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Yeap, blasphemy inside.
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Attachment 199554
I got around to finishing up my car, working out some spark issues, and waiting on mazda to get my t-stat housing cause mine broke, both of them lol. I got the set for dirt cheap and I wanted something to play with while I save funds for a engine build and new turbo setup. The install was actually kind of fun, there is that cool factor in them, but at the end of the day I'll net 20rwhp and be 5x as loud. Im hoping some cams pop up in the classifieds for cheap so maybe I could take more advantage of these. I plan to get the car dyno'd, probly on a dynojet, with a local car club for cheap! Anyone have any experience with ITBs ? :giggle: Oh yeah, these are on a 99-00 head with a 01 block, running my MSPnP, stock header(for now?), and my old 2.5" enthuza turbo exhaust w/ a test pipe. I still think I can make it a fun car. Need to redo my suspension as well. |
They do have a cool factor.... now add a plenum and turbo the car damnit!
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You expect to gain 20rwhp with those?
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I cannot express the need for you to get on a proper load bearing dyno, with the new electronic det-cans and get this thing properly tuned. The dynojet is a total was of time.
With these a load dyno (preferably a mustang), and the new electronic det cans, you can get the cylinder temps super high (preferably with gross heat-soak) and add spark on the ragged edge...then back off 3*. You can't do that on anything else. |
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You will not net 20whp. However, add compression, camshaft, and headwork, and you will have something.
I went the carb route. Very similar performance if the carbs are matched and tuned correctly. |
Ban.
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I doubt I'll add a plenum to them, maybe if my goals were 350-400rwhp, then I might consider getting an AEM or something to do sequential fuel and ignition.
You guys don't think even with a 99-00 head with a mild port and polish and the 10:1 CR 01 block I won't even see a 20rwhp gain over stock power? I don't really expect anything spectacular but a 20rwhp gain would be nice, lol. There is a local mustang dyno that I might consider, but the shop is notorious for fucking peoples shit up. Maybe if I can convince them not to touch my car and just pay them to let me use they're dyno. I do have plans on making det cans, waffling on making electronic det cans or not, I suppose its worth it in the long run. I'll be helping a friend tune his turbo e30 when Im tuning mine as well, I have no doubt that this will encourage me to save more for the turbo bits. No worries, I'll be back on the turbo soon enough! This is just something to play with really. Thx for the love! |
Originally Posted by flier129
(Post 536273)
I doubt I'll add a plenum to them, maybe if my goals were 350-400rwhp, then I might consider getting an AEM or something to do sequential fuel and ignition.
You guys don't think even with a 99-00 head with a mild port and polish and the 10:1 CR 01 block I won't even see a 20rwhp gain over stock power? I don't really expect anything spectacular but a 20rwhp gain would be nice, lol. There is a local mustang dyno that I might consider, but the shop is notorious for fucking peoples shit up. Maybe if I can convince them not to touch my car and just pay them to let me use they're dyno. I do have plans on making det cans, waffling on making electronic det cans or not, I suppose its worth it in the long run. I'll be helping a friend tune his turbo e30 when Im tuning mine as well, I have no doubt that this will encourage me to save more for the turbo bits. No worries, I'll be back on the turbo soon enough! This is just something to play with really. Thx for the love! |
350-400hp NA? rofl
Add plenum and boost, or Ill make fun of you |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 536242)
You expect to gain 20rwhp with those?
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee
(Post 536285)
Would 20 not be realistic with the ECU replacement and AFM delete? Just asking...
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when you're ready to make big power, call Endyne.
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Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 536279)
If you do all that, you will get good gains. A camshaft would really pull it all together. You maybe very surprised how well it will perform, even if you can not boast big rwhp numbers.
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
(Post 536280)
350-400hp NA? rofl
Add plenum and boost, or Ill make fun of you I'll be selling these to finish off my turbo fund down the road. ;) |
Originally Posted by flier129
(Post 536273)
I doubt I'll add a plenum to them, maybe if my goals were 350-400rwhp, then I might consider getting an AEM or something to do sequential fuel and ignition.
You guys don't think even with a 99-00 head with a mild port and polish and the 10:1 CR 01 block I won't even see a 20rwhp gain over stock power? I don't really expect anything spectacular but a 20rwhp gain would be nice, lol. There is a local mustang dyno that I might consider, but the shop is notorious for fucking peoples shit up. Maybe if I can convince them not to touch my car and just pay them to let me use they're dyno. I do have plans on making det cans, waffling on making electronic det cans or not, I suppose its worth it in the long run. I'll be helping a friend tune his turbo e30 when Im tuning mine as well, I have no doubt that this will encourage me to save more for the turbo bits. No worries, I'll be back on the turbo soon enough! This is just something to play with really. Thx for the love! |
Lol, don't know Mr. Washington, do you mean JB? His e30 is race-prepped for some class, lol. Guffey still runs STS, it was fun chasing him down in my first season in my car when it was stock-ish.
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Originally Posted by flier129
(Post 536296)
Lol, don't know Mr. Washington, do you mean JB? His e30 is race-prepped for some class, lol. Guffey still runs STS, it was fun chasing him down in my first season in my car when it was stock-ish.
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
(Post 536288)
no way in hell, unless you have Fuji's dyno
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee
(Post 536301)
So what is realistic? 15 HP? 10 HP? No way in hell sounds like you think I am way off base. Do you lose HP going to IRTBs, replacement ECU and getting rid of the AFM? You gotta get something...
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I've never looked at ITB's really but I remember Flyin' Miata showed like 120whp on an itb car on their dyno, but IIRC they just said something like "experimenting with irtb's" no other info... go find it on their dyno page.
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee
(Post 536301)
So what is realistic? 15 HP? 10 HP? No way in hell sounds like you think I am way off base. Do you lose HP going to IRTBs, replacement ECU and getting rid of the AFM? You gotta get something...
Im not sure how much can be gained from ditching the MAF but its probably not huge. |
I'm not out there to set big numbers, just going to have some fun with this while I have it. I'm pretty sure my dad will buy them from me, he's all into the old school ITB thing, heh.
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The thing about irtb's is that you eliminate the stopage in the intake tract considerably. But you still have a cork keeping you from going anywhere. The stock cam and ecu is the cork. At least I did not have a stock ecu slowing me down. I probably got less than 150 horsepower with ported 95 head and carbs, but when I put a cam in it, the other mods reached it's potential.
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Something like that would have a lot more benefit if it was reved well beyond 7K along with a huge cam. It sort of eliminating a bottleneck thats not really there for an NA car otherwise.
Rev it to nighn-thowsand are-pee-emmm son. |
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 536310)
The thing about irtb's is that you eliminate the stopage in the intake tract considerably.
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Keith picked up 7rwhp with his Fujiracing ITB setup on his Targa's 2.0L High CR motor...
and only after a bit of tuning... http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/targa%20IRTB.pdf http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/img_4645.jpg |
Wow...and that's with headers, cams, adjustable gears, more displacement, more compression ratio...good grief.
But I bet the throttle response is nice...can't get that with a turbo. |
You've got to figure if the stock intake manifold isn't a restriction until the engine make ~250rwhp, then it's probably fine at less. :D
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Keith picked up that 6-7 hp vs a modded 99 intake and with an heavily modded motor. This would be vs. a stock intake. With the irtbs, 99 head on a 97 motor and MS 15-20 hp shouldn't be unrealistic. Does the exintake cam swap help with itbs?
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All the top level CSP guys don't use ITBs, because like they said above if its good to ~250hp then it should ok below that.
Originally Posted by cueball1
(Post 536527)
Keith picked up that 6-7 hp vs a modded 99 intake and with an heavily modded motor. This would be vs. a stock intake. With the irtbs, 99 head on a 97 motor and MS 15-20 hp shouldn't be unrealistic. Does the exintake cam swap help with itbs?
The exintake cam swap would help, it seemed to help on N3V's car anyways. I'd be happy to see 135rwhp on an mustang, but that might be too optimistic. |
So you are going up to 10 to 1 compression to then turn around and go turbo later? :facepalm:
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 536592)
So you are going up to 10 to 1 compression to then turn around and go turbo later? :facepalm:
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Despite the ebonics, I was being sorta serious. If I was doing a build for that sort of thing I would have a good valve train and rev the piss out of it. You have virtually 0 intake restriction, and thats the way to use it.
Thing is, you would want pretty nasty cams to get any benefit up there too. And I have no idea how stock rods, specifically their caps and fasteners, will do at high rpm. Tensile forces from high rpm will kill a rod just as fast if not faster than compresive forces. |
Originally Posted by Sparetire
(Post 536656)
Despite the ebonics, I was being sorta serious. If I was doing a build for that sort of thing I would have a good valve train and rev the piss out of it. You have virtually 0 intake restriction, and thats the way to use it.
Thing is, you would want pretty nasty cams to get any benefit up there too. And I have no idea how stock rods, specifically their caps and fasteners, will do at high rpm. Tensile forces from high rpm will kill a rod just as fast if not faster than compresive forces. I turn my stock rodded motor to 7800 rpm, albiet not at road racing conditions. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 536491)
Keith picked up 7rwhp with his Fujiracing ITB setup on his Targa's 2.0L High CR motor...
and only after a bit of tuning... http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/targa%20IRTB.pdf http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/img_4645.jpg |
Jimmy's car had stock rods, end-caps, and not sure on the fasteners. I know he rev'd it out to 8k a lot on the track. Evenually they gave out and now he's going rotary.
This thread has been very motivational to get a turbo back in my car, thank you! |
Those Targa vids are pretty motivational too. Sweet car.
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Hey flier, i would send you my exhintake cam if you could get my little brother to mail me a stock intake cam and gear like i have been asking his ass to. He is a fagette that wont mail a damn thing.
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