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Old 12-02-2008, 04:06 PM   #1
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Default Noo gi

Hey all,

Sounds lick ile get bich slaped if I don't say hi her so hi. I dont wont to search much so mabe I can find out her ez.

Is it a good idea to put in a turbo? and wich won? band?
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:08 PM   #2
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One question: Is English your first language?
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:11 PM   #3
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l33t=no lovin'
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:20 PM   #4
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ESL fo sho Pat.

OP - your questions are way too broad. Read here for a bit and see what others are using and come to your own conclusion about which turbo to use.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mazda/nissan View Post
l33t=no lovin'
huh?

Beg your pardon, just messin' around, going for the penultimate noob post.

I'm interested in ~165 whp. I'd rather not have to switch out tons of components and spend tons of cash. I think I would like the BEGi-S kit minus the 2554 and get a sr20 s14 but maybe the 2554 or 2560 is too sweet to pass up? Is a journal bearing turbo that bad? If I pass on the 2554, should I pass on the BEGi kit and piece it together on ebay and such?

Should I get bigger exhaust with 165 whp? Can I skip Bipes if I have and intercooler? Can I skip the intercooler if I have Bipes?

What's a reasonable cost if I piece it together, $1000, $1500?

Thanks for your patience,
Fred
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:33 PM   #6
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1.6 or 1.8? Depends what your goals are. You say ~165whp. But a lot of people say they only want X HP, then they get it and want more. Well, if you're the kind of person that's gonna want more down the road, it's best to buy/build for your biggest power goals now vs. buying band aids to get you to say, 200whp, but deep down you know you want 300whp. In this case you'll have to sell off your bandaids at a loss and then buy a real EMS anyways.

In short, read around for weeks and you'll know what you want.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:56 PM   #7
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Ditto what Pat said.
Please post your location in the setup menu so that we can be neighborly and invite you to visit and stay awhile.
And welcome.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:57 PM   #8
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1.8L

I hear you, but this is a daily driver. For me, 300 whp is a dedicated track car, and I'm not into that, yet. I want reliable, low maintenance power. Yes, I may itch for >200 whp, so good point. But 165 whp would be so much better than 105 whp anyway.

What do I lose if I have to sell off what? If I get the sr20 s14 that should be good for >250 whp, right? I wouldn't have to sell off the IC, or the ducting, hoses, bov. Okay, Bipes, rising rate, and cast manifold, maybe. But maybe I can get those used so not take much loss on them eventually. I can do the exhaust when I need/want to.

MS sounds enticing, but I don't know if I like the price. MS diy looks a bit too involved for me. Injectors, wideband, tuning, tuning software, dyno runs, etc, keep stacking up the bills. Maybe later.

Maybe it's lame but I don't want to spend a ton of time and money on this right now. I'll probably get the bug, though. So, no I don't want to hit a dead end. But if I don't swap out injectors, ems, O2, exhaust, etc, I haven't invested much anyway, right?

Are journal bearings a whole lot worse than ball bearings? I you had to do it again, and you did, would you go for the 2560 because it's so much better?
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:04 PM   #9
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Most of the "if I had to do it again" threads will not be talking about journal bearing vs. ball bearing turbos. They will be more like:

3" exhaust is the only exhaust to buy
I should have bought MS from day one.
Should have bought a AEM UEGO wideband from day one.
Should have done a nice DIY intercooler setup from day one.

My suggestion is to read up and learn. You'll likely find that a DIY MS is for you. In all seriousness, it can be done for the same price as a bipes + RRFPR and O2 clamp. Well, close enough that you might as well do MS considering how much more you'll get.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:10 PM   #10
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I hear you, thanks for the advice.

One thing I heard, which is probably bs, is that the maps for ms are perhaps limited in scope, so that one may encounter ambient conditions that the ms can't deal with so the car doesn't run well. That Mazda had the resources to test their ems in all possible conditions or something and that ms is only tested under narrow conditions? Is this a concern or bs? I guess everyone loves ms though.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:17 PM   #11
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That would be BS. MS can alter fuel and spark at any temperature you'll ever encounter.

MS isn't the best ECU available for a miata. There's a 2K dollar AEM that's no longer in production that is better. There's a Hydra that's over 2K and it's better too. Few others as well. MS isn't the best. It's the best VALUE. It will do enough to boost your car and have some features, it's easy to use, easy to tune, and CHEAP.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:22 PM   #12
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One of our number, Coastertrav has a Greddy Emanage Ultimate for sale in the "for sale" section for $450 if you want the "name brand" goodies on the cheap, but I don't see many people complaining about spending $600 to $700 on the "MS Plug and Play" version and having most of the work done for you. Those guys are making serious, reliable power.

My $0.02 is worth less than most because I don't own the darn thing yet...
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:26 PM   #13
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And the recommended approach would be to get the MS up and running for some time to get that ironed out with 460cc or 550cc injectors, wideband, and IAP? Piece together the IC, exhaust, BOV, intake, and turbo over time, then install them all at once when ready?

This goes from a weekend project I could do within a month to who knows how long. Not bitching, just another example of when delayed gratification may be better than a quick hit. Big surprise. I'll keep researching.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
That would be BS. MS can alter fuel and spark at any temperature you'll ever encounter.

MS isn't the best ECU available for a miata. There's a 2K dollar AEM that's no longer in production that is better. There's a Hydra that's over 2K and it's better too. Few others as well. MS isn't the best. It's the best VALUE. It will do enough to boost your car and have some features, it's easy to use, easy to tune, and CHEAP.
Pat, maybe wolfman is referring to cranking issues when cold with MS. I think that has been an issue with some MS owners. On the other hand, you won't get better support for any Miata EMS anywhere than what you'll get here for the MS.

I use an AEM and even though I feel like my car runs smoother with it than with the MS, I must say I'm completely on my own when it comes to learning new tuning tricks with it. Some guys in this forum know more about tuning than a lot of "professional" tuners you may encounter. That's definitely not the case with me. As my sig states: I'm Mechanically Challenged (and proud of it!) and don't have the time to learn about tuning.
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:23 AM   #15
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Thanks for your thoughts, gis.

Maybe I'll buy and assemble a MS-DIY standalone just for fun. Maybe I'll even want to install it when I'm done. Sounds like a decent winter project. Is it easy to switch between the MS standalone and the stock ecu while I get the MS sorted out? I'm not too stoked about grounding the miata.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
And the recommended approach would be to get the MS up and running for some time to get that ironed out with 460cc or 550cc injectors, wideband, and IAP? Piece together the IC, exhaust, BOV, intake, and turbo over time, then install them all at once when ready?
Don't forget the clutch...
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:49 PM   #17
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don't forget the clutch...
+1!
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:29 PM   #18
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Okay, I just realized that by the thread count, this is mostly, if not overwhelmingly, a Megasquirt diy forum. How solved is the MSdiy solution? Is it a huge time commitment to get to a solid reliable 170-250 whp? 20 hrs? 200 hrs? 500 hrs?
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
Okay, I just realized that by the thread count, this is mostly, if not overwhelmingly, a Megasquirt diy forum. How solved is the MSdiy solution? Is it a huge time commitment to get to a solid reliable 170-250 whp? 20 hrs? 200 hrs? 500 hrs?
You can buy an MSPNP from DiYAutotune (a supporting vendor) at a very good price. You don't need to make your own.

Regarding how many hours to get to 170-250 whp reliably; how good are you mechanically? If you're good, it won't take you many hours.
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