Nürburgring BTG under 8 min
 

Nice clean driving. I saw that car at Grüne hölle last year.
In 2008 I did 08:32 in my MSM with the stock turbo ~200 whp and 08:37 in 2011 with a N/A setup ~120 whp.
If my Rotrex setup works as planned I'll have another go this aug/sep with ~300whp, 225 R888 and Öhlins DFV.

That guy helped me win the 2010 MaX5 cup :)

Oh, and I remember 949 claiming they can do 6m30 based on calculations, but I think they made a math error somewhere down that line.

Nice, so he finally made it, met him at the ring a couple of years ago. Think he was at 8.05 or so back then. Nice guy.

Edit: 8.07?

Ton has done a great job on a limited budget. Great fun to watch a dedicatd DIY'er tackle this legendary track. I think there is more speed available from a Miata though. A lot more. I'm curious about the car that did the 8:07. Pics, specs?

Weigh with driver and fuel for one lap
Ride height
Wheel width
Tire size and compound
Transmission
Rev limiter
Brakes

ZR1, GTR do ~7:25 on street tires for a complete lap. That's about 20s longer than BtG right? We have several 2.5 mile tracks in California that are 2:00 for a very fast street car on R compounds. A stock ZR1 or GTR on street will do about 2:00 on those courses. There are a few Miatas in California now that will lap about 10s faster that either of those cars on the same 2.5 mile courses. They're even faster than a championship winning ZO6 on soft compound 315 Hoosiers.

So yeah, I make that out to about 6:30 with say, Carl Rydquist driving.

The car we're building will be about 15s faster that a GTR on <2:00 course. About 170mph top end speed (gearing limited), 1.8G worth of grip. We may never be able to bring it there but we plan to try. I only have a few goals in cars: T25, 24hrs of Nurburgring and BtG.

~6:30 BtG for an existing unit body MX5 with a BP engine.

I would love to see miata doing 6.30 lap, it would be stepping on Pagani Zonda R toes.
Emilio, do you think it could be done if you look the pace that R keeps? I know that the question is daft but if you just compare the corner speeds between R and the blue and then blue to your ideal car

The point being that most (if not all) <2m tracks are twisty, short, tight corners and therefore very favorable to small, light cars. The ring is NOT such a place. You want a long wheel base, stable car with lots of oomph.

That car had a 3.6 Torsen, ~235rwhp and about 2200lbs on 225s R888s. He has done several sub 8min theoretical laps, but only 8.0x in real life. Such is life on a 20km track: no single lap is perfect and there is always traffic somewhere, or roadworks (yes!).

That, and I myself have done 8.25 BTG trying to tailgate Ton, but I can tell you that 25s on a 20km track is a HUGE, HUGE gap. He was literally waiting me up in corners. Take that in mind when you want to remove another 90s from (>18%) that laptime.

Pretty sure they can build a reliable 350-380rwhp car with proper slick aero.

Dann

I'm sure that will be faster, but 90s faster? Power and aero don't help with the wheelbase issue.

Anyone sittin in front of gran turismo/forza could give ago, ~400rwhp miata, tracktuned with aero and then compare it to Zonda R. I know its only a game, but we dont get closer than that by being interweb warriors.

The wheelbase isnt needed with proper aero.

Dann

I'd be absolutely astonished if a Miata - even one with barely any Miata bits left - could lap at the same pace as the SR8LM, which is what Emilio is saying. As Spookyfish said, and from what I can gather, the 'ring is a power and aero track. I'm sure a Miata could easily make 450hp, but I'm doubtful it could ever weigh as little or be such a complete aero package as the Radical.

Edit - excuse the ---- video. Bonus points for anyone who can spot the blatant edit at the beginning of the lap!

Disagree but irrelevant now. That video of the Radical just proves the stupidity of a 6m30s Miata.

The SR8 is doing a 6m48s so still the Miata needs to shave 18s of that lap. The SR8 is apexing at 214kmh (134mph) where Ton is fighting to reach 160kmh (100mph). You don't win 34mph apex speed with a bit corrugated plastic.

Carl Rydquist hasn't won any 24 Hours of Nurburgring, so he may be good, not God.

1m38s - so they put two laps together cuz they couldn't really do a sub 6m50s at once?
- edit - another at ~3m30s

I'm not sure what's going on with the editing - I thought the 6m 48 was independently verified, so why they cut and paste all through the vid I'm not entirely sure...

You just have to make room for him, not the shortest driver to fit :)

He has experience of mistreating miatas to impossible times for the setup, at least in the "good old days" as instructor in my club.

6:30 BtG in a Miata = LOL.
Rent4Ring will be renting out NC's track prepped by IL motorsport this season.
It will be worth the trip over the pond!

Just to weigh in from another person who's been round the ring a few times (all be in on 2 wheels). I find the prospect of a 6 min 30s MX-5 almost laughable, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

I really would love to believe it, but can't. And this is why:


http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Hen...urgring-Record

Can we get pictures and full specs of the car? I would really like to see that.
Judging from the video intro, it has a stock front bumper with a bunch of ducts and cooling holes and a simple lip spoiler with splitter. GTC-200 wing, sitting at about 5" pinch weld height on 8" wheels with a stock shaped hard top. Is that how it ran the 8:07?

What was Ton's average speed? That's an important bit of data.

Here's another turbo NA street car on the ring. Almost no aero and no hard top, 8:05 here .

I don't understand the time vs distance argument you made. Time is time whether you are going 10mph or 100mph.

Also don't understand the wheelbase argument. You really think that a wheel base must be longer to lower lap times?

It's great for us in the US to see Ton's great lap and learn about the car. One of the things we do here at 949 Racing on a daily basis is assess the value and effectiveness of Miata performance modifications in a racing environment. It's what we do for a living, and all we do. Constant testing on a huge variety of componentry and tuning. Our team alone puts about 200 race hours a year and another 200 hours of open practice, time attack and testing. We win a lot of races and set lap records at every track we visit. Whatever you are thinking of trying next, we probably already have.

That knowledge base enables us to make some reasonably accurate predictions of mods vs lap times once we have a baseline as we now have with the blue turbo NA and Ton's car. So my rough estimate and prediction is not random number.
__
Starting with Ton's car:

Add ~150whp
What do you suppose that's worth? On our highest speed track, that's changes a 235whpMiata with aero from about 1:50 to about 1:43. So ~7s per 2:00 or 28s over 8:00

Add 2"' of wheel width and a Hoosier slick combo that is ~12s faster than an R888 on a 2:00 course. 48s faster over BtG from tire alone.

Delete 100lbs. Typically about 1s on a 2:00 course

Add 300lbs of downforce. About 5s on a 2:00 course, 20s over 8:00

~140s

Clearly not every mod is additive. Much like a 4whp intake, 6whp exhaust and 10whp header might be 14whp and not 20whp. So 140s faster is not possible. The reality, I think is far under 7:00 though and I would stake a large bet on that.

This is not including aero drag reduction, 6 speed over 5 speed, tuned OS Giken diff, optimized weight distribution and polar moment of inertia, etc.

I'm not flatly stating that I or anyone else can absolutely do 6:30. I am pointing to evidence, based on substantial experience, that there are very large gains to be made. Over a minute easy. Ton's car, while well thought out and tuned, is nowhere near the cutting edge of Miata race development. Ton's car on Buttonwillow 13CW (A standard reference in California) with what looks like maybe 8" wheels on 225 R888's would do about a 1:59. My daily driver with 147whp does 2:02's on street tires. We have cars built and running that will do 1:48 with the right driver and tires.

We get a constant stream of magazines, blogs, TV shows bringing supercars with good drivers to Buttonwillow 13CW. None have ever gone faster than our heavy 230whp time attack car from two years ago.

When it is all said an done, this isn't just smack talk. Excluding the variable of traffic, a lap way below 7:00 is possible, you just don't see it yet.;)

Maybe I need to be like FM and ask my customers to send me money so I can take the OGK to Nurgburging ring for a sub 7:00 BtG.

Emillio, I send you money about every two to three months. I give you permission to use that towards crushing the miata time at the ring.

Emilio, do they run radicals in the states? The sr8 Is a very impressive piece of machinery.

The 6.30 feels impossible for a miata, but it would be awesome if you tried. I can see lower third sevens or thereabouts being possible, and that would be really impressive in itself.

Please try! I'd love to be proven wrong :)

Same car.

Don't forget the Zonda was on slicks, unlike the Radical, which was road legal.
I think the people arguing over the benefits of a longer wheelbase might be referring to a higher potential for downforce as body length increases. Obviously this only applies if you're using the whole body as a wing.

I still can't envisage a 6.30 Miata. If you made a bold claim for a fast lap on a track that had fewer very-bloody-fast corners (ie, just about any other track…) I'd probably believe it.

I still think the Miata is just not the right shape. I'm coming back to aero again. It has fantastic potential for going pretty quick, but zero potential for going mini-Le-Mans-prototype quick - on road legal tyres, anyway. On slicks…… hmm.

Full 10" Hoosier race slicks, not DOT tires. That's where most of the speed would come from over Ton's car.

Car has to be road legal to run during tourist days Emilio. DOT tires won't do either, you need E markings (R888 is more or less the fastest tire available, NT01 and all other full slicks with courtesy treads are DOT only). There are some limitations on aero as well (needs to fit within car contours etc).

What do the fastest miatae do compared to porsche GT3-RSR cup lap times these days. For 6m30s you should be absolutely shattering them. Do you have any vids of this miata running 1min20 flat around laguna seca?

back in to days, about plus ten years ago when 8 minute full lap was the goal for street legal cars there was intresting four/five cars in EVO Magazine to brake that time. Caterham R500, Skyline R33 v, Jaguar xj220, Porsche GT3 (996 mk1), cant remember was the then new RS4 5th.

It did show that remerkably different type cars could compete against each other in Nürburgring. R500 that comes.closest to miata, have such low top speed that the others pass it on 4th gear and aerodynamicly it is brick, small brick from 50's but still a brick yet still it was capable to out perform all the fast cars on twisty parts.

Offcourse since Nürburgring has become the place to shine for every maker and petrolhead so bar has rosen alot, but still it shows that it is place where things that might look impossible can be proven wrong.

http://www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...eife_lap_times
There are some pretty quick cars.

So Emilio, how much do you need to get to the "Green Hell"? I'm down for a donation!

One visit is never enough, you probably need 4-5 attempts/dates to find conditions (weather) that's ok. This is not SoCal.

I've casually followed the local Loaded project over the years and It's not easy to get the right conditions for a trial at a full lap.
Team up with some racing team and stay for a month or two...

But look at what they did with the "Golf24" 8:28,992 is not too shabby during the 2011 24h (Nordschleife + current GP). Unsure what that is BTG
Just 440PS and 4WD...

Tire and aero limitations would quash it. Within that structure low 7's for sure but not into the 6's.

Like I said, I'm not saying a 6:30 is 100% possible, just throwing the data out there. Getting way below 8:00 would be easy. Getting to 7:00 flat would take a purpose built and very powerful car. Below 7:00 on E marked tires and limited aero, I don't think possible without huge $$$ and 500+whp.

The slicks I would run would be worth huge chunks of time. Current fastest Miata time I know of on LS was a few years ago, ~1:35 on 225 NT01's with 400whp IIRC. Just swapping to 275 A6's would be 6s or so. 245/580 R80's another 4s or so. Just a tad behind a GT3 cup car.

Tires are really the sticking point. Given those limitations, maybe we should should for simply getting under 7:00?

Or you could try and find an event that would allow you to run slicks. This way you would get both BTG and full lenght times.

We have been researching what it would take to run the 24hrs of the ring. Either renting seats or shipping cars over. We have some contacts over there that would make things easier. We have one or two little groups from California that go over every year, rent and drive the ring. I keep missing them for one reason or the other. I'm just not too interested in renting a near stock car for the tourist laps. Fun but I'd rather spend more and go fast :)

Since I was the driver (Ton) of the red MX5 (Ringmazda) I can share some information how I got to my challenge of the 8 minute target on the Ring.

I got triggered by the attempt of Jethro Bovingdon of EVO-Magazine / GB to lap the complete Ring (= 20,832km) with an 1995 BMW E36 M3 for a budget under GBP15.000 under 8 minutes, which project was started as I recall in 2006.

The popularity of fast Ringlaptimes has significantly been raised by Sport Auto magazine / Germany who have been measuring the laptime of the car in their Supertest since 1997

http://www.sportauto-online.de/runde...itNS&order=ASC

To clear things about the laptimes. The Ring or Nordschleife is a track of 20,832 km which can be connected to the GP-track.
The combined track is mostly used for longdistance-races while then the pitsboxes of the GP-track can be used.

Sport Auto measures their laptimes on the Ring of 20,832 but leaves out the part where the Ring can be connected to the GP-track (trackpart T13). The distance of this part is then 20,600 km (thus they leave out 232 mtr which is about 6 - 7 seconds compared to the 20,832km)
For this lap the full straight (Döttinger Höhe) is used.

When the track can be used for Touristenfahrt (trackdriving for streetlegal cars, motorcycles, autobus and so on) the straight is not used because there is the place you get on and off the track, after buying your lapticket.
Since you cannot use the straight it is only possible to take your laptime once you get on the track and you go under a Bridge (timingstartingpoint) and come back on the straight and pass under a Gantry (timingendpoint) hence the name BtG = Bridge to Gantry.
Then you don't drive the straight (about 1715 mtr) but do take in your timemeasurement the T13 = 232mtr part.

So the Sport Auto times are measured over 20,6 km and the BtG times over 19,1 km.

To calculate the time of a 20,6 lap one has to add around 22 to 24 seconds on the BtG laptime (depending on the speed which can be reached on the straight)
So a BtG 8.00 is 20,6 / 8.23

The BMW E36 M3 of Bovingdon finally never reached their target. In the end there has been spend around GBP30.000 on the car and their best racedriver reach around 20,6 / 8.10

My challenge was to do a 20,6 / sub8.00 which would be comparable to the Sport Auto Supertest, which means that the car has to be roadlegal (as is European approaved tyres (E-mark), minimal rideheight of 10 cm (4 inch))
Since I was fully aware that this was a tough challenge I decided to split my challenge in two stages. First I would try to beat the BtG 8.00 for a limited carbudget and when that was achieved I would raise the carbudget and attempt for the 20,6 / 8.00

I bought a 1994 MX5 in 2008 and planned to spend around €8000 on the car (including the buyingprice)
In october 2009 I finally reached BtG 8.01 and spend €8500 on the car.
It was a struggle to reach this time due to the traffick delays. According Damir 130 who analised my laplogging my theoretical bestlap was BtG 7.53.

As the blue MX5 of Dale Lomas shows in his video trackexperience and talent helps quit a bit. His car has around 35 HP less than my car and a bit more aerodrag does a BtG 8.05 but when you substract the timeloss due to traffic his best time would have been a BtG 7.57 without traffic.
But since Dale is a driving instructor on the Ring and lives almost next to the Ring he has more then 5000 laps experience in all kinds of fast cars and bike.
My experience is about 350 laps since 1970 in mostly slow cars. Advantage that the Ring is always new to me, never a dull moment.

In 2010 I started with upgrading my MX5 for stage two (20,6 / 8.00) (bit more horsepower, aero (splitter and wing) and AST 3 way adjustable suspension, frontbrakes). That year I only drove one lap on the Ring. In 2011 I did 5 laps to test the suspension and aero and that was when the video was taken. Lack of drivingtime in 2010 and 2011 and some problems with the brakes gave a fastest lap of only BtG 8.05. The one on the video was 2 seconds slower..

Now for the 6.30. of Emilio. I understand that he means BtG 6.30 which is a 20,6 / 6.52, is it possible ???? Well in my believe almost anything is possible but not always easy.

With streetlegal limitations (no Hoosiers) and no budgetlimitations it will be tough, but not imposibble

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Can you do it with the OGK on (european) streetlegal tyres ???? I doubt it but it is certainly an interesting challenge.
I think the calculation of Emilio is a bit optimistic, but only eating is proof of the pudding, so bring it on. Cost of transport is not that high that that should be a problem for a company that is so busy with racing

Thanks for all the background Ton. The obstacles make the lap that much more impressive. The original OGK and Rental were similarly built with certain constraints with a target lap time in mind on local tracks. Building a car with a huge budget isn't always as much fun as working within a tight framework while still trying to milk big buck speed out of it.

I will get over there. In what mode, I do not know yet. I'll need help from locals like your crew and our new European importer S&R GmbH.

For me indeed the challenge and fun is to be as quick as the "real" sportscars for significantly less money.
The 1994 €8500 MX5 is now about as quick as i.e. a Lotus Exige S 2008 or a Porsche Boxter S 2006.

In the area of the Ring are several workshops who can assist you. I don't actually have a crew to assist, I almost always go there on my own.
If you come over I can of course assist you.

Thanks Ton, that was very interesting to read and learn.

Hi guys... one of my own site's members pointed me back this way. I thought I'd add some details about my car (the smokey blue MX5 with silver stripes) and give you my opinion on the 6m30s MX5 BtG lap....

Anyway... lots of things could have been done a million times better with my car;

• Tyres were Toyo R888 semi-slicks, BUT made in 2006(!) and tracked so many times there was barely any tread left on them.

• Power was unmeasured, but I would be surprised if I had more than 180 at the back wheels with the 11psi I used to run. Chinese torbocharger and megasquirt

• No hard top; this cripples acceleration over 100mph and a LOT of the Nordschleife is over 100mph...

• Only aero was a Garage Vary splitter, helped a lot though.

• Brakes, 1.8 NA caliper bracket and discs was my only big mod. Pads are only EBC Yellow Stuff!

• In that video not only did I have to dodge a fair amount of traffic, but there was also some roadworks too.

SO... my videovbox shows me that THEORETICALLY I can lap BTG in about 7m54s on a 'perfect' run.

AND... I've basically admitted my MX5 was a DIY shitbox running on the worst tyres and brakes.

But you guys are looking at another 90 SECONDS off that time. And we are WELL inside the realms of diminishing returns. I took my MX5 (and my own driving) from 10 minutes to under 8 over five years... Bikes were a lot easier for me... GSX-R1000 was 7m35s after a month of ownership, but I digress... ;)

WHY do I STILL think 6m30s is not achievable in an MX5?

• At those laptimes average speed is waaaay over 100mph. All the advantages of lightweight and acceleration become secondary to torque up the hills (1000ft up and 1000ft down each lap) and power down the long straights combined with REAL downforce at 100mph.

• The fastest cars that aren't single-seaters or formulas are NOT modified GTRs or Evos. They are pure-bred GT racing cars; factory Porsche GT3R 911s, Corvettes and even the customer-prepped Vipers. The fastest street-shaped race car I know of around here is a factory Porsche GT3RS shell with custom aeros, 4WD and two turbos...

•-The fastest BTG time is about being street legal (BTG is what you measure when you CAN'T go racing). Just saying...

• The quickest overall laptime of the Nordschleife that I know of (excepting Bellof's Group C Porsche!) would be nailing a BTG of about 6m20s in a Zonda R or Ferrari 599XX. The Zonda driver was another local expert, the 599 pilot less so.

These cars don't just have a great power to weight ratio (which is do-able for the MX5), but developed integral aeros (all we can do is bolt ons) and HUGE power... Power to weight gets you up to 100mph... but over that it's about power versus drag and the above cars can make double the horsepower we have whilst making downforce and NO EXTRA drag. All of our downforce mods would brickwall the top speed.

Anyway, that's enough for now.

Just to make it clear, I live here, work here and developed my MX5 from scratch and have even raced here a few times as well as test driving and taxi driving etc...

Oh... and my day job is here at Rent4Ring and we just finished building an NC MX5 hire car. So you can arrive and drive here in the public sessions. Öhlins suspension, 4-2-1 exhaust, full cage, hardtop, 16x8s and Toyo R888s...

It will be interesting in the NC will do better job than the Swifts, especially in the long term cost, but also in the popularity (the Swifts have been real popular and triggered several bets about the fastest driver with low power).
Adding a massaged 2.5L MZR would be even more fun :)

id sure like to see you guys try.. a much more powerful miata like mine, would sure be a lot faster than mrbtg's car but i would not bet much money that even mine would be able to go as fast as into the 6minute's laptimes. my car has lots of power. 170ish mph topspeed, aero mods, big brakes, and 225 r888's(roadlegal here and in germany).. it would wery easily be a lot faster than my 8 min something diesel 3series, but how much faster? at a certain point it also becomes a matter of having balls big enough to attack a twisty downhill at speeds closing in on 160+ mph, in a miata.
Also speed uphill in it would easily compare / surpass most porsches etc. hell even my diesel bmw has a higher speed up from bergwerk than the blue mx5 in the video. so i am guessing it would be very doable(easy) to get somewhere mid 7 minutes in a mx5 as fast as this. but not sure if i have the balls to actually get there myself..

oh. its very easy to make big bold claims from the other side of the pond. when it most likely will never be tested :P i call bs on the 6 minute miata :)

i have been on the 24h race on the ring, and your time would have been top10 in the gt section, 6.30 is superbfast, i see your time sections based on a flat perfect course in the us.

The ring is not flat, perfect or like a race track, a lot of bumps, twisty turns etc.

i caal a toast on that bs.. bring the car over and do the lap!

:jerkit:

If they can get a 4wd Golf (better aero to start with though) up there a Miata might be able too (with unrestricted power, unrestricted aero and enough testing time).
But we are talking about getting FIA GT3 speed.

Theory is one thing, getting decent time on track is the thing that seems to be limiting.
A month or two on site in collaboration with local teams would make it a lot easier, ehm, less impossible.

http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.ph...&Itemid=300090

equals

"with unrestricted power, unrestricted aero and enough testing time"


a mx5 that matches a 599xx and so on, where to buy?

That's the official vid for the Radical. Seemingly no edits, clearer data overlay.

Also, I agree with the point someone above made about the bumpiness of the 'ring compared to most US tracks. But after all that bitching about how a 6.30 can't be done, I'd still love to see what a road-legal Miata could achieve, and I'd be willing to donate to the charidee of 949 if an official donation scheme could be drawn up. Donating to Flyin Miata is just SO last year.



Finally, I know I keep going on about Radical….. but they're based 15 minutes down the road from me, so I am slightly biased towards the local side!

If you want to donate to something that will happen in 2012, donate to Ton to get the RingMazda up to spec. Currently a new engine is going in, needs dyno tuning, gas, tires, brake pads and lots of testing.

Hey Guys,

some words from a local hero... :-D

I am not fast, but still alive. I drive only safe BTGs around 9min, but i know the difference of 60seconds and more. To drive a 6.30 with an MX5, with BP engine and without a real local hero as driver, maybe like Adorf or Krumbach, is not possibel. I would agree if Emilio add a minute, but this would be also a high target.

http://www.sportauto-online.de/marke...g-3989220.html

Here you can see a E-Radical doing a 7.47 full round (7.27BTG). This Radical has 2,6KG/HP, 260kmh Top Speed and he drives 256kmh at Schwedenkreuz. I don´t believe that a MX5 could do 256kmh at this point. The hole track between Breitscheiderbrücke and Karussell is boring without torque. It is not noticeable on a ps2 or wii, but in real life you have enough time to call Christa and order a Eifler-Schnitzel at Restaurant zum Kleeblatt. The E-Radical has torque (~800NM), but how would you like to add this on a BP engine?

http://www.maximum5.de/magarchive/MAXIMUM5_Ausgabe3.pdf
Tons Setup is written down on Page 15 and 16.
We could discuss Tons Setup and help him to get the 8min BTG done, on a low budget. Maybe after that, it is helpfully to see how difficult it is, to get 7 seconds on this track.

Sure everything could be done, if a team is better than a Toyota F1 Team and the budget doesn´t matter.

I always try to think positiv and like Ton, i would help Emilio to reach his target. So if he needs some time on a dyno in germany, the IL Crew would be helpful.

Interesting discussion!
I am living near the ring and i did a lot of rounds during the last 10 years but lapping the ring in 06:30 minutes with a miata is nearly impossible! But i would love to see someone will try it...

Progress on the Ringmazda

Not much driving has been done in 2012, 10 laps in total during 7 visits for Touristenfahrt, no trackdays. It took longer then hoped for to get the car running. In September the first laps were driven and due to issues with several items (a.o. the 5-speed broke shifting from 4 to 5 on Kesselschen) prevented any time attack.

This year I could do my first 10 laps during a trackday on 4th of June with good weather, though with a little too much traffic (instruction driving with 4 slow cars side by side makes passing a gamble).

BtG 7.51,685 Best theoretical lap BtG 7.49,2
It should be noted that during Touristenfahrt this would have been about 1 seconds more because then you can't pass the startingpoint "Bridge" not as fast as during a trackday because at a trackday there is a more direct admittance to the track without the pillons.

I still have to shave of about 14 seconds to reach my target.
I think (and hope) the car can do it but if I am able to extract that speed from it that I am not so sure of;)

I learned from Laur3ns that Emillio has been driving on the Ring some weeks ago in a rental Swift and has his laptime now on approx. BtG8.45 which is not bad with that car. We are now waiting to see him there with his Miata. There are some trackdays ahead. Hopefully he lets us know in advance when he is coming again.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1371112887

Well done on the 7.50, next time you must have a camera onboard!
now man up, boost pressure to 20psi and run 7.30s ��

Just some random data point
You apparently don't need a lot of power or aero to get close to 8.

Fast, friendly swede doing the driving.

Modifications to the car are:
- Full exhaust and a CAI
- 225/45 16 Street legal, semi-slick tyres with medium compound.
- Coilovers with 10/7 Springs
- Stiffer ARB f/r
- Uprated Brake Pads, fluids and brake lines
- Bracing underneath the car
- ECU Reprogram
- Carbon fibre seat
- ~20kg lighter than last year.


Track routine and driving skill is all you need

German driver / with slicks

English driver / with slicks


So 7.52 with an extra 135 Hp and a little aero means that I'm just cruising, but somehow it feels fast to me when behind the wheel

So what happened with this, Emilio would you fill us in?

Congrats on the Swift time if that was you, not shabby at all!

Come on, first miata BTG <7.30!

It's not -yet- under 8 min BTG but for sure it's my goal for 2014 so I hope my video can fit in this topic. This my last lap of 2013:


Some background info. I've been superlucky having the opportunity to move to Germany and live and work near the track this year. The road trip from Greece to Nurburgring and driving my first lap on THE track with my own miata was literally priceless. So I feel grateful being able to do just that regardless of lap times.

Unfortunately I did only a few laps this year(21 including this one) so I'm far from the great laps posted above and still learning my way around the track also trying to bond again with the car(which was in pieces the last 2 years). This lap is around 8:38 BTG in a quite cold day(damp patches in quite a few places that aren't clearly visible) and hitting traffic at the wrong spots killing completely a few sections. A clean lap alone could get the car closer to low 8s. If you include quite a few driving mistakes by me I can even hope for a sub 8 time.

Only real problem with my car is the gearing(and brakes). The combination of 5 speed, the stock 4,3 final gear and 13in wheels means the actuall top speed of the car is a tad lower than 200km/h. That means that there are more than a few sections I'm hitting the limiter in 5th and I have to stay there although the car clearly has power to pull more...

Too many other projects and too expensive. I underestimated the impact of the elevation changes on lbs/hp. Even fairly quick cars on normal tracks lose buckets of time due to the climbing. So a 6:30 would require a $150K plus stupid Miata. Possible but, who cares and more importantly, who pays for it?

Just the same, we have several Miatas in California that will circulate a race track much faster than a bone stock 2011 USDM spec GT-R. I think something like the cars we already have could get close to 7:00. Crusher (before I sold it) at 190whp, 2180 lb trim, full low drag aero with the 9" wide Hoosiers turned at 1.6g sustained, and had about a 155mph top end. Crusher, at a cost of about $70K, was built from scratch to win US national championships, which it did in sprint, time trial and 25hr endurance. Not to take anything away from some of the other Miatas postings BTG times but most of them are built on a tighter budget with a lot less R&D. In other words, not nearly as optimized. That some of the home built and much less developed cars are going under 8:00 indicates that much more is possible. A European built car built to the same standards could lower the BTG Miata record by.. a bunch. Crusher isn't nearly the fastest track Miata in California. Gordon's 400whp Rotrex powered car would be ah, just a wee bit faster yet.

So I know something like a 7:00, maybe under 7:00, is possible with 90-05 Miatas that already exist. I just don't know anyone willing to write the check to prove it :)

Oh, the internet credibility, though!

Yeah, it's worthless but so much fun to watch on YouTube.

Due to personal circumstances I had to sell the red Ringmazda some weeks ago so an improvement of the laptime at the Ring has to come from the new owner.The car, as I sold it, is capable of shaving of the last seconds but if and when the new owner will try it is unknown.

Aw what a bummer! Fun to watch the videos and read the discussion. Really enjoyed it.

+1

Thanks for inspiring the rest of us to dream about doing it too, and thanks for sharing. Good luck in future endeavors.

I just now saw your answer Emilio, almost 1.5 years later.
That is too bad. I guess we'll have to wait some time for the 7.30's now that the red ringmazda and you are both out of the picture.

Perhaps Serwanski will post a really quick time some day, he's fast enough.

But still, wondrous, scary track. If I can get into the <8.30 bracket in my miata some day I will be very happy.