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Old 06-05-2013, 11:18 AM   #1
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Default AFR, VE, Timing chart review before dyno tune

Hey guys,

I'm having a dyno tune done this week and wanted to post my map and charts for review before the tune. I've been using Tunerstudio VEAL to tune what I can with driving the car, but want a full range tune.

Specs:
2004 MSM
BEGI S4 manifold and downpipe
Garrett 2560R with ported wastegate
Artech 3" exhaust
FIC 775cc
MS3x ECU
BEGI #2 FMIC
3.63 gears
AEM UEGO WB 02
Hallman Pro RX MBC set to 11 PSI (would like to go to 12-13 after tune)
GM AIT
Turbosmart BOV


Thanks in advance.

I've also included my MSQ incase someone has a few extra minutes of review time.
Attached Thumbnails
AFR, VE, Timing chart review before dyno tune-charts2.jpg   AFR, VE, Timing chart review before dyno tune-charts.jpg  
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File Type: msq 2013-05-28_before changes.msq (174.5 KB, 90 views)
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #2
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Sounds like a nice setup you've got there, should be a fun ride.

Assuming this is on 93 octane, I feel like you could safely add more timing and save yourself some time on the dyno. Then again, I'm use to looking at 9:1 CR timing maps so you may be closer than what I'm thinking. I'd be interested to see some opinions from other NB2 guys.

You know, that turbo would really like 14-15 psi...
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:51 AM   #3
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Unfortunately there is only 91 Octane here in Maine (at least around where I am). I know the timing is conservative, but in all honesty I understand the AFR’s and the VE fuel tables, but timing just gets me lost. How do I know what is good, what is bad, too much, not enough… I feel dumb when it comes to that.

I know the turbo would LOVE more PSI, but I’m not so sure about the stock MSM engine. 
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #4
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Add timing until it either knocks or stops gaining power, whichever comes first.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #5
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Does these knock setting look correct? I'm having a hard time trusting the knock settings because it goes between %50-%80 at idle and I get the knock warning and it retards timing by 10 degrees. (This goes away as soon as throttle is given)

When tuning the timing and watching for knock, what perectage level is a good reference point to start backing off timing? %30, %50, %70 ???
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #6
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That part, i don't know. And on top of that, i just ditched an ECU with knock control on my MSM in favor of one that doesn't have it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #7
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I have it turned off at the moment because it isn't working correctly (in my thoughts).

What did you have?

Waht do you have now?
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:54 PM   #8
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Had a Hydra. Now have a Haltech.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #9
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you can add more timing at the last 1000rpm. like 4* more
tuning with knock sensor is a bad idea. use det cans instead.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckermon View Post
Does these knock setting look correct? I'm having a hard time trusting the knock settings because it goes between %50-%80 at idle and I get the knock warning and it retards timing by 10 degrees. (This goes away as soon as throttle is given)
Am I missing something here? If it is retarding timing in idle, just move the minimum detection up to 1200 rpm. It's right there in the picture you posted.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:05 AM   #11
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Heres an updated spark map. I also moved the range up to 1500 RPM for timing retarding during knock.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:55 PM   #12
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I could never get away with that much timing int he 180kpa row. I'm interested to see what your tuned table looks like.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #13
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After reviewing that I agree thats a bit much. I'll update after the tune. I wish I'd have had more comments on the files before tomorrows tune.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:14 AM   #14
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Well?!
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:54 AM   #15
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Sub'ed
I may cross reference to see if my settings for my MSM are good.
I have forged internals though.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:12 AM   #16
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Ok, I was able to get on the dyno for about 2 hrs. I made a headphone det the night before and they worked great and I'm glad I had them. With the spark map above I had a bit of det around 3500 RPM and found a fuel hole in the same area. I was able to run VEAL in "hard" mode and run the car through the gears at different boost levels to smooth my map a bit. I then reduced VEAL to "normal" and did a few more runs. I then was able to run the car in certain areas of RPM/boost that I was concerned with and tune them manually until I was happy with the tune and comfortable with the spark. I still am running a bit rich at WOT (10.5 afr) but will work that out little bit at a time. The end result was 239HP with 218 TQ. Not quite as much as I was hoping for (250HP) but I'd rather be safe then sorry.

Please note that this was done solo by me, the shop I used for the dyno doesn't touch Megasquirt and is a VW/Audi specialized shop. I'm sure I could get the tune a little better but I don't know of any shops anywhere near me that would do that. This was the only dyno shop I know of within a 70 miles radius.


I'll post charts when I can.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:27 AM   #17
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It will be interesting to see how much you backed down on that more aggressive spark map you use. My bet is you will be within 1-1.5* of the basemap I provided.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:33 AM   #18
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I think my map is mutch closer to the original map that was posted. I used the ms3 knock sensor. I had to pull quite a bit of timing out of my map.

The problem with dynotuning is that you dont really know competancy of the tuner.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:44 PM   #19
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Using a dyno to tune fuel is a huge waste of money (unless the car is not street legal).
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:48 AM   #20
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I don't have the laptop I did the tuning with me at the moment. I'll post both maps for comparison. I used the dyno to be able to tune the spark and upper boost fuel levels. I figured that way a could hold RPM and boost is certain areas I knew we're off a bit to tune them safely and legally (the street isn't a place to tune those areas.
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