What's a good rifle to get for a beginner shooter?

Something with relatively inexpensive ammo, good accuracy, reliable and wont get boring. I have no idea what to pay but I'd like to stay under 1000 bucks.
Sam, about 20 of us on this board could write a book on what makes a first good rifle.

$1000 is a huge budget, and basically puts you in the range of every type of rifle there is. You can get a great AR15 for well under that amount, or a fantastic large-caliber hunting rifle, or a simple little bolt-action .22.

I will assume you just want to go down to the range and make some noise on occasion... most first-time gun owners don't know enough about how they intend to use a gun to ask the right questions... so we'll start with: "just something to go to the range and make some noise... something that will challenge me and give me enough experience to really figure out what I want for in a second gun."

Pusha's suggestion of a Ruger 10/22 is the most common suggestion. They are the "go-to" semi-automatic .22lr, and really have no equal for what they are.

They can be plain-jane wooden basic like from Mulberry... or with the change of a stock, fully "tactical" straight out of a Navy SEAL movie. They are relatively cheap, extremely reliable, and shoot the cheapest ammo you can buy. You cannot go wrong with one... in fact, they are so popular, just about everybody who has ever been into guns has one or two or is sorry they ever sold theirs. They can be outfitted with every possible gizmo you can imagine, including suppressors and even made fully automatic.

Your local sporting goods store should have at least one model of 10/22, and every gunshow has dozens you can pick up and fondle. Buds online sells most of the variants at good prices. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...e+Autoloading/ I see the regular wood models at Academy for $189 sometimes.

These are all Ruger 10/22's, from basic to crazy:



Attached Thumbnails
Yay gays! I mean guns!-ruger_1022rb.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-314884820.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-tactical01.gif  
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Sam, what do you need the rifle to do for you?

Given your rather vague description of what you want, pusha's recommendation of a 10/22 fits your needs - but then your description is the gun example of going to a car dealership and telling the dealer: I need something with 4 wheels that runs on gas, what do you have?
I don't plan to do any hunting if that's what you mean.

Target shooting I guess.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:32 PM   #26
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10/22 or one of those neat Marlin .22s
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Sam, about 20 of us on this board could write a book on what makes a first good rifle.

$1000 is a huge budget, and basically puts you in the range of every type of rifle there is. You can get a great AR15 for well under that amount, or a fantastic large-caliber hunting rifle, or a simple little bolt-action .22.

I will assume you just want to go down to the range and make some noise on occasion... most first-time gun owners don't know enough about how they intend to use a gun to ask the right questions... so we'll start with: "just something to go to the range and make some noise... something that will challenge me and give me enough experience to really figure out what I want for in a second gun."

Pusha's suggestion of a Ruger 10/22 is the most common suggestion. They are the "go-to" semi-automatic .22lr, and really have no equal for what they are.

They can be plain-jane wooden basic like from Mulberry... or with the change of a stock, fully "tactical" straight out of a Navy SEAL movie. They are relatively cheap, extremely reliable, and shoot the cheapest ammo you can buy. You cannot go wrong with one... in fact, they are so popular, just about everybody who has ever been into guns has one or two or is sorry they ever sold theirs. They can be outfitted with every possible gizmo you can imagine, including suppressors and even made fully automatic.

Your local sporting goods store should have at least one model of 10/22, and every gunshow has dozens you can pick up and fondle. Buds online sells most of the variants at good prices. Ruger Rimfire Semi-Automatic Rifles, .22 LR, target, plinking I see the regular wood models at Academy for $189 sometimes.

These are all Ruger 10/22's, from basic to crazy:
That's a pretty accurate assessment. Id like to go to the range to make some noise, kill an afternoon and figure out if I want to pursue it further.

I can't get a AR15 in NY. The reading I have done on the NY GOV site says its banned from being owned under a rifle/shotgun permit.

I have heard great things about the ruger 10/22 rifles, but I was hoping to get something with a slightly larger caliber.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #28
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However, if you're looking to get something a bit more "fun" to start with, and really do have that much of a budget... there is a really strong argument for choosing an AR-15 chambered in .22lr.

A normal AR-15 shoots .223 caliber... a small'ish centerfire cartridge. Centerfire means that the primer is inserted into the bottom of the casing, and the firing pin hits the center of the primer to ignite the charge. .22lr (twenty-two long rifle), and a few other calibers, are called RIMFIRE... meaning the firing pin strikes the RIM of the rear of the cartridge... the primer actually IS the rear of the casing, and not a separate piece inserted into the casing.




You can see in this picture, the .22lr rimfire cartridge on the left has a small notch where the firing pin hit it in the 5 o'clock position. The centerfire cartridge on the right (this one is a .45 pistol cartridge, but rifle ones work the same way) has a large indention in the center of the primer where it was struck. There are only a few rimfire cartridges out there, .22lr being the most popular of them.




Although .223 and .22lr bullets are the same diameter, the cartridges could not be more dissimilar... also pic'd.

The advantage or .22lr is that it's very very very cheap, has very little recoil, and can be crazy tricky to learn to shoot well, as the bullet during it's flight is very succeptible to every little disturbance in wind and other variables.

.22lr vs. .223


As for an AR-15... you can buy complete .22lr model, or you can buy a separate upper and lower receiver assembly. The lower receiver assembly is the part that houses the stock, trigger group, and magazine. The upper receiver is the one that determines which ammo you shoot through the gun once you attach the upper to the lower. You can attach almost any caliber of upper receiver to a multi-caliber or standard lower receiver.

This is stripped lower receiver... they all look alike minus the skull:



This is a complete lower receiver... with attached trigger, grip, and stock:



This is a stripped upper receiver:



This is a complete upper receiver, with attached barrel, hand guard, gas block, and installed bolt carrier group and charging handle:



When you attach a complete lower to a complete upper, you have a gun. IIRC, all lowers are multi-caliber, meaning they will universally accept any complete upper, and shoot any caliber of bullet. So... buy regular AR-15 in .223, and get yourself a second complete upper in .22lr, or buy a drop-in .22lr conversion kit for your .223 upper. Now you have 2 guns in one.
Attached Thumbnails
Yay gays! I mean guns!-ch2_01.gif   Yay gays! I mean guns!-fired_rimfire_and_centerfire_casings-295x300.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-22_223.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-stls015.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-rock_river_complete_lower_receiver_for_ar_15_1455.jpg  

Yay gays! I mean guns!-xdsaa3.jpg   Yay gays! I mean guns!-fat%2520boy%2520tactical%2520chrome%2520moly%252016%2520m4%2520upper.jpg  
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:27 PM   #29
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Sam, youre really puttin a lot of effort into these posts... you been getting the cold shoulder from you partner lately?
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:34 PM   #30
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Sorry to go through all that trouble just to learn you can't have one... so here's something to try... Mini-14.

I'm pretty sure you can own a pre-ban or current Ranch Rifle model in NYS. A Ranch model is gonna be about $700, but is probably the most practical thing to look for if a semi-auto centerfire is on your "must have" list. Any FFL should be able to tell you what you can/can't own in the state.

OTOH... a nifty little pistol-caliber carbine might be what the doctor ordered. Hi-point sells a 9mm/.40/.45 carbine w/10rd mags that is a great little gun. Ammo is more expensive than .22lr of course, but it makes way more bang. Take a look at these:
Hi-Point Firearms: 9mm Carbines

If you're looking for something truly unique, how about a Glock handgun with a carbine conversion. All said and done, it's going to be $1000.

All in all, you shouldn't agonize too much about what to buy first. Just get a 10/22 start somewhere. Make a few friends that will let you shoot their stuff, and buy something else better/bigger/fun'er in a few months.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Sam, youre really puttin a lot of effort into these posts... you been getting the cold shoulder from you partner lately?
Come on up to NOLA... we'll go "riding" together, cowboy!
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #32
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Bro I've been to bourbon street twice and I never wanna go back
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:39 PM   #33
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Excellent post, Sam. Props to you.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
I can't get a AR15 in NY. The reading I have done on the NY GOV site says its banned from being owned under a rifle/shotgun permit.
Sure about that? Buddy of mine that lives in Binghamton (legally) bought an AR a couple years ago. I know there were a couple additional regulations (18" minimum barrel, no collapsible stock? some silliness like that), but it was a real deal AR other than that, no fixed-magazine CA nonsense.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:53 PM   #35
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Long Island may be subject to the same regs as the city, depending on where he is.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Sure about that? Buddy of mine that lives in Binghamton (legally) bought an AR a couple years ago. I know there were a couple additional regulations (18" minimum barrel, no collapsible stock? some silliness like that), but it was a real deal AR other than that, no fixed-magazine CA nonsense.
^Correct, my spidey sense should have tingled...
Work in progress: NYS Gun Laws Resource & FAQ ***small addition 12/15/2010*** - AR15.COM




AR-15's are totally legal as long as configured within the law. Pre-bans are legit across the board... post bans must not have more than one of these evil features:
  • A pistol grip
  • A flash hider or a threaded barrel that can readily accept a flash hider or suppressor
  • A folding or telescoping stock
  • A bayonet lug
  • A grenade launcher
So... get a naked barrel or fixed muzzle brake, pinned stock, and stick to 10rd mags (or buy pre-ban mags)... you're good. In fact, most manufacturers make NYS compliant models, along with NJ and Cali models... but I knew that. Fart. My awesome post earlier is still relevant.


Check this out:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...liant+w16%22+B

Last edited by samnavy; 08-13-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:59 PM   #37
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Don't buy a pinned stock, just buy an M16A2 fixed one.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Don't buy a pinned stock, just buy an M16A2 fixed one.
Uncool
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:18 PM   #39
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You and I both know there's nothing lamer than a fake part on a weapon. You gonna tell him to get one of those fake birdcage flash suppressors next?
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:07 PM   #40
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I was thinking more of something like this for his 10/22... low recoil equals quicker follow-up shots. BAUCE!

M22/50™ .22LR MUZZLE BRAKE - FLASH HIDER FOR RUGERŪ

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