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Old 10-25-2013, 01:30 AM   #1
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Default AFR signal oscillation in TS


So far I've rewired the AFR gauge/controller, added the ECU ground, replaced O2 sensor and controller box, checked voltage of AFR analog signal at the D15 pin and had steady voltages.

So must be something inside the MS2pnp?
But what exactly, I remeber on my old ECU adjustable component that guy fried was part of the AFR circuit but DIYAutotune sent this one as good?. Are there adjustments to be made?
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:39 AM   #2
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what wbo2?
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:44 AM   #3
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Oops sorry,
Prosport EVO series
it's a basic linear AFR it seems - 0.00v = 10, 4.99=19.98 are the two points I always used (worked fine before) from the chart they gave for it.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:47 AM   #4
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Now proceed to throw it in the garbage and get a non-crappy wideband.

I'm completely serious.
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:48 AM   #5
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does your TS gauge have teh same amount of filtering/damping on the signal to make it appear smooth?
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:06 PM   #6
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Crappy huh?

I didn't know TS had filtering/damping for wideband signal?
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #7
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No, that's his point. Throw it in the trash and get a real wideband. There are some things you can use prosport cheap crappy gauges for. Wideband is not one of them.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
No, that's his point. Throw it in the trash and get a real wideband. There are some things you can use prosport cheap crappy gauges for. Wideband is not one of them.
Please explain?
So maybe it's gauge and controller are different. O2 is just about the same as any other. It's never caused me problems and there's no problem with the signal it's giving the MS, just how MS is using it/doing with it it seems.
So exactly how isn't it a real wideband? Because it's made in china, like churbros? How exactly is it crappy?


I hope you're not thinking asking in a condescending or rude tone, I'd actually really like to know. I've seen a lot of mixed reviews. Some absolutely hate them others love them.
Just like a definitive review from people I actually know don't talk out their *** just because some guy they know hates them too.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
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AIM Tuning uses these widebands in their Spec Miata builds and others...

While i doubt they're top end stuff, i also highly doubt that they're complete garbage, despite being made by PovertySport. The sensor itself isn't anything different from the widebands that most of us get moist over, and wideband controllers aren't exactly voodoo magic these days.


That said, i have nothing to really help you with.



Ok, i actually bothered to watch the video now. First things first: i would bet that your output does in fact refresh faster than the gauge display is. AND it's also offset by almost a half point when compared to what TS is averaging. That's probably what i'd consider the larger issue.

The secondary issue is that the dampening/smoothing/averaging that Brain was referencing is quite obviously not the same between the gauge display and TS. No idea what you'd do about that. I do know that my LC-1 display will move about as fast as your TS display is, which means... way faster than your actual gauge display. Some people like that, some people hate it.


Does the same sort of thing happen when driving?
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
AIM Tuning uses these widebands in their Spec Miata builds and others...

While i doubt they're top end stuff, i also highly doubt that they're complete garbage, despite being made by PovertySport. The sensor itself isn't anything different from the widebands that most of us get moist over, and wideband controllers aren't exactly voodoo magic these days.


That said, i have nothing to really help you with.



Ok, i actually bothered to watch the video now. First things first: i would bet that your output does in fact refresh faster than the gauge display is. AND it's also offset by almost a half point when compared to what TS is averaging. That's probably what i'd consider the larger issue.

The secondary issue is that the dampening/smoothing/averaging that Brain was referencing is quite obviously not the same between the gauge display and TS. No idea what you'd do about that. I do know that my LC-1 display will move about as fast as your TS display is, which means... way faster than your actual gauge display. Some people like that, some people hate it.


Does the same sort of thing happen when driving?
Yes it's semi all over the place during driving but you can still tell the Average that you mentioned.
I have a data log I did last night of doing up the street I'll post after my tuning computer boots up.

I honestly just like the look of the gauges. It fits what I'm trying to do with the car (black/blue thing)
I don't particularly like the look of the other gauges. The cheap part has nothing to really do with it. By my build thread anyone should know I'm not exactly the one to just cheep out on things.

Now if there's an innovate that looks like my gauges, I'm down for this "replace the **** gauge" IF they proved to be ****. Though, if it somehow is the gauge I'm fine with replacing. I've been wanting to move my gauges to my center console anyway.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:33 PM   #11
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It's not as pretty as your gauge, but it is blue.

Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w LC-2 & Blue DB Gauge - 3795 DIYAutoTune.com
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #12
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Also look at the Zeitronix ZT-2/ZT-3 if you have a burning need for blue.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
It's not as pretty as your gauge, but it is blue.

Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w LC-2 & Blue DB Gauge - 3795 DIYAutoTune.com
Indeed it is! I appreciate that nuge. $210 isn't to back either.
LC-2 is the newest controller type of theirs isn't it? I keep hearing LC-1's are a nightmare to wire up but these lc-2's don't looke bad at all.

Here attached is the datalog from driving around a little
Attached Files
File Type: msl Around the block.msl (1.08 MB, 67 views)
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #14
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I don't know that i'd call the LC-1 a "nightmare" to wire up. It's more complicated than it needs to be, but that's to be expected from a decade old wideband controller. That wideband has no real relevance in the present day.

Which of course, is why i run one.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impuls View Post
By my build thread anyone should know I'm not exactly the one to just cheep out on things.

Now if there's an innovate that looks like my gauges, I'm down for this "replace the **** gauge" IF they proved to be ****. Though, if it somehow is the gauge I'm fine with replacing. I've been wanting to move my gauges to my center console anyway.
that's exactly why I'm telling you to ditch the chinese knockoff gauge that no one knows ANYTHING about and more importantly, no one has posted any real information that proves that this thing actually shows precise and accurate AFR' values rather than a good guess lol

I wouldn't trust my engine's health to something like that.

Look at even the china turbo's - sure they have been holding up, but no one can even dare claim reliability or anything like that. Everyone gets one knowing that when (not if) it goes out, they will throw it away and replace with another. Most don't explode blowing chunks of metal into the engine, they simply seize or just blow a seal or something.

Now look at a wideband: your ecu (and therefore your )engine depends on it 100% for its life and well being. If its off by a point or two, you blow your crap all over the road or melt something.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. My research led me to believe that: all these china widebands are only cool to look at, never regarded as a valid tool for tuning an engine. Most people laugh when you mention using them for actual tuning and not just colorful observation of what MIGHT be your AFR's
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:53 PM   #16
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LC-1/2 w/VEI gauge?
VEI Intelligent Digital Gauges
Attached Thumbnails
AFR signal oscillation in TS-dual-gauge-rb-sm.jpg   AFR signal oscillation in TS-dual-d1-gauge-rb-sm.jpg  
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #17
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As for my guess why you're having the oscillation, its this:
I don't think prosport actually expected most users to wire this into a proper EMS and use it for precise fuel tuning. So they didn't really work on precise and steady output.

I've used tons of AEM's and now an Innovate in all the megasquirts I've tuned and never had it oscillate like that.

I dunno, just a guess.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
that's exactly why I'm telling you to ditch the chinese knockoff gauge that no one knows ANYTHING about and more importantly, no one has posted any real information that proves that this thing actually shows precise and accurate AFR' values rather than a good guess lol

I wouldn't trust my engine's health to something like that.

Look at even the china turbo's - sure they have been holding up, but no one can even dare claim reliability or anything like that. Everyone gets one knowing that when (not if) it goes out, they will throw it away and replace with another. Most don't explode blowing chunks of metal into the engine, they simply seize or just blow a seal or something.

Now look at a wideband: your ecu (and therefore your )engine depends on it 100% for its life and well being. If its off by a point or two, you blow your crap all over the road or melt something.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research. My research led me to believe that: all these china widebands are only cool to look at, never regarded as a valid tool for tuning an engine. Most people laugh when you mention using them for actual tuning and not just colorful observation of what MIGHT be your AFR's

I've always wondered about that, actually... I'm assuming this is really only something to be worried about when you're running like...5psi and no intercooler, right?
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #19
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That was actually a baller post Vlad.
I would actually like the LC2 DB gauge that is like AEMs serial gauge but that's a special AEMgauge>AEMems relationship I do believe.

Or just have 3 essential LC2 DB gauges.

EO2K those gauges are interesting. I wonder if lc1 is required
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #20
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Set your lambda averaging lag factor to 100 (raw signal) in TS, and then observe the shittiness of your wideband and tune.
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