AFR signal oscillation in TS
 

So far I've rewired the AFR gauge/controller, added the ECU ground, replaced O2 sensor and controller box, checked voltage of AFR analog signal at the D15 pin and had steady voltages.

So must be something inside the MS2pnp?
But what exactly, I remeber on my old ECU adjustable component that guy fried was part of the AFR circuit but DIYAutotune sent this one as good?. Are there adjustments to be made?

what wbo2?

Oops sorry,
Prosport EVO series
it's a basic linear AFR it seems - 0.00v = 10, 4.99=19.98 are the two points I always used (worked fine before) from the chart they gave for it.

Now proceed to throw it in the garbage and get a non-crappy wideband.

I'm completely serious.

does your TS gauge have teh same amount of filtering/damping on the signal to make it appear smooth?

Crappy huh?

I didn't know TS had filtering/damping for wideband signal?

No, that's his point. Throw it in the trash and get a real wideband. There are some things you can use prosport cheap crappy gauges for. Wideband is not one of them.

Please explain?
So maybe it's gauge and controller are different. O2 is just about the same as any other. It's never caused me problems and there's no problem with the signal it's giving the MS, just how MS is using it/doing with it it seems.
So exactly how isn't it a real wideband? Because it's made in china, like churbros? How exactly is it crappy?


I hope you're not thinking asking in a condescending or rude tone, I'd actually really like to know. I've seen a lot of mixed reviews. Some absolutely hate them others love them.
Just like a definitive review from people I actually know don't talk out their ass just because some guy they know hates them too.

AIM Tuning uses these widebands in their Spec Miata builds and others...

While i doubt they're top end stuff, i also highly doubt that they're complete garbage, despite being made by PovertySport. The sensor itself isn't anything different from the widebands that most of us get moist over, and wideband controllers aren't exactly voodoo magic these days.


That said, i have nothing to really help you with.



Ok, i actually bothered to watch the video now. First things first: i would bet that your output does in fact refresh faster than the gauge display is. AND it's also offset by almost a half point when compared to what TS is averaging. That's probably what i'd consider the larger issue.

The secondary issue is that the dampening/smoothing/averaging that Brain was referencing is quite obviously not the same between the gauge display and TS. No idea what you'd do about that. I do know that my LC-1 display will move about as fast as your TS display is, which means... way faster than your actual gauge display. Some people like that, some people hate it.


Does the same sort of thing happen when driving?

Yes it's semi all over the place during driving but you can still tell the Average that you mentioned.
I have a data log I did last night of doing up the street I'll post after my tuning computer boots up.

I honestly just like the look of the gauges. It fits what I'm trying to do with the car (black/blue thing)
I don't particularly like the look of the other gauges. The cheap part has nothing to really do with it. By my build thread anyone should know I'm not exactly the one to just cheep out on things.

Now if there's an innovate that looks like my gauges, I'm down for this "replace the shit gauge" IF they proved to be shit. Though, if it somehow is the gauge I'm fine with replacing. I've been wanting to move my gauges to my center console anyway.

It's not as pretty as your gauge, but it is blue.

Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w LC-2 & Blue DB Gauge - 3795 DIYAutoTune.com

Also look at the Zeitronix ZT-2/ZT-3 if you have a burning need for blue.

Indeed it is! I appreciate that nuge. $210 isn't to back either.
LC-2 is the newest controller type of theirs isn't it? I keep hearing LC-1's are a nightmare to wire up but these lc-2's don't looke bad at all.

Here attached is the datalog from driving around a little

I don't know that i'd call the LC-1 a "nightmare" to wire up. It's more complicated than it needs to be, but that's to be expected from a decade old wideband controller. That wideband has no real relevance in the present day.

Which of course, is why i run one.

that's exactly why I'm telling you to ditch the chinese knockoff gauge that no one knows ANYTHING about and more importantly, no one has posted any real information that proves that this thing actually shows precise and accurate AFR' values rather than a good guess lol

I wouldn't trust my engine's health to something like that.

Look at even the china turbo's - sure they have been holding up, but no one can even dare claim reliability or anything like that. Everyone gets one knowing that when (not if) it goes out, they will throw it away and replace with another. Most don't explode blowing chunks of metal into the engine, they simply seize or just blow a seal or something.

Now look at a wideband: your ecu (and therefore your )engine depends on it 100% for its life and well being. If its off by a point or two, you blow your crap all over the road or melt something.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. My research led me to believe that: all these china widebands are only cool to look at, never regarded as a valid tool for tuning an engine. Most people laugh when you mention using them for actual tuning and not just colorful observation of what MIGHT be your AFR's

LC-1/2 w/VEI gauge?
VEI Intelligent Digital Gauges
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382737998https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382737998

As for my guess why you're having the oscillation, its this:
I don't think prosport actually expected most users to wire this into a proper EMS and use it for precise fuel tuning. So they didn't really work on precise and steady output.

I've used tons of AEM's and now an Innovate in all the megasquirts I've tuned and never had it oscillate like that.

I dunno, just a guess.

I've always wondered about that, actually... I'm assuming this is really only something to be worried about when you're running like...5psi and no intercooler, right?

That was actually a baller post Vlad.
I would actually like the LC2 DB gauge that is like AEMs serial gauge but that's a special AEMgauge>AEMems relationship I do believe.

Or just have 3 essential LC2 DB gauges.

EO2K those gauges are interesting. I wonder if lc1 is required

Set your lambda averaging lag factor to 100 (raw signal) in TS, and then observe the shittiness of your wideband and tune.

VEI Systems -- Intelligent Vehicle Instrumentation -- Products: Instruments <--Direct linky to AFR gauge.

Yes, some sort of external controller is required. I'll be using an LC-1 and I have a VEI boost/afr gauge in an orange that very closely matches my cluster. It will be installed in place of my useless NB oil pressure gauge once I finish my cluster project.

I believe VEI offers Blue, Red, Orange, White and Green even though they are not listed on the website.

Thanks for the shit tune comment.
Fuck it, I'll make a video checking the voltage. So sick of this.

I deliver. Try not to be distracted by my very sensual hairy manly man legs.


Shortly after this I fixed some Accel Enrich and took a ride to tune out some very rich spots. Was a very productive ride. Also, I'm pretty sure I got my first "gay" or "fag" comment since the motor build, from some kid at a light. He(passanger) waited till he got the green turn light and yelled something at me). Stupid wanna-be florida rednecks... I got it on GoPro too! Still dunno what he said though.

Okay Kevin

I looked for a way to set the lambda averaging lag factor in my TunerStudio application, but such a setting was not readily apparent.

So can you explain where that adjustment is made.

Thanks

Basic settings>General/Lags

This may or may not help, but some ideas to consider/try:

1) When you checked the O2 voltage at the D15 plug, what did you use as a ground for the voltmeter? If you didn't the first time around, try grounding the voltmeter at the ECU to give you an indication of whether a grounding problem could be in the picture. If you have a constant delat in the AFR between the gauge and the ECM, then that is an indication that the gauge isn't grounded at the ECM, which is best practice.

2) I would recheck voltage at the DB15 with an analog voltmeter. The digital voltmeter could have some smoothing applied to the output to make it "easier" to read or could sample at a low rate (no idea how digital voltmeters are designed). A simple analog voltmeter should show more of a "real time" view. An actual scope would be best of course or a voltmeter with a fast, known sampling rate. (real EE please chime in)

3) Crack the MS case open and see if you have let the magic smoke out :-)

Good luck!

[QUOTE=Impuls;1067665]Basic settings>General/Lags[/QUOTE

I am using TunerStudio MS 2.0.8 and see no such adjustment under Basic settings

Damn that magic smoke! haha
When I checked the voltage I used chassis ground, DIY suggested moving the ground to the head/ engine instead of the chassis so I'm going to move the AFR and ECU ground the the head see if that improves anything.

I'll use the ECU GROUND pin next time I check the voltage. Just gotta find someone with an analog voltmeter.
I've also been told when grounding the AFR I don't want to do it to another ground of a sensor or anything (like the grounding bold on the back of the head)


Update update update!



_________________EDIT
Also, this may be unrelated but my Tach in my gauge cluster read different from what TS tells me. At idle(still a little high) of 1200rpm in TS my gauge cluster reads 900 but revving to 4000rpm on my gauge cluster TS shows 3500. I noticed this last night when tuning some rich fuel spots.

TS website tells me V-2.0.8 is the most up to date version

could the difference be due to me using a MS-PNP1 and you using either a 2 or 3?

Oh it's probably because you're MS1
My computer with TS 2.0.6 has it.

Basic Setup>General, Lags (near the bottom)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1383093558

same issue
 

Hello,

i´m having the exact same problem with my ProSport Wideband. Hast this ever been resolved or is buying some better controller the only way out?

Cheers

Martin