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Old 01-02-2008, 02:48 PM   #1
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Default AFR targets for N/A car

So since I don't have turbo any more I need some help with tuning for N/A. Here is a list of power adders:
- MS obviously
- LC-1
- JR cold air intake
- eBay headers
- FM cat
- eBay 2.5" exhaust
- AFM deleted (doesn't work anyways)
- stock injectors
- stock 97 block

Any idea what AFR targets I should tune for? I was thinking 15:1 on idle and 13:1 at redline (7,000 RPM)
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:05 PM   #2
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you want lean at low load, 16-17 at cruise is fine/safe
rich at highest load, 13:1 is good

somewhere in between for the rest.

you might need a richer idle than that with the MS to avoid misfiring. mine likes around 13.5 at idle.

with an 8x8 table for just up to 101kpa you will have great resolution
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:12 PM   #3
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anyone has a good timing map?
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:32 PM   #4
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try this
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AFR targets for N/A car-na_afr.jpg  
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:36 PM   #5
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Use DIYs timing map.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:47 PM   #6
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I took the DIY map and stretched it out to use the whole map for up to 101kpa to increase the res. i richened up the upper part too as i have seen proof of that increasing hp/tq on an NA car. i'll be running that on my NA car as soon as my new MS comes
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:49 PM   #7
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cool, thanks a lot!
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:09 PM   #8
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When playing with timing, don't forget to take gas into account b/c I believe that all of the turbo guys are using premium which is 93 out here on the east coast, so using regular 87 or CA premium 91, you might have to be a bit more conservative when bumping up the timing. Just a thought.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
try this

Thats good except you dont need 500 and 1000 rpm rows. Ego correction shouldnt be enabled during idle. Start the table at 1500 and up. Thats my .2 cents.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:16 PM   #10
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im running 91 in my cars which is the top gas you can get here. im also installing knocksense ms so im not too worried about detonation
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:29 PM   #11
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I have my car road tuned pretty well (according to my logs). I didn't have to touch enrichments, 30mpg open loop / ego correction off on the highway, and so much more pull from 3000-4400rpm, then lots more hp from 5k on. Its faster everywhere in the rpm band. I still have not adjusted spark at all, and don't plan on it until I get the new motor in and get on a dyno. A friend and I staged 2nd and 3rd gear highway pulls. I slightly walked his 94 with an intake, RB header, and exhuast. I was impressed considering I also have the 4.10 rear end in.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:57 PM   #12
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cool. i hope to get anywhere from 110-120whp and about 120tqe+ on this setup. will see what happens...
here is the plan:
- get car running by january 20th (suspension, wheels, complete exhaust side, ms tweaks, tuning)
- drive it for a week
- fine tune megasquirt & get alignment done
- make another map for daily driving (gas saver)
- drive for one more week
- finetune dd map
- dyno both maps
- track time in march or end of february
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSoot View Post
cool. i hope to get anywhere from 110-120whp and about 120tqe+ on this setup.
Good luck with that. Its going to take more than a MS to get 120 rwhp, even on a dynojet I think.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:48 PM   #14
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well, its fairly free-flowing system. i think its possible with some hardcore timing map
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:05 PM   #15
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there's a guy over on m.net claiming 130rwhp on a 99 engine in a CSP car. i don't know what exactly he's running in terms of mods, but it can't be all that different from what Urban's got (CSP rules and all), other than being a 99. So how much is the improved flow of the 99 head worth?
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:09 PM   #16
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about 10% i think
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Thats good except you dont need 500 and 1000 rpm rows. Ego correction shouldnt be enabled during idle. Start the table at 1500 and up. Thats my .2 cents.
except the car idles at 850-900 and VE Analyzer tunes those cells based on AFR targets.

by the way, .2 cents is 2 tenths of a cent.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:44 PM   #18
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I'm a little confused here.

I've got the VE table from DIY loaded into my MS, I'm using the LC-1 and have it setup for AFR Targets. I open up the AFR Targets for VE Table 1 (AFR) and my table is REALLY SUPER lean across the board!



I've run the car with these settings, however have NOT driven or run with the LC-1 hooked up and I've done ZERO tuning yet.. Fried the coils before I could get a change to install and test out the wideband.

Should I just go ahead and try the table you posted (Paul) and see what the data log says? Guess I'm just confused overall, have read the megamanual several times about tuning but I'm still not 100% understanding.

Is the VE Base table setup just a base config so it knows where to start, then the wideband helps the processor adjust fuel at a given RPM/KPa or do I need to fine tune the VE base table further? Am I understanding correctly that MegaLogViewer will take the Lambda data from a datalog and build me a proper VE table? Does that negate the need for the target VE AFR table?
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:58 PM   #19
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i ran my PNP in a friend's car and I'm not sure but i think it ignores the AFR target table with a narrowband. At least the one you access with the Megatune in the More Settings drop down. If thats the case you can ignore that table till the LC1 is installed

If you have your LC1 installed you better adjust your AFR table to more closer resemble mine or you are gonna have problems.

The purpose of the VE table is not just a base config. You should be able to tune it accurately enough that you reach your AFR targets without EGO feedback. At first you can consider the VE table as so but you tune it and retune it till you get the desired results. I can show you my AFR data from the dyno and you'll see the numbers are great from 12.5-12.1 at the tailpipe with a cat. That is with EGO set to 0.

MLV will take the AFR info from your data log and adjust your VE table accordingly to reach your AFR targets. So the need for an AFR Target table is not negated, it is needed for EGO or MLV (and i guess auto-tune)to do anything.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:13 PM   #20
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Okay I'll give that AFR target table you posted a shot with the DIY VE table and see what happens. At this point the LC1 has been calibrated and installed, just still waiting (have been since like, Dec 15th) for my COP connectors to come. Still have cold start enrich to play with, which I'm also not looking forward to. Its something like 13*F outside right now.. any pointers to startup enrich?
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