Datalogging with a Palm...it CAN be done!
 

Got it working today. All you need is an old Palm and a null modem adapter (or make your own), and the appropriate software. All of it can be found at the msefi forum stuff. There are three programs, PalmLog, PalmTune, and PalmEdit. PalmLog is a datalogging program that you send into MegaTune via burst mode datalogging, and then look at in MLV like any old datalog. Looks pretty neat. It also has a real-time display while connected to the MS. Multiple views, seen here:
http://www.blessedmemories.net/Palm/Pics/Palm1.jpg http://www.blessedmemories.net/Palm/Pics/Palm6.jpg

PalmTune is, well, a tuning program for fuel and spark tables, and any other table you tell it. I haven't messed with this one yet, but it is configured basically the same way as PalmLog. It supposedly has some nice features in order to conveniently tune on the small screen.

PalmEdit is the program you would use to change variables. It fetches what MS is using, and you can give it a new value to burn in. Can do any variable you want, so long as you know where it is in the MS files. Most of the standard ones are built in.

All programs require a bit of configuration to use, obviously, but nothing difficult. Just set it up for your firmware version and give it the values from easytherm for the real-time displays.

Great stuff...much more convenient for random datalogging than always having a laptop in there. Not sure if I'll use the tuning stuff much, but def. the logging stuff.

Just thought some of you might be interested; seems a good way to use those old Palms I know are sitting in your desk drawer.

edit: those screen caps aren't my car, so don't look at that horribly rich AFR!

that's good news for all those driving around with a laptop in the pax seat :bigtu:

that's pretty badass...I think I have an old palm too....might be a lot easier than lugging the laptop around all the time for simple monitoring and logging.

No joke, i think i have an old palm as well. Might be a different OS though. I'll have to get on that when i get back.

It'll work with any version of Palm OS 3.5+

I'm running an old color IIIc with 4.0. Great for monitoring temps, etc. while driving around.

I was afraid of running out of RAM on the Palm (8mb), but each mb is about 2 hours of datalogging, supposedly. It can take three files, and each file can be stopped and started with the touch of a button. In fact, you can rig it up to turn on, run the program, and start/stop logging all without using the stylus. Neat.

Sweet i might have to pick up a palm then.

That is cool.
Does the palm charge off of the serial cable?

I built my null modem adapter with the fewest connections necessary (3) so it didn't have a charge wire. I've been thinking about whether it is possible to charge with the serial cable...and I'm just not sure. I don't think I can with my palm.

The MSPNP supplies 5V to the serial connector. Would be cool if it could be utilized to keep the Palm device powered. Then all we'd need is a dash mount.

If there was something that ran on Windows Mobile, I'd use it in a heartbeat on my 8125.

awesome news, i can see this becoming a great accessory down the road as I would like the ability to at least make crude tuning adjustments down the road if my laptop is not available.

It's sort of like a megaview, but many people have them already and you get a nicer screen.

X2 :cool:

Like anything else Megasquirt, give it time. Im sure someone, somewhere is working on it.

I bought two 8mb palms a couple of years ago for <$25 delivered- that'd be worth the price to do this IMO. Datalog at a moment's notice- just leave it in the glove box.

Do any of those (or other) apps allow map swapping? That'd be nice. :bigtu:

PalmTune allows swapping fuel and spark tables, I believe. None can actually load complete msq files, though.

MS can hold 2 msq's, each selectable by flipping a toggle switch.

that's so scifi :gtfo:

very interesting...

If you need a Palm for this, I recommend getting a Palm IIIxe, has 8mb of RAM, can be upgraded to PalmOS 4.0, and uses AAA batteries. I heard that IIIc's were difficult to see in daylight due to the color screen, and I didn't want to mess with charging a battery, rather just throw in some AAA's. Also, considering the age of these Palms, if they have a rechargeable battery, you can bet the battery is bad. Granted, replacements are cheap, it just adds to the cost.

do we have to use an older palm?

I might still have mine!!! 10 bucks and its yours :bigtu:

I will hold you on that if it is true.

Yes, you must use a Palm that has a real serial interface, it seems that no one can get the ones with the universal cable to work.

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=17772

Here is a list of Palm devices so you can decide on your own:

http://www.geocities.com/netbrakr/

So we cant use USB capable palms?

karter,
Do you have any idea if I can use a serial-->bluetooth adaptor on my MS to communicate with a bluetooth capable palm device?

my model is the tungsten E2 with multi connector.

got it for free from a doctor yesterday, so ill give it a try.

As long as you can link the TD signal of one device to the RD input of the other, you might get it to work. The main issue in using the palm is that both the MS and the Palm are DTE devices by default, so you need someway to get them to communicate with each other. I did this by making a null modem connector. I imagine you'd need something similar between MS and the bluetooth adapter, but then I'm not sure the bluetooth would be capable of running to a non-DTE device. Good luck.

Its true I just gotta find the SOB!

From my understanding based on wiring diagrams I have found (don't have a link, search around in the Palm part of the MSEFI forum), you must have a resistor placed across two of the points to enable the palm to enter "serial" mode. Unfortunately, it's not a true serial mode, and when people try to connect it to Megasquirt, it connects/disconnects intermittently, making it impossible to use.

Honestly though, unless you already have one of the Palms that uses a universal cable, you can try, but the older ones are so cheap, its not worth getting a slightly newer one that *may* not work. I originally thought this was a great opportunity for me to finally get a nice PDA, but obviously, my dreams were shot.

I recently bought a Palm IIIxe off eBay with a modem, keyboard, stylus, neoprene case, and hard cover for $12.50. Unless someone else chimes in, I wouldn't get the IIIc, as the screen from what I heard is near impossible to see in daylight, making it useless to tune/datalog with.

The bit about the IIIc in the daytime is true. I'm only using it because it is what I had sitting around. I put it in the dark passenger footwell, with the real-time display put on the 4-reading mode (so it's big enough to read from the driver's side), but it's not optimal. Datalogging is fine though, because I just use the up/down buttons to stop/start during runs, and don't need the stylus. Then I transfer to the computer later to check it out.

Hmm Next choice would be a Palm Vx or V with this guy and I'll get them to cross the pins for me or I'll get a null modem adaptor.

I'd rather spend a couple extra bucks and not have to deal with AAA batteries all the damn time.

I have a palm that I never thought I would use. Now I know what I can use it for!

OK, 4 months later I finally pulled the trigger :gay:
Got (coming) a Handera TRGpro, which is a variant of the Palm IIIxe. From what I can tell, it's a IIIxe with a CF slot on top. Runs on Palm OS 3.5.3, but does NOT seem like it's upgradable to OS 4 like the xe. But obviously will have dramatically more storgage and data transfer abilities with the CF slot. Will advise if it works. Or if it doesn't.

http://www.handera.com/images/trgcradle.jpg

I'll keep up on this, i have a palm laying around I might want to use for this. Might be too new a model though.

been running this stuff on the wife's old palm M130 for about 2 months. it's a pain in the ass to configure and learn where all the features are hidden, but after that it's great. I need to figure out which pin on the m130 is the charge pin and how much voltage it puts out so I can charge while in use.

The onboard 8MB has been more than enough for hours and hours of datalogging on my IIIc.

I really need to try and use my Handspring Visor.....

hmm, i might have to jump on this bandwagon, too... getting sick of toting around the ancient laptop and power inverter...

anyone figure out the charging via serial?

Just got a palm from ebay for 20 shipped, now I just need to get off my ass and wire up my MS :gay:

It's also part of the lazy factor: I can just move the card between computer and palm. Anyway, thought it was cool, and it was only $23 delivered.

If it works please let us know.

PalmLog is running on my TRGPro. Ben, would you mind sharing the PalmLog Environment Setup for the MSPNP? Thx

Sure thing. I'll post up when I'm home tonight and can grab the palm.

I did a little research on the Visor, looks like it has the multi connector, and it talks TTL, not RS-232 so it is probably a no-go. too bad, I love those.

Well crap... looks like i have to buy an old palm then.

as long as you have it, please try it. The Serial cradle bumps the TTL signal up to RS-232, so it *may* work using that. If you dont want to bother, you can send it to me and I'll play with it on the MSPNP :)

EDIT:

Nevermind, Looks like one guy on MSEFI got it to work, he had to yank out the TTL signals from the CPU before it went to the RS232 chip.

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=16019

EDIT Again:

After further research, I'm pretty sure this is everything you'd need for the Visor through the MS serial port:

RS-232 Visor Specific Serial cable (or hack a cradle). These have built in chip for TTL/RS232 conversion. This chip needs 5V to operate it, you need a way to power it.

Null modem adapter or swap pins.

I will probably look for a pIIIxe, but something about rocking an old-school VisorPhone appeals to the geek in me.

Here is my PalmLog Environment Setup, as requested. It works for me on my MSPNP MM9093, but I cannot guarantee the values. In fact, I can't remember how I got all of them. I did a bit of reading on the msefi forum.

MAP-Off: 9.0
Map-Sc: 0.984
C-Bias: 2490
A-Bias: 2490
Cool-A: 1.222E-3
Cool-B: 2.776E-4
Cool-C: 4.196E-8
Air-A: 1.506E-3
Air-B: 2.250E-4
Air-C: 1.247E-7
WB-Off: 10.00
WB-Sc: 2.00
RTU Char: R
Bytes 39

I have my "boost in psi," "Fahr," and "diywb" boxes clicked; I am using the Techedge diywb.

Wow, thanks, I'm glad I asked you for yours. My values were different. I used the therm and mat factor values from the config file that was WITH AFM, not the values from the WITHOUT AFM file. Confused me for a minute, but I'm glad I was able to see your values and catch my error. :bigtu:

Still working on the MAP scaling... I think I have it nailed. Haven't built the null modem adaptor yet to check it though.

I think my values will be the same as yours, except for the MAP sensor calibration:
MAP-Off: 20
Map-Sc: 1.490
Not 100% on those values yet though.

So I made a null modem adaptor out of a pair of DB9 ends I had. And guess what. Without looking, I made a M-->F adaptor, like what every other device gets... And this piece of crap needs a M-->M adaptor. :td: I don't have any more male DB9 terminals.

Bum deal. Radioshit has more DB9 terminals if you need them.

just waiting on traffic to die down. :)

:rofl:

btw: Have you looked at how the palm transfers a datalog to the computer? The data is sent via batch mode to MLV while essentially "synchronizing" the palm via PalmLog. I'm not so sure you'll be able to just pop the CF card out of the palm and read the datalog file from the computer. You'll have to figure out a way to translate the raw palm file to datalog file on the computer (replacing the palmlog synch. built-in translation).

woot. I just picked up a IIIxe off ebay for $6.00. Cant wait to give it a shot.

Started doing this myself recently. Freaking loving it.

However, I'm unsure on the AFR readings at the moment. For the LC-1 what would the WB-Off, WB-Sc settings (or any other settings) be for its default setup? Right now I just have "Other WB" selected with WB-Off: 10.00, WB-Sc: 2.00. The readings seem close they seem but perhaps a little rich.

Any ideas?

Fun... have a winning bid on a lot of 3 palm m105s... with docs and nother junk... and I find out that palmlog isn't written to support the USB mod to MS.

Blah.

Nevermind on my question, got it. Found it in the MSEfi forums.

WB Offset goes from 10 to 7.35
WB Scale goes from 2 to 3.01
(for the LC-1 Analog 2 default set up of 0v = 7.35AFR, 5v = 22.39)

mmm... is that how you have yours set? I'd configure it for 10:1 5V - 20:1 0V
and get more useful resolution out of it.

Hmmm, really... I suppose that'd be true, since I'm not running that rich, or that lean.

I may just do that this evening.

And do you mean 10:1 0V - 20:1 5V? Or am I just not understanding that right?

yeah 5V @ 20:1, sorry, my mind was somewhere else when I was finishing hte message... because when I was reading your post, I realized the solution to my map sensor scale problem. :)