Don't do what Joe P does.
Just a quick bit of advice. If you cut the wire carrying the secondary cam signal to the MS, it won't start no matter how much you try. It will, however, show an RPM indication in Megatune while cranking, leading you to spend several hours looking in places where the problem isn't.
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JoeP needs to use TunerStudio's composite logger when diagnosing such a problem. Composite logger often prevents these "duh" moments.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 600215)
Just a quick bit of advice. If you cut the wire carrying the secondary cam signal to the MS, it won't start no matter how much you try. It will, however, show an RPM indication in Megatune while cranking, leading you to spend several hours looking in places where the problem isn't.
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Joe P normally does use TunerStudio, however after re-installing the OS on his laptop he's been getting the damn bluescreen when he runs TS despite applying the "fixed" serial cable driver.
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Dont try to idle your car with diode D8 still in place... you'll have fun when the zener clamps to ground.
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So dont install D8 as per megamanual instructions for PWM idle?
But it is shown here..... http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/MS2_a |
The instructions for the idle mod tell you what you wanna do for that... like jumping R39 and what have you.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 600284)
Dont try to idle your car with diode D8 still in place... you'll have fun when the zener clamps to ground.
Speaking of unnecessary parts, am I the only one who thinks that the whole injector overcurrent circuit is a waste of heatsink space? (I'm referring here to R37/38 and Q14/15). I mean, if you've somehow managed to short across one of your injectors, you've probably also crushed enough other wires that the resulting fire is going to make it irrelevant whether Q1/Q5 blew up or not. It just kills me that the designers of the 3.x schematic spent so much time and boardspace on all this shit like protection circuits, high-current coil driver, etc., but didn't bother allocating artwork for, oh, ignition drivers, relay drivers, a second trigger, a PWM idle controller, you know- all that little shit that modern engines need to run. The 3.0 board really could have been what the MS3X is striving to be. [/rant] |
acutally it never "failed". What it did do was clamp to ground so my idle would stick at 3K unless I shut off the car and it started within the range of 37-60% IAC PWM. Anything above or below that would make it clamp to ground. it eventually failed and I couldn't idle below 3K, so i took a needle nose to it and spit it in half before my drive home and all was swell again. but it never exploded or nuttin.
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I re-thought the routing of the mods a bit on this last one, and I think it turned out really well, probably the cleanest one I've done in terms of loose wires running everywhere. This is with the standard DIY crank and cam inputs, the JoeSpark drivers, relay driver for fan, EBC and PWM IAC, with internal diode protection on fan, IAC and EBC:
http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/8...gm_0966ff8.jpg http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/8...hm_2e12368.jpg Depopulating the VR section opens up a lot of useful holes. |
Joe did a heck of a job. very pretty.
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Originally Posted by skyline397
(Post 600574)
Joe did a heck of a job. very pretty.
Assuming you've been running VEA Live, I'd say that after tomorrow you can probably slow down the EGO reaction time to maybe 40 cycles (I think we left it at 20) which will allow the map to fine-tune a bit more gently. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 600337)
Speaking of unnecessary parts, am I the only one who thinks that the whole injector overcurrent circuit is a waste of heatsink space?
It was a pain in the ass taking all that stuff out but like you said it did free up space on the heat sink. I opted to go this route in case I decide to run an EBC. Now I have a place to put an EBC transistor or direct coil drivers. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 600610)
The big question is... how's it working for you?
Assuming you've been running VEA Live, I'd say that after tomorrow you can probably slow down the EGO reaction time to maybe 40 cycles (I think we left it at 20) which will allow the map to fine-tune a bit more gently. |
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Originally Posted by lordrigamus
(Post 600637)
Not since I put the JBPerf P&H driver board in. The injector drivers, flyback circuit and related components had to be removed anyway. Actually the only ones that absolutely had to come out were the ones directly connected to U4 but it was recommended that the other components be removed as well.
which are: D3, D21, C13, C14, D17, D18, R15, R20. and everything you don't need: D3, D5, D6, D7, D17, D18, D20, D21, C13, C14, Q1, Q3, Q5, Q9, Q10, Q11, Q12, Q13, Q14, Q15, R15, R18, R20, R30, R31, R32, R33, R34, R35, R36, R37, R38 There's like 1/4 of the board populated when you do the P&H board. ctdriftna, is running one on the one I built for him. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 600675)
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it ain't going no where. I've had one like on my MS-I for over 4 years.
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I really like the all-black wiring. It makes everything so easy to diagnose...
...not. |
doesn't bother me.
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Imagining over the phone debugging. Must be tons of fun.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 600724)
it ain't going no where. I've had one like on my MS-I for over 4 years.
and yeah, colored wires. |
That's not a zener, it looks like a 1N4001 to me.
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The one I left installed isn't pictured.
Basically when I first installed MS3, I was having a horrible problem with misses and erratic idle. Turns out my timing belt was too loose and since MS3 is faster and more accurate with timing, it was causing shit to be out of sync and missing. It was fine with MS-I and MS-II. Before I realized this, I thought the extra board I built the MS3 around might have some issue. So I modded my old MS-I box, that wasn't running idle mod, for the MS3. When I moved the TIP120 over, I forgot to pull d8. |
Originally Posted by skyline397
(Post 600642)
i went over ahead of myself and went to boost of like 1psi, later the coolant temp shot up a lil bit but went back down when i slowed down. Is that a sign of denotation?
Idle dip down to 600rpm when i put car in neutral when slowing down then went back up to normal around 900rpm later, do i have to adjust the acel/decel setting for that?
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 600749)
is that not your nasty zener? i must be looking at the wrong die-ode.
http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/8...jm_7a5d489.jpg The diagnonal one is going from the TIP120 that he installed as part of the IAC mod to S12, which says to me that it's a flyback diode. Scott- I don't see any relay drivers on that board, yet you've done the idle mod. Standalone or not? |
I don't have a shot of my current board in it's current state. but yes I'm fully standalone on MS-III and have no complaints...just still finding new features daily.
for example: the 4x4 idle VE table is awesome. I have my rpm/load at: 750,875,950,1000 & 32, 36, 43, 47 kPa. Able to keep afrs within a .5 point spread at idle with ease. overrun has a "return fuel when X rpm" setting, default it was at 1100RPM, which was just too late to kick the injectors back on...finding that one made idle recovery significantly better. yesterday I had to run: a/c, headlights, wipers, and my subwoofer. Noticed AFRs went hella rich at idle. Was able to adjust my injector dead time correction % curve since the voltage in that situation dropped from 13.8v to 11.8v...so I had to reduce the default curve a little. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 600677)
which are: D3, D21, C13, C14, D17, D18, R15, R20.
and everything you don't need: D3, D5, D6, D7, D17, D18, D20, D21, C13, C14, Q1, Q3, Q5, Q9, Q10, Q11, Q12, Q13, Q14, Q15, R15, R18, R20, R30, R31, R32, R33, R34, R35, R36, R37, R38 There's like 1/4 of the board populated when you do the P&H board. ctdriftna, is running one on the one I built for him. It looks kind of wierd without all the circuits in there but look at all the space on that heat sink. Hubba hubba! Sorry about the shitty close up. Bad Riggy! Hopefully the sexy bootloader micro switch will make up for it!:giggle: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1413/im000594f.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1163/im000597.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
Not bringing those drivers out to a separate ground line makes baby Jesus cry.
Looks nice, though. It really is amazing how little it takes to make an engine run. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 600937)
Not bringing those drivers out to a separate ground line makes baby Jesus cry.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 600937)
Looks nice, though. It really is amazing how little it takes to make an engine run.
I still can't believe that it runs on it either. At the same time, I can remember a time when it needed way less than that. However, user interaction was severely limited and we were at the mercy of how well the mechanical parts behaved especially after they had aged a bit. If I had a choice, I think I would stick with the latter version anyway. No sense in going backward at this point. On that note, press on and sally forth all! |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 600815)
I don't have a shot of my current board in it's current state. but yes I'm fully standalone on MS-III and have no complaints...just still finding new features daily.
for example: the 4x4 idle VE table is awesome. I have my rpm/load at: 750,875,950,1000 & 32, 36, 43, 47 kPa. Able to keep afrs within a .5 point spread at idle with ease. overrun has a "return fuel when X rpm" setting, default it was at 1100RPM, which was just too late to kick the injectors back on...finding that one made idle recovery significantly better. yesterday I had to run: a/c, headlights, wipers, and my subwoofer. Noticed AFRs went hella rich at idle. Was able to adjust my injector dead time correction % curve since the voltage in that situation dropped from 13.8v to 11.8v...so I had to reduce the default curve a little. Seriously though the Idle VE table is a big want for me |
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Putting an MS3 on a Rev 3 board makes baby Jesus cry. Looks like an elephant fucking an octopus...
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There's no difference in mods between MS-II and MS-III. just swap daugtherboards. But I have added an a/c input/output (spare 2&3), Fan control (spare 1), High side driver to run fuel pump (Spare 4). Then I have the opto circuit for my second trigger. And the typical Idle, boost, baro.
I didn't make this pretty cause it was my Ms-I board that I didn't want to mod to MS-II/III but I was trying to track down and issue and decided to try the other mainboard. It sure runs well...so who cares. it'll look worse when i add the ms3x board and run full sequential. |
There's just no sense keeping the 3.0 / 3.57 design alive any longer. Pretty much every single circuit on it has been obsoleted and replaced with a mod or a daughterboard. The only active part left on it at this point is the power supply regulator.
And yet we keep on using them. Reminds me of the PC market eons ago, when you could buy, for instance, a little daughterboard that would allow you to plug a 486-SX processor into a motherboard designed for a 386-DX. Or ISA cards to add ATAPI controllers to machines that weren't born with them. Or expansion boards to hold more RAM chips (yes, chips) in addition to what the motherboard was socketed for. Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot. Hell, expanding the RAM on the Amiga 1000 (from 512k to 1 meg) and upgrading to the FatAgnus controller involved a soldering iron and an X-acto knife. I think I still have the instructions for that mod (printed on greenbar tractor-fed fanfold paper) somewhere in a box, complete with ASCII-art illustrations. Remember when shit like that was considered normal? Nowadays, we just chuck the motherboard (or the whole computer) and buy one that's actually correct for the application. I'm slightly bitter and opinionated about this, in case you can't tell. Building a Megasquirt for a "normal" car (one with crank and cam triggers, fully sequential injectors and ignition, ECU-controlled fans, a PWM idle valve, variable geometry intake, variable cam timing, etc) should require precisely zero jumpers run across the back of the board, zero transistors in the proto area, zero daughterboards, etc. |
working with what i got. $50 spare mainboard + $190 CPU :)
I like the diypnp myself, i think theyll have a ms3 version soon. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 603807)
Reminds me of the PC market eons ago, when you could buy, for instance, a little daughterboard that would allow you to plug a 486-SX processor into a motherboard designed for a 386-DX. Or ISA cards to add ATAPI controllers to machines that weren't born with them. Or expansion boards to hold more RAM chips (yes, chips) in addition to what the motherboard was socketed for. Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot.
Hell, expanding the RAM on the Amiga 1000 (from 512k to 1 meg) and upgrading to the FatAgnus controller involved a soldering iron and an X-acto knife. I think I still have the instructions for that mod (printed on greenbar tractor-fed fanfold paper) somewhere in a box, complete with ASCII-art illustrations. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 603807)
Or sidecar modules (now I'm really dating myself) for machines like the PCjr or the TI-99/4A, to add printer ports and whatnot.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 603807)
There's just no sense keeping the 3.0 / 3.57 design alive any longer. Pretty much every single circuit on it has been obsoleted and replaced with a mod or a daughterboard. The only active part left on it at this point is the power supply regulator.
Still, I don't see the V3.0 and V3.57 going away anytime soon. Generally, MegaSquirt products may get updates (like the jump from V1.01 to V2.2, or the DIYPNP V1.1 to V1.5 jump) but if people still buy them, we'll keep making them. |
I just want in on what the "x-connect" is going to be used for!
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 604049)
I just want in on what the "x-connect" is going to be used for!
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Originally Posted by JayL
(Post 603918)
Now I really feel old.
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it's been a while since i browsed this forum.
this thread makes me feel like i have absolutely no idea what i'm doing. keep it up guys. |
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