Anyone running MS2 (need help)
08-12-2007, 08:55 PM
#1
Anyone running MS2 (need help)
I have my MS2 mostly put together. Im getting rpm and all my inputs, fuel is not an issue. The anxiety attack that is "Spark" has struck again however. I DO get spark, I tested this by pulling a COP and holding it to the metal lifting tab. One of my wandering hands (thanks to an eager friend turning the key) got a nice zap ~2/3" through the air from the COP. I have the DIY spark mod made up, but no matter if I set it to inverted/normal, or swap the outputs for either combo can I get it to catch and run. The best I can get is a super loud backfire every now and then that sounds like a shotgun going off.
I have also tried the circuit show for the 4g63 on the ms2extra manual/faq, also swaping the wires and trying normal/inverted, without and success. At this point I know I am getting <some> spark but I think it may be a config problem.
I could have swore that one of you had been messing with getting ms2 running, but I don't remember who it was or if you were ever successful.
I attached my .msq you will probably need the newest alpha to view it.
Brian
I have also tried the circuit show for the 4g63 on the ms2extra manual/faq, also swaping the wires and trying normal/inverted, without and success. At this point I know I am getting <some> spark but I think it may be a config problem.
I could have swore that one of you had been messing with getting ms2 running, but I don't remember who it was or if you were ever successful.
I attached my .msq you will probably need the newest alpha to view it.
Brian
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08-13-2007, 03:46 AM
#8
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Nope, Natesully is someone else. My name at msextra is still "arga". Actually, if I remember right, I think Natesully was the first to run ms2extra on a Miata. He's probably not a bad person to talk to.
How are you running COP on a 92? Is it wasted spark COP like on the 01+ Miatas?
What pin on the processor (daughter board) are you running your cam signal to?
I'm not sure if you know this already but, unlike ms1extra, the signals for the cam and crank signals need to be the same polarity. So if your crank is normally low but goes high for an "event" then your cam signal needs to as well. It's almost 1am and I'm not too sharp right now but I believe the opto-isolator circuit used for Hall inputs inverts the signal.
Do you have an O-scope?
How are you running COP on a 92? Is it wasted spark COP like on the 01+ Miatas?
What pin on the processor (daughter board) are you running your cam signal to?
I'm not sure if you know this already but, unlike ms1extra, the signals for the cam and crank signals need to be the same polarity. So if your crank is normally low but goes high for an "event" then your cam signal needs to as well. It's almost 1am and I'm not too sharp right now but I believe the opto-isolator circuit used for Hall inputs inverts the signal.
Do you have an O-scope?
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08-13-2007, 03:59 AM
#10
My first post states that im getting rpm signal and fuel, so my input mods are fine. I did them exactly how they say to in the ms2extra manual. The crank input goes through the opto and the cam through pullup. I also am getting spark but its not firing properly or something.
I wasn't refering to you when I asked about natesully, I have been talking to him tonight through pms on msextra though and he's given me some good ideas to try out....this afternoon. I confident that I either just have the coils wired backwards or that something in my config is backward.
Right now its wired for ws, but im gonna wire it for sequential eventually probly, although im not sure there will really be any gain from it. The COPs running dwell is so short already that wasted spark shouldnt really hurt them or their performance.
I wasn't refering to you when I asked about natesully, I have been talking to him tonight through pms on msextra though and he's given me some good ideas to try out....this afternoon. I confident that I either just have the coils wired backwards or that something in my config is backward.
Right now its wired for ws, but im gonna wire it for sequential eventually probly, although im not sure there will really be any gain from it. The COPs running dwell is so short already that wasted spark shouldnt really hurt them or their performance.
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08-13-2007, 11:38 AM
#11
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Ignore my previous post. I was barely conscious when I read this. I should know better than posting when I'm that tired.
What do you see with a timing light?
A cheap PC based oscilloscope is nice for this kind of troubleshooting and you don't have to worry about frying coils. I got one for <$100.
I haven't seen your msq yet. I'll look at it tonight.
What do you see with a timing light?
A cheap PC based oscilloscope is nice for this kind of troubleshooting and you don't have to worry about frying coils. I got one for <$100.
I haven't seen your msq yet. I'll look at it tonight.
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08-13-2007, 12:23 PM
#12
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
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hey you can use speakerworkshop as a type of oscilloscope.
http://www.audua.com/
complete with awesome huge manual:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resou...anual/SWM2.zip
It's got everything in there on how to build the input probes and get your signals and all that.
http://www.audua.com/
complete with awesome huge manual:
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resou...anual/SWM2.zip
It's got everything in there on how to build the input probes and get your signals and all that.
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08-13-2007, 12:53 PM
#13
I have a usb ocsilliscope actually. havent installed it because I dropped the class i was gonna use it in last semester. I'll go grab that.
I took out my cops and stuck the spark plugs in them. I could hear spark but couldnt see it, and it would only happen on the first couple cranks. I'm not sure if the diy mod will work with ms2 or not now.
I took out my cops and stuck the spark plugs in them. I could hear spark but couldnt see it, and it would only happen on the first couple cranks. I'm not sure if the diy mod will work with ms2 or not now.
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08-13-2007, 02:35 PM
#14
I'm about to throw this thing out the window. I'd run it over with my car, but you know what....i cant get any spark to run it!
I pulled all the plugs and tested them to see if they were all sparking and in the correct order (ms2 test mode
) At first I would get a couple sparks for like 2-3 cranks and it would stop. Now I'm getting nothing. If i stick in the stock ecu, that car still runs fine. I really need to talk with some one on AIM or something where I can hold a converstion without having to wait hours for replies.
I pulled all the plugs and tested them to see if they were all sparking and in the correct order (ms2 test mode
) At first I would get a couple sparks for like 2-3 cranks and it would stop. Now I'm getting nothing. If i stick in the stock ecu, that car still runs fine. I really need to talk with some one on AIM or something where I can hold a converstion without having to wait hours for replies.
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08-13-2007, 06:41 PM
#15
Natesully on MSEXTRA and Nathan M-ED on m.net are the same person. I know this as I personally know the guy, as in we go to college together, are in the sports car club at A&M, etc. He does have MS2extra running his miata and is very knowledgeable. He is currently in the process of having MS run EVERYTHING on the car like DIYAutotune's PNP setup, so not only A/C, but the entire emissions system like the evap canister and such.
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08-13-2007, 07:22 PM
#16
ok i got spark and the car "running". Yet again, I could not get diy's spark mod to work, this time though I did have the transistors in but it simply didnt work. So I went with just the same thing I had before.
The car starts but it is running really rough. To make matters worse, when the car starts megatune stops responding completely so I cant change anything realtime. While I am checking timing with ms set at a fixed angle of 10* the timing is very erratic, and the car runs rough. Timing jumps between 0 and some negative number. Even when changing the trigger angle up to +-15* the timing doesnt change on the pulley.
While its running though I get ~16.5 afr on the stock narrowband, so that seems about right. I'm just running diy's ve and ign tables.
The car starts but it is running really rough. To make matters worse, when the car starts megatune stops responding completely so I cant change anything realtime. While I am checking timing with ms set at a fixed angle of 10* the timing is very erratic, and the car runs rough. Timing jumps between 0 and some negative number. Even when changing the trigger angle up to +-15* the timing doesnt change on the pulley.
While its running though I get ~16.5 afr on the stock narrowband, so that seems about right. I'm just running diy's ve and ign tables.
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08-13-2007, 07:57 PM
#17
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
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brian it may not be any help, but you're one of the pioneers of the MS2 platform in a miata and it's something I'd consider valuable to see you work through the process. you know, in case some day I want to run it.
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08-13-2007, 08:13 PM
#18
Well so far the only difference is just the input mods, which worked 100% the very first time I tried to crank the motor. Its the spark mods that have een giving me the biggest headache. They did the same thing on the ms1 though too. From my reading and now experience, the crank/cam input mods are different from ms1 to ms2, but the spark mods can remain the same. Once I actually get it running I will post a nice little write up and make a good diagram of it.
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08-13-2007, 08:57 PM
#19
I'm not sure why you are having problems with DIY's directions on board mods. I installed my MS 2 weeks ago following their instructions step by step and my car runs great. From what I can tell is people might be forgetting to jumper XG1 to XG2, OPTOIN to TACHSELECT, and TSEL to OPTOOUT. Other than that their directions are spot on.
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