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Old 08-10-2010, 11:24 AM   #21
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$900+ for a tune sounds way to high with MS. I know when I had Jerry @ DIYAutoTune tune my car 2 years ago I paid about 400$ for my tune. I figure when my built motor is running correctly it will be a little more then that to get re-tuned, but that will be because I am going for a good bit more power and have a more complicated setup.
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:13 PM   #22
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AMS > DIY

Let me know when DIY does GTR.

Last edited by hustler; 08-10-2010 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 01:42 PM   #23
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lol @ the haters
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:01 PM   #24
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RESULTS ARE IN with said setup... keep in mind its a MUSTANG dyno blahhhh

213 whp
191 tq

torque is a table top from 3400 rpm to redline
12.5 psi reached by 3400 rpm

1.5 hours = $352.50
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:16 PM   #25
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Nice numbers, did AMS change their dyno? It was a dynojet before.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctct View Post
RESULTS ARE IN with said setup... keep in mind its a MUSTANG dyno blahhhh

213 whp
191 tq

torque is a table top from 3400 rpm to redline
12.5 psi reached by 3400 rpm

1.5 hours = $352.50
Good price and good equipment. How far "back" are you from MBT or detonation? You're still 20whp under FM's advertised FMII output numbers...which is typical for every FMII car I've seen on a dyno. Still, its a fast car though.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:44 PM   #27
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Didn't take them long, thats for sure.
Did they tell you what was holding you back from making higher numbers???
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:47 PM   #28
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as far as the dyno, it said mustang dyno on it... they have a new location in west chicago, moved from arlington heights.

as for detonation, i told him to put it at a safe DD tune, so he did and said he has no worries... he also said it was a clean pull the whole time and ran well. but he did say if i am ever on a road course to put like 100 octane gas in there... but i wont be on a road course.... FOR A WHILE
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:09 PM   #29
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That's what I was waiting for. Not too shabby. Time wise and price wise, that sounds pretty reasonable. Congrats!

Now HKSturboMiata needs to post his numbers so we can see what that silly GT30 does.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
AMS > DIY
Let me know when DIY does GTR.
When someone pays them to? Why do you say they are necessarily better?

arctct can you post your timing chart and the actual dyno graph? I am curious as to what it is running compared to what DIY got on my 94.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:18 PM   #31
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I'd still like to know their interpretation of "safe" in terms of retard from MBT.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:57 PM   #32
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goofy shitty quality vid

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Old 08-11-2010, 03:27 AM   #33
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thanks shane! yeah bad quality but a video nonetheless... wow it jumps passed 60mph so quickly even when rolling onto boost in 3rd at 3000rpm! so much better than stock.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:20 AM   #34
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I am curious what is done in a tuning session. Several dyno runs. Data log then VE analyze? Do they run a WB O2 in the tailpipe? It would be sweet to take video of the process.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heychris View Post
I am curious what is done in a tuning session. Several dyno runs. Data log then VE analyze? Do they run a WB O2 in the tailpipe? It would be sweet to take video of the process.
They first get fuel dialed in, then start adding spark until they see no increase in output or get detonation. Then, hopefully they roll spark back to compensate for heat-soak, timing belt stretch, and general inaccuracy of a two-tooth trigger. I don't know that any real "secrets" or magic exists in tuning, its all pretty simple from what I've seen; a good tuner looks at limiting factors that can lead to detonation and put a large enough buffer in that you'll never see it. I could add another 6* of spark accross the board on my spark table but considering everything I've listed I can hang the tach at 6krpm in 6th and not worry about the engine coming apart.

Most of the time "tuners" shove the WB in the tail pipe, post cat, and guess how effective the cat converter is. I wouldn't dare do this on a track car with a cat.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I can hang the tach at 6krpm in 6th and not worry about the engine coming apart.

umm you could run a little more timing in the cells you would be in while "hanging @ 6k in 6th" (which would be high rpm/ med. load) compared to wot. if by "hanging" you mean holding it at 6k, it doesn't seem like you would need wot. but i usually don't cruise at that speed, so i'm not positive. i know i can cruise 4th (which is like your 5th) at 6k with approx. 50-60% throttle

Most of the time "tuners" shove the WB in the tail pipe, post cat, and guess how effective the cat converter is. I wouldn't dare do this on a track car with a cat.
i've ran a downpipe mounted wbo2 along with a dyno provided wide band in the tail pipe, and the difference is in the tenths of a point. plus, most of the dyno's use a copper tube sniffer that gets shoved way up in there, so the difference in negligible. plus, any tuner can compensate a couple tenths afr for a tailpipe o2 sniffer. if it blows because of that, it was waayyyy to lean to begin with. i've done 3 personal track cars like this ranging from 200 to 400whp, without a single problem. and know of atleast 10 other cars that were tuned like that and run perfectly. many of them run nasa time trials or wheel to wheel.

not trying to bust your *****, but i hate mis-information on the net, and especially on forums i like. also it's pretty ridiculous to assume that because you tuned your own personal car, (only 1 car at that) that it's easy.

Last edited by spoolin2bars; 08-14-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolin2bars View Post
not trying to bust your *****, but i hate mis-information on the net, and especially on forums i like. also it's pretty ridiculous to assume that because you tuned your own personal car, (only 1 car at that) that it's easy.
I know I could run a little more spark angle in every cell, but I can run the car to the rev-limit in 6th and I'm confident it won't detonate. When I picked-up my engine from the machinist he gave me a stern talking-to about tuning and his definition of a "safe" tune, and then showed me a handful of motors that ran a season on light detonation which they didn't see on the dyno and thought was tuned-out by a tuner that everyone get's excited over because all his NDRA wins and pieces of paper from EFI University. This is why I ask people how much spark they pulled from MBT or detonation because I believe that is the real safety-measure.

If I had a proper trigger wheel I'd put 3* of spark back into it. I don't trust the timing belt, the 2-tooth wheel, nor the heat-soak. I've also checked AFR on 3-dynos and determined from the Exatorq/Mustang dyno that my LC-1 is .1 leaner than reality when measured from the calibration gas. When compared to the LC-1, there was a .4 difference on the DD in Austin, no difference on the Exatorq Mustang in Garland, and 1.5 difference from BEGi's dyno (at the San Marcos shop) to reality.

I don't think tuning is "easy", nor do I think I'm an anywhere near an expert, but I affirm that tuning fuel and spark is not a black-art or mystery. Its a straightforward set of rules and allowances for the shortcomings of MS and the Miata electronics. I've tuned 4-total FI cars as favors for friends and they're all still running.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:20 PM   #38
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watching chris tune my car was pretty interesting. he does these weird routines with the throttle at different rpm, makes a change, then does some other rhythmic routine... its not til later do the redline pulls happen... you can really tell its his day job lol
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctct View Post
watching chris tune my car was pretty interesting. he does these weird routines with the throttle at different rpm, makes a change, then does some other rhythmic routine... its not til later do the redline pulls happen... you can really tell its his day job lol
So care to post a dyno plot and a spark table?
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:09 AM   #40
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So care to post a dyno plot and a spark table?
i will... ill post my whole msq for the guys looking for a base map with a similar setup... ill grab the msq when i change my spark dwell time for my brand spanking fresh COPs

i gotta scan the dyno chart, tried to photograph it... epic FAIL
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