DW700 install tuning help
05-02-2018, 02:34 PM
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DW700 install tuning help
I installed some DW700 injectors and followed their tuner sheet to put the REQ FUEL and PW in megasquirt. It starts then dies after ASE turns off. Those are the only values I changed and I'm not sure what's going on. It started great before the install. Please see my attached files.
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-02-2018 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Added attachments
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05-02-2018, 02:54 PM
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I'm not able to look at the logs right now. But, have you tried playing around with the fuel map? Even though the injectors can be scaled for the new flow, they're not going to behave exactly the same. New injectors often need tweaking beyond just REQ Fuel. Dead times should also be updated. If it's clearing leaning out and dying, try adding fuel in that area of the VE map.
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05-02-2018, 03:03 PM
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I'm not able to look at the logs right now. But, have you tried playing around with the fuel map? Even though the injectors can be scaled for the new flow, they're not going to behave exactly the same. New injectors often need tweaking beyond just REQ Fuel. Dead times should also be updated. If it's clearing leaning out and dying, try adding fuel in that area of the VE map.
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05-02-2018, 03:25 PM
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I'm not able to look at the logs right now. But, have you tried playing around with the fuel map? Even though the injectors can be scaled for the new flow, they're not going to behave exactly the same. New injectors often need tweaking beyond just REQ Fuel. Dead times should also be updated. If it's clearing leaning out and dying, try adding fuel in that area of the VE map.
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05-02-2018, 08:13 PM
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It is partially working right now. It now oscillates for 5 or so seconds and then stabilizes at ~1000rpm and at ~14.7 afr. Does anyone know why this could be?
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-02-2018 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Added attachments
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05-03-2018, 10:30 AM
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Now I feel like a complete idiot... I have had my 5v and signal wires crossed on my Wells 201 tps for several months I guess. I swapped then over and now it's running darn near perfectly. BTW the fix for my Deatchwerks 700cc Injectors was to set the dead time to 1.4. For some reason tunerstudio constantly shows Knock in red the entire time the car is on. That doesn't seem normal.
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-03-2018 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Added attachments
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05-03-2018, 10:46 AM
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So changing your dead time to 1.4 really just adds .4ms to your PW across the board. Most new injectors are closer to a 1.0 dead time, and you'll have a better tune if you change your fuel table instead of your dead time.
If you were running 16.7 at idle instead of 14.7, try multiplying your entire original fuel table by (16.7/14.7), while also going back to the advertised dead time.
If you were running 16.7 at idle instead of 14.7, try multiplying your entire original fuel table by (16.7/14.7), while also going back to the advertised dead time.
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05-03-2018, 10:51 AM
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So changing your dead time to 1.4 really just adds .4ms to your PW across the board. Most new injectors are closer to a 1.0 dead time, and you'll have a better tune if you change your fuel table instead of your dead time.
If you were running 16.7 at idle instead of 14.7, try multiplying your entire original fuel table by (16.7/14.7), while also going back to the advertised dead time.
If you were running 16.7 at idle instead of 14.7, try multiplying your entire original fuel table by (16.7/14.7), while also going back to the advertised dead time.
I changed my dead time as advertised. Now I am getting weird Afr number but after a bit it stabilizes at 14.7. When I had my previous with a 1.4 dead time it was almost instantly 14.7. Looking at the megalog viewer, there seems to be a correlation between my afr and ego cor1. By the time my ego gets from 100% initially to 120% my idle is back at 14.7. Do I still not have enough fuel on the table?
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-03-2018 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Attachments
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05-03-2018, 12:09 PM
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Ego correction definitely a factor. It was at 119% at the end and stable. I increased ve table by 19% and it get to 14.7 way faster. Now I need to dial down after start enrichment. Right now it starts with 12.5 and after ~5 secondsit is at 14.7. Does that seem to be pretty good?
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-03-2018 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Added attachments
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05-03-2018, 01:15 PM
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Sounds like you’re relying on ego too much. Turn it off, should idle at 12.5 cold and after ASE is off. Then WUE should taper it to 14.7 roughly when the thermostat opens. Then tune your fuel table, then make sure WUE still works with the new fuel table, then work on ASE, then turn on EGO.
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05-03-2018, 01:26 PM
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Sounds like you’re relying on ego too much. Turn it off, should idle at 12.5 cold and after ASE is off. Then WUE should taper it to 14.7 roughly when the thermostat opens. Then tune your fuel table, then make sure WUE still works with the new fuel table, then work on ASE, then turn on EGO.
BTW that last log was a startup at 140° F so that could be a factor.
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-03-2018 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Coolant temp
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05-03-2018, 03:53 PM
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Full disclosure: haven't been looking at your logs. But sounds like your fuel table is much better now. And yes I'd still turn it off or at least make sure it stays off below warm temps.
If your thermostat opens at 160, you need a new thermostat. Even 180 is low. Thats besides the point though. I consider "warm" to be whatever temperature your thermostat opens + 10ish degrees. But yes, WUE should make your fully tuned fuel table idle the car at 12.5 at anything colder than ~100* coolant, and taper up to 14.7. If the car is cold and just starting (WUE plus ASE) I'd expect a second or two of 10.9-11s.
These are all super rough numbers. You car might like a 14.0 idle and 12.8 warmup afr, I dunno. But the above is the general concept of WUE and ASE.
If your thermostat opens at 160, you need a new thermostat. Even 180 is low. Thats besides the point though. I consider "warm" to be whatever temperature your thermostat opens + 10ish degrees. But yes, WUE should make your fully tuned fuel table idle the car at 12.5 at anything colder than ~100* coolant, and taper up to 14.7. If the car is cold and just starting (WUE plus ASE) I'd expect a second or two of 10.9-11s.
These are all super rough numbers. You car might like a 14.0 idle and 12.8 warmup afr, I dunno. But the above is the general concept of WUE and ASE.
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05-03-2018, 04:07 PM
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Full disclosure: haven't been looking at your logs. But sounds like your fuel table is much better now. And yes I'd still turn it off or at least make sure it stays off below warm temps.
If your thermostat opens at 160, you need a new thermostat. Even 180 is low. Thats besides the point though. I consider "warm" to be whatever temperature your thermostat opens + 10ish degrees. But yes, WUE should make your fully tuned fuel table idle the car at 12.5 at anything colder than ~100* coolant, and taper up to 14.7. If the car is cold and just starting (WUE plus ASE) I'd expect a second or two of 10.9-11s.
These are all super rough numbers. You car might like a 14.0 idle and 12.8 warmup afr, I dunno. But the above is the general concept of WUE and ASE.
If your thermostat opens at 160, you need a new thermostat. Even 180 is low. Thats besides the point though. I consider "warm" to be whatever temperature your thermostat opens + 10ish degrees. But yes, WUE should make your fully tuned fuel table idle the car at 12.5 at anything colder than ~100* coolant, and taper up to 14.7. If the car is cold and just starting (WUE plus ASE) I'd expect a second or two of 10.9-11s.
These are all super rough numbers. You car might like a 14.0 idle and 12.8 warmup afr, I dunno. But the above is the general concept of WUE and ASE.
I only said 160° because that's when I am able to start to use VEAL as one of my parameters. Should I have EGO off all the time under 160° (again because that's when I can auto tune) or just for initial tuning? Another thing because you haven't been looking at the logs, I was looking at hustlers dyno tuning page where he talks about having his ve table idle values close to 30. Mine are around 80 right now to get my fueling proper. Should I adjust REQ Fuel and go for lower number or does that really matter? It sounded like there was a max value or something and I wouldn't want to hit that wall later on. Also if you are thinking 180 is low, is 190 not a normal full operating temperature? That's what my car stays at unless it's a super hot day. Thanks for all this valuable information.
Last edited by 1.6turbokid; 05-03-2018 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Added attachments
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05-03-2018, 04:17 PM
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You will want EGO off for all of your tuning. Until you feel that the car runs really well in pure open loop, EGO should be off. Once you've dialed in your VE table and enrichments (including accel enrich, which may need retuned with new injectors), then you can turn EGO on. Target AFR will not be affected by coolant temp, which is why you want EGO off until WUE is off (if you want an AFR of 12.8 at 60 degrees, but your target AFR is 14.7, EGO is going to be doing bad stuff).
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05-03-2018, 04:25 PM
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You will want EGO off for all of your tuning. Until you feel that the car runs really well in pure open loop, EGO should be off. Once you've dialed in your VE table and enrichments (including accel enrich, which may need retuned with new injectors), then you can turn EGO on. Target AFR will not be affected by coolant temp, which is why you want EGO off until WUE is off (if you want an AFR of 12.8 at 60 degrees, but your target AFR is 14.7, EGO is going to be doing bad stuff).
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05-03-2018, 05:11 PM
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EGO and VEAL are completely separate. You need an EGO sensor (ie: wideband) for VEAL but the functions of EGO (closed loop fuel correction) are separate. I think that VEAL takes EGO into consideration when it's updating the VE table, but I'm not sure. I just always turn it off. It should definitely be off for all enrichment tuning. EGO will mask issues, and should be only used as the icing on the cake of a good tune, not to cover up a bad tune.
In the WUE portion of VEAL, I believe that there is that AFR temp target (I don't have the full TS on the computer I'm on right now) but I believe that table is only used for VEAL. I believe when you're done tuning, the AFR target is only taken from the AFR target table (independent of temperature). Which in that case, you would want EGO off during warm up.
In the WUE portion of VEAL, I believe that there is that AFR temp target (I don't have the full TS on the computer I'm on right now) but I believe that table is only used for VEAL. I believe when you're done tuning, the AFR target is only taken from the AFR target table (independent of temperature). Which in that case, you would want EGO off during warm up.
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05-03-2018, 05:58 PM
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EGO and VEAL are completely separate. You need an EGO sensor (ie: wideband) for VEAL but the functions of EGO (closed loop fuel correction) are separate. I think that VEAL takes EGO into consideration when it's updating the VE table, but I'm not sure. I just always turn it off. It should definitely be off for all enrichment tuning. EGO will mask issues, and should be only used as the icing on the cake of a good tune, not to cover up a bad tune.
In the WUE portion of VEAL, I believe that there is that AFR temp target (I don't have the full TS on the computer I'm on right now) but I believe that table is only used for VEAL. I believe when you're done tuning, the AFR target is only taken from the AFR target table (independent of temperature). Which in that case, you would want EGO off during warm up.
In the WUE portion of VEAL, I believe that there is that AFR temp target (I don't have the full TS on the computer I'm on right now) but I believe that table is only used for VEAL. I believe when you're done tuning, the AFR target is only taken from the AFR target table (independent of temperature). Which in that case, you would want EGO off during warm up.
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05-03-2018, 06:39 PM
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Fuel doesn't atomize well at cooler temperatures, hence the need for richer mixtures when cool. I'd still shoot for 12.5-13 at 100 degrees, rather than 13.7. Might make no difference though.
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05-05-2018, 06:03 PM
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I think I got that part situated. Now I'm coming across an issue where I'm cruising trying to maintain rpm and it will decel randomly. I turned up my tps dot but that didn't help.
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