(Batch fire) Only cylinder 2 and 3 has spark, but not 1 and 4. How to correct?
 

New Problem
See post #15

Cylinder 2 and 3 are firing together whenever Spark B or D is selected in the output test mode

Cylinder 1 and 4 are dead silent whenever trying A and C

Continuity checks out on the COPS harness. I switched the coils around and the coils themselves all work.


So what would prohibit A and C from firing? anyone have any ideas? I don't know how to proceed with this short of testing continuity back to the ecu plugs, then beyond that...is there any other setting within Tuner Studio that I'm just missing or is this a hardware issue?






Old Problem

Hello all,
I'm seriously at a loss and don't know what to do. Braineack gave some advice to help get the fuel pump priming which is awesome, but I still have no crank signal, spark or fuel. TPS works fine, crank sensor gets voltage. I checked the continuity of my COPS harness and it seems to be fine, but nothing fires when plugs are grounded. I believe that since there is no crank signal, MS3 doesn't know when to fire or inject fuel.

I tried plugging in MSPNP1 and was able to pull a composite log of the trigger wheel, but MS3 is a complete blank.

My setup:
92 Miata
BP4W motor and sensors (Ditched CAS)
SuperMiata 36-1 trigger wheel (tooth one is ~180° from top when crank is TDC) so about 60-65° offset from crank sensor at TDC
sequential capable but tying to run batch for now
Toyota COPS
Borg Warner EFR6258 Turbo
ID1000 injectors
Innovate MTX-L Wideband O2
Using BP4W throttle body/TPS and IACV


Am I missing something? I feel like my best chance of getting this to run is reverting back to MSPNP1


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...s-ms1-fuel-jpg

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...s1-trigger-jpg

i'm pretty sure I'm using the correct 99+ crank sensor

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...120_181347-jpg

what's the composite log look like? Are you even getting the signal to the MS? It's possible the zero crossing point, tuned with r56, needs adjusting to even get the signal to read.

(you wont be able to run seq. until you mod the CAS for a single tooth and run a 36-1/1 pattern.)

Thanks for the reply.

There is no signal to the MS3. I cracked the unit open last night after reading on the forums, but couldn't find it; or i was just at the point of throwing my hands up in the air. I will try again once Leach0789 gets back home.

I was hoping to run batch just to get it out of his garage. Then I can wire in the inj/spark c and d and take a composite log of the crank and cam signals to see if a code could be generated to support the 36-1 trigger wheel and stock 99-00 cam gear. But for the time being, just batch on the trigger wheel is the goal.

R56 is on the main board, by the copyright on the bottom edge, it probably needs at least 2 more turns clockwise. You'll probably have to lift the green expander board out of the way.

Thanks, that did the trick! It still does not start though :<

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...-composite-jpg

i believed wasted cop is incorrect, fwiw, that suggests that you have 4 indivudal spark outputs, but you want to fire them like a wasted setup.

are you getting any RPMs during cranking once it syncs?

Yes it's quite low; around 200 RPM

Ok, so I must wire in spark C and D as well as injector C and D?

are your cops wired for individually for sequential, right now, or paired for wasted?

Cops are currently paired for wasted spark; I thought that Spark A and B would drive it

it will, but the spark mode needs to be "wasted", not "wasted cop".

right now it's going to fire A/C and B/D together, individually. I suppose it should still work as is once I think about it. But you should just set it to waste so you're only triggering A and B.

No change, it's not catching.

I thought I might have a bum COP harness, but continuity checks out for each connection and there's ~11.8 volts powering each coil.

Battery is dying because of cranking so much.

Is there any other way to check for spark and fuel? or to ensure the MS3 is outputting properly?

you mean something like output test mode?

Cylinder 2 and 3 are firing together whenever Spark B or D is selected in the output test mode

Cylinder 1 and 4 are dead silent whenever trying A and C

Continuity checks out on the harness. I switched the coils around and the coils themselves all work.


So what would prohibit A and C from firing?

:facepalm:

Is there any way aside from output test to see if the MS3 is working properly?

I just checked the continuity from each trigger wire on the coil plugs to Igniter terminals IG/IH and they all check out fine.

I'm not sure what else to check :(

physical issues with the MS3?

Can you check where Spark A and Spark B are going on the MS to OEM Connector harness?

I had the same issue and it took me awhile to wrap my head around it.
make sure that you wire:
Spark Inj Physical Plug
A A 1
B B 4
C C 3
D D 2

I kept wanting to call it Spark 1-4 which caused me to wire wrong...

Rev will correct me if I am wrong... (He has helped me out on this greatly)

Spark A runs to the top connector on MS3. Top row, pin 14. If viewed from behind, 6th from the left.
edit: I'll check for spark b location in a moment



firing order is 1-3-4-2 iirc

I haven't wired it sequentially yet since there is yet a code to run the stock NB cam position pulses with a 36-1 trigger wheel. Just trying to get it to run on wasted/batch spark and injection for now which should just alternate between SparkA and SparkB. The trigger for the coils are paired on the COPS harness per the 1.6L instructions

should be pin 33.

Spark B is top connector, bottom row, pin 33

Looking at it from behind, 5th from left

(Pin reference is based on the tiny stamped numbers on the megasquirt side)

edit: interpreted incorrectly

no, i was saying spark b should be pin 33--so the MS harness is correct.

All the sparks are driven off the same integrated circuit on the expander, I'd be hard pressed to think Spark A is working, yet Spark B is not.

Spark C and D are dormant if using wasted spark?

If not, and Spark A and C are firing at the same time, maybe I can switch the trigger source to run wasted/batch. But that probably means I'll never be able to run sequential.

Anything on the megasquirt itself to check whether it be software or hardware?

on a 4-cyl, yes.

IIRC it's wired:

A - 2/3
B - 1/4


You're absolutely certain in output test mode you can't get anything when testing spark b? and that spark b goes all the way from the coil trigger (yellow or yellow/brown) back to pin 33?

Both cylinder 2 and 3 fire when I test Spark B OR D in output test

Nothing happens for cylinder 1 and 4 when trying Spark A or C

Continuity is good from the coil plug all the way to the ECU pin for both Ignitor wires: Brown and Brown/yellow

okay, sorry, so it's spark a not working... hmmm.

So from what you said earlier, there shouldn't be any reason why Spark A isn't working if Spark B/D are.

So that means it would have no effect if switching to Wasted COP, activated Spark-A/C and Spark-B/D simultaneously, to try to use Spark C as the trigger instead of wiring to A?

I don't understand the logic if that would work, yet Spark A doesn't work independently if they are part of the same integrated circuit.

ಥ_ಥ

im curious as to why Spark D is doing anything...Did you wire Spark D from your center connector into your cop harness?

Spark D is run to one of the unused wires in the modified ignitor, but not actually wired to anything. I wasn't sure of why it did anything when cycling through the output, if it was set to wasted spark. It makes me wonder if this was to allow for a wasted setup to work even if the COPS are wired for sequential...without shifting or pairing wires as we do for the 1.6L

..but again, does not explain why A and C aren't working.

I feel like I'm missing something real stupid in the setup within MS. Patiently waiting for that "eureka" moment once it's all sorted...but I feel in over my head now. Swap and install only took 1 day. Figuring out how to start the car....5 days and counting.

post this over at msextra.com, cause i'm missing that moment as well.

Just set up an account but waiting for admin approval for first post. I'm really desperate to the point where I wonder what it'll take to get this running on MS1.

From reading this thread:
Megasquirt MSEXTRA / MS3EFI &bull; D14 "spark A" Not Working- Not Grounding - MS2/Extra v3.0 (View topic)

I know it's MS2, but is this something common that even new daughter boards or expansion boards are sometimes faulty?