Anyone running MS2 (need help)
 

I have my MS2 mostly put together. Im getting rpm and all my inputs, fuel is not an issue. The anxiety attack that is "Spark" has struck again however. I DO get spark, I tested this by pulling a COP and holding it to the metal lifting tab. One of my wandering hands (thanks to an eager friend turning the key) got a nice zap ~2/3" through the air from the COP. I have the DIY spark mod made up, but no matter if I set it to inverted/normal, or swap the outputs for either combo can I get it to catch and run. The best I can get is a super loud backfire every now and then that sounds like a shotgun going off.

I have also tried the circuit show for the 4g63 on the ms2extra manual/faq, also swaping the wires and trying normal/inverted, without and success. At this point I know I am getting <some> spark but I think it may be a config problem.

I could have swore that one of you had been messing with getting ms2 running, but I don't remember who it was or if you were ever successful.

I attached my .msq you will probably need the newest alpha to view it.

Brian

Friend of mine has it done, he posts on m.net only though, his screen name is Nathan M-ED

He has his car running just fine, so I'm sure he can help you

is he natesully on msextra? if so i just pmed him

Arga runs MS2 successfully.

well hopefully he sees the thread :) I dont wanna do it all through pms cause someone may say something that will help others in the future.

PM him a link to your thread, as well as attempt to email it to him if he allows it through his profile.

Yeah, Natesully is his screen name on msextra. I'm sure he can help you

Nope, Natesully is someone else. My name at msextra is still "arga". Actually, if I remember right, I think Natesully was the first to run ms2extra on a Miata. He's probably not a bad person to talk to.

How are you running COP on a 92? Is it wasted spark COP like on the 01+ Miatas?

What pin on the processor (daughter board) are you running your cam signal to?

I'm not sure if you know this already but, unlike ms1extra, the signals for the cam and crank signals need to be the same polarity. So if your crank is normally low but goes high for an "event" then your cam signal needs to as well. It's almost 1am and I'm not too sharp right now but I believe the opto-isolator circuit used for Hall inputs inverts the signal.

Do you have an O-scope?

Also, are you getting the green "synced" or the red "not synced" message in the lower right hand corner of MegaTune?

My first post states that im getting rpm signal and fuel, so my input mods are fine. I did them exactly how they say to in the ms2extra manual. The crank input goes through the opto and the cam through pullup. I also am getting spark but its not firing properly or something.

I wasn't refering to you when I asked about natesully, I have been talking to him tonight through pms on msextra though and he's given me some good ideas to try out....this afternoon. I confident that I either just have the coils wired backwards or that something in my config is backward.

Right now its wired for ws, but im gonna wire it for sequential eventually probly, although im not sure there will really be any gain from it. The COPs running dwell is so short already that wasted spark shouldnt really hurt them or their performance.

Ignore my previous post. I was barely conscious when I read this. I should know better than posting when I'm that tired.

What do you see with a timing light?

A cheap PC based oscilloscope is nice for this kind of troubleshooting and you don't have to worry about frying coils. I got one for <$100.

I haven't seen your msq yet. I'll look at it tonight.

hey you can use speakerworkshop as a type of oscilloscope.

http://www.audua.com/

complete with awesome huge manual:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resou...anual/SWM2.zip

It's got everything in there on how to build the input probes and get your signals and all that.

I have a usb ocsilliscope actually. havent installed it because I dropped the class i was gonna use it in last semester. I'll go grab that.

I took out my cops and stuck the spark plugs in them. I could hear spark but couldnt see it, and it would only happen on the first couple cranks. I'm not sure if the diy mod will work with ms2 or not now.

I'm about to throw this thing out the window. I'd run it over with my car, but you know what....i cant get any spark to run it!

I pulled all the plugs and tested them to see if they were all sparking and in the correct order (ms2 test mode :) ) At first I would get a couple sparks for like 2-3 cranks and it would stop. Now I'm getting nothing. If i stick in the stock ecu, that car still runs fine. I really need to talk with some one on AIM or something where I can hold a converstion without having to wait hours for replies.

Natesully on MSEXTRA and Nathan M-ED on m.net are the same person. I know this as I personally know the guy, as in we go to college together, are in the sports car club at A&M, etc. He does have MS2extra running his miata and is very knowledgeable. He is currently in the process of having MS run EVERYTHING on the car like DIYAutotune's PNP setup, so not only A/C, but the entire emissions system like the evap canister and such.

ok i got spark and the car "running". Yet again, I could not get diy's spark mod to work, this time though I did have the transistors in but it simply didnt work. So I went with just the same thing I had before.

The car starts but it is running really rough. To make matters worse, when the car starts megatune stops responding completely so I cant change anything realtime. While I am checking timing with ms set at a fixed angle of 10* the timing is very erratic, and the car runs rough. Timing jumps between 0 and some negative number. Even when changing the trigger angle up to +-15* the timing doesnt change on the pulley.

While its running though I get ~16.5 afr on the stock narrowband, so that seems about right. I'm just running diy's ve and ign tables.

brian it may not be any help, but you're one of the pioneers of the MS2 platform in a miata and it's something I'd consider valuable to see you work through the process. you know, in case some day I want to run it.

Well so far the only difference is just the input mods, which worked 100% the very first time I tried to crank the motor. Its the spark mods that have een giving me the biggest headache. They did the same thing on the ms1 though too. From my reading and now experience, the crank/cam input mods are different from ms1 to ms2, but the spark mods can remain the same. Once I actually get it running I will post a nice little write up and make a good diagram of it.

I'm not sure why you are having problems with DIY's directions on board mods. I installed my MS 2 weeks ago following their instructions step by step and my car runs great. From what I can tell is people might be forgetting to jumper XG1 to XG2, OPTOIN to TACHSELECT, and TSEL to OPTOOUT. Other than that their directions are spot on.

i dont think i can do that with the ms2 input mods. It already uses the opto for the crank signal

This is a link to the ms2extra manual:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-...ition.htm#4g63

Go down to the paragraph that starts "MS2 Extra 4/2 Mitsubishi CAS board mods & general info". About 2/3 down the paragraph it says "We need different input mods over MS1 Extra because BOTH crank and cam signals must be of the same polarity." The DIY mods are obviously based on MS1 Extra.

I have a 99 which is a different animal and others have made this work with the DIY mods. So, I may be totally off but, there it is right off the MS2Extra manual.

[WAG]If MS was triggering off the wrong edge of the crank signal your timing might be off by the width of the crank signal.[/WAG]

I've refered to the manual multiple times in my posts already, I used those exact directions to make my input mods......When I crank the motor I get rpm and it tells me it is synced.

When I am saying the DIY mods, I am refering soley to SPARK, which has been all I've been talking about the entire time.

I'll retry the diy mods today, but im not holding my breath.

We haven't tested our mods on MS2/Extra code; they may need a few changes.

I'm outside warming up the car for more testing. It may have been a bad flash on my part. I will mod the board back to your spark mods in a few minutes and try it out. I'll post once I find anything out.

If you are using our spark mods, the CMP signal will need to go to JS10 instead of pin 11. That much I know needs to be changed.

ya ive already done that. I followed these input mods http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-...ition.htm#4g63

The inputs look good to me. The way im getting spark now is pulling directly from the top of r26 and r29 and then running a 470 ohm resistor in series to the output.

Hey arga,
Have you or anyone else documented how the MSII install is different so that we can all refer back to it. I've been thinking of doing MSII but all the information seems to be in pieces. So, I'm not exactly sure what I would need to do differently to get MSII working (I have a 2000 - so I would most resemble your build).

I didn't get much time to do anything with the ms today. Some of my roommates came back from summer break so i helped them move shit. Then we went to the movies. I just finished wired up the board for 4cyl sequential ignition and tested it with the ms2 ouput test mode. Its working great on the bench so I'll run the extra 2 wires tomorrow and it should start without much problem. Once I have it running for sure I'm gonna make some diagrams like DIY has on their site. One for wasted spark, and one for sequential. I PM'd jerry asking if he could send me a blank version of the MS v3 board picture they used for their diagrams, but I haven't gotten any reply yet.

Jerry's on a working vacation at SpeedWeek, supporting a 53 Stude shooting for 250+ mph. They got 209 mph Monday. Don't know about today. Can you imagine your Grandpa going 200+ in his Studebaker?

Congrats on the MSII--that's good stuff. If I stay 4cyl, I will definately jump on the MSIII.

are you contemplating a v8 swap in your future?

Yes. Considering these options:
1 Built 1.8 + turbo (already own BP block and 4W head)
2 Ford T'bird 3.9 (neat motor, 32V DOHC, VVT, 280hp/286lb ft, got one for a song)
3 LSx, probably the coolest option, also the most expensive
4 5.0, have owned several 5.0 Fords (and 1 351 cleveland) and they've all been great motors

Right now I'm leaning towards 1 or 4. I also have an olds 455 and TH400 I want to put into something, but don't see it fitting in the miata.

ok, so update time. I got spark outputting and ran into 2 different problems.

1) I am using the internal usb-serial converter that DIY sells. Apparently it has some known issues working with MSII that I didn't know about when ordering everything. As soon as the car starts megatune freezes when using it. When sitting or when cranking though it is fine (although it occasionally freezes when cranking). I have messed with MT settings and windows driver settings and tried every possible combination. I'm no beginner when it comes to computer troubleshooting, and it doesn't help that I can't find a post of anyone else having my exact problem on msextra.

2) I got spark working and the car would start and run, but it would be very rough. I figured that maybe it was the timing being off, but problem number 1 prevents me from changing the trigger angle properly. Additionally, the COPs would not react to the spark signal with any protective resistor in series with the spark output. When wired up with the resistors removed it would work, but the spark appeared visually to be weak. The spark looked "lazy" and was more or an weak orange color with no blue in it. Also it didnt just jump straight across, it would jump to different parts of the ground strap (plugs were good!)

I devoted 4 full days last week (my only break from school since spring break) to trying to get it to work out on the car. I really need to get an extra miata cas, an oscilliscope, and a bench psu. Maybe then I could get a little more "sick wit it".

Since school has started and I have a very full schedule with plenty of programming, hardware design, and kcl kvl equations ahead I have decided to just wire up the msI cpu again and just run the high res code for now.