E85 Tune Request - Startup and Pre-Dyno - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-15-2015, 02:56 PM   #1
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Default E85 Tune Request - Startup and Pre-Dyno

So I realized that my Basic MS3 from Reverant is tuned for pump gas. However, my fuel setup is really meant for E85. Reverant doesn't have access to E85, so he can't send me an E85 tune. The plan was to use the preloaded startup tune to make sure everything is running once the swap was done. Then depending on how the car was running we were going to limp it across town or trailer it over to the dyno to get a full tune on it. However, I don't want to show up with pump gas in the tank. I would like to show up with E85 in the tank and not waste any time dealing with the swap from Pump to E85. I plan to start this setup off on a dyno tune, and any changes down the road I will tune myself. So I was wondering if anyone happened to have something close to what I may need for a startup tune prior to running it over to the dyno.


My setup.... (which Reverant already had preloaded for gas)

Engine
Built 1.6
8.5:1 +1mm forged pistons/ rods, head + main studs.
The head is ported, gasket matched, some combustion chamber shaping.
A/C Deleted
P/S Deleted
US Spec Engine
No COPs at the moment

Turbo N Friends
T3/T4 57 trim .48 hot side, .60 cold side.
38mm wastegate
FMIC - 20"x9"x2.5" core.
GM IAT installed on the cold side of the Intercooler end tank
GrimmSpeed Manual Boost Controller

Fuel
1000cc high independance DW injectors
DW300

ECU
Basic MS3 w/ 29psi MAP Sensor

Other
AEM UEGO Wideband
MazdaSpeed 6-Speed
3.63 final drive


I believe the current tune preloaded on the MS3 Basic is setup for 91/92 pump gas.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:05 PM   #2
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Add 40% to your gas VE table and get on with life.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:20 PM   #3
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Add 40% to your gas VE table
Really? Somehow I feel that it should be more involved than just adding 40% to a untuned fuel table. That will get it started and fired. Am I better off just allowing this change to make sure it runs vs trying to drive it across town to the dyno?

I say untuned because it is just running the rev startup map. Maybe I am overthinking this.

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and get on with life.
I refuse.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:23 PM   #4
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What answer were you expecting, i guess is the question we should be asking you at this point?
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:37 PM   #5
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I don't know. I am green when it comes to tuning. It just seemed that there was more to it when we were running pump gas to E85 tunes on my subie. However, I guess that was a full street tune vs a startup tune. I wasn't sure if there was more than just fuel that I had to adjust for E85. As well if there were any setting in tuner studio that would help with the quality of the startup. Or other tuner studio settings / readings I should be paying attention to.

Maybe it was just the "get on with life" that made me question the helpfulness of the post. Just asking questions because I don't know. Not trying to be a dick, just making sure that is all I really need.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:45 PM   #6
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You may very well have to do other adjustments at some point, but in theory, to get to the point where you can dyno tune, just add 40% fuel.

Then get on with life.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:53 PM   #7
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Then get on with life.
Fantastic. But I still refuse.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:54 PM   #8
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Live life, and enjoy it?
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Live life, and enjoy it?
Ok, I can do that.

It will be a lot easier when my car is back on the road again as well. I only got a few hours behind the wheel since September of last year.

Thanks for the help.

Now to shop for tuner studio and a laptop.
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
Now to shop for tuner studio and a laptop.
https://www.miataturbo.net/stuff-sal...o-slave-83102/

I have yet to regret my purchase from EO2K

Installed a new SSD Drive, Win7 Pro, 8GB of ram & a 9cell battery. Mega efficient. Can browse the web, watch videos etc for up to 4-6 Hours.

Well worth the money. Solid laptop.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:11 PM   #11
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I street tuned the car on 93 octane. When I switched to E85 I added 30% fuel and 5 degrees of timing and the car was very driveable right away but ran a little lean. Ben's method should certainly work and err on the safe side.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:19 PM   #12
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Awesome, thank you for the feedback. Yeah, whatever I do is just a temp thing. I want to start off with a soild dyno tune and go from there
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:24 PM   #13
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It's basically as Ben says. I think when I did my conversion, I added about 20% and turned the base pressure from 43psi to 60psi. First dyno pull was almost spot on.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:44 AM   #14
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**** you OP.

Shut up, add 30 or 40% and stop posting until you have a question that hasnt been answered for you.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:16 PM   #15
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So I am just double checking everything before I startup the car this weekend. I wanted to make sure I am not missing anything and have a few questions.

1. I wan't 100% clear on the instructions but watching videos and reading MT.net I belive I do need to calibrate my throttle on a 91'... correct? My guide says "Calibrate your TPS (if you have a variable TPS)" which threw me off. I do not have a variable TPS. However, my gut feeling is that I still need to calibrate my TPS. Am I wrong since I don't have a variable TPS?

2. Timing - I understand that I have to set my timing. I noticed in some documentation on MT.net that they suggest setting it to 10 degrees. Should I actually use the value that I have with the timing light and adjust from there? I am guessing 10 is a general setup for non-built engines. It seems that setting the timing to what the light says in the More Ignition Options menu would be the best option as I know I am not set at 10 right now. Or am I missing something about using 10 as a startup value?
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:26 PM   #16
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With a VTPS you open tunerstudio with the car in the "on" position, not running. Go to calibrate sensors, click "get current" for zero throttle, push the gas all the way down and click "get current" again. Doesn't sound like you need to do anything without a variable throttle, but I'm sure you could go in there and see what it does.

In spark settings you have an option to "use table" or "set to 10 degrees". To set your timing you want to click "set to 10 degrees", then use a timing light and cam sensor to adjust your timing until it is at 10 degrees. At that point I always swap it back to "use table" and you can open your spark table and see what it's set to at that RPM and KPA (should be somewhere 10-15 I think at idle) and you can go check your timing again to make sure your timing light shows the same thing as the table shows.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
With a VTPS you open tunerstudio with the car in the "on" position, not running. Go to calibrate sensors, click "get current" for zero throttle, push the gas all the way down and click "get current" again. Doesn't sound like you need to do anything without a variable throttle, but I'm sure you could go in there and see what it does.
Good call. I can always just test it out.

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Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
In spark settings you have an option to "use table" or "set to 10 degrees". To set your timing you want to click "set to 10 degrees", then use a timing light and cam sensor to adjust your timing until it is at 10 degrees. At that point I always swap it back to "use table" and you can open your spark table and see what it's set to at that RPM and KPA (should be somewhere 10-15 I think at idle) and you can go check your timing again to make sure your timing light shows the same thing as the table shows.
Yeah I saw the guide via my google search and read the thread on MT.net. I guess my question was more about the value of 10. I know for a fact that my timing is not set at 10 right now. It is higher. Wouldn't it make sense to set the fixed value to what I have my motor set to, then test it with the wizard?

This is the thread - https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-timing-50030/
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
Yeah I saw the guide via my google search and read the thread on MT.net. I guess my question was more about the value of 10. I know for a fact that my timing is not set at 10 right now. It is higher. Wouldn't it make sense to set the fixed value to what I have my motor set to, then test it with the wizard?

This is the thread - https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-timing-50030/
You want to set the fixed timing to 10 because that is how the megasquirt is determining what to set timing to when it uses the table. If you set timing to say 15 or 16 because that is what your table says for idle then the megasquirt will actually set the timing to 20 or 21 degrees when you use the table settings because it is adjusting on the assumption base timing is set to 10 degrees.

EDIT: To clarify, when you lock timing to ten and then use a timing light you are setting mechanical timing to ensure that the car is showing the timing the megasquirt is reading. Once you switch back to using the table settings the megasquirt can adjust the actual timing to whatever you want.
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:10 PM   #19
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If you want a pretty decent general walk through, we just helped Mlev with some pointers in his thread (you actually posted in it IIRC)
That's about as good as it's gonna get for you, becuase there is no "e85 map". You just tune your car as needed.

Also it's just as easy, actually I'd say easier, to switch a subaru to e85, assuming same injectors/etc. It takes like 2 minutes lol

Good luck tuning those piece of crap injectors. EV14 is where it's at.
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:10 PM   #20
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Perfect! Thank you

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Good luck tuning those piece of crap injectors.
Yeah, they came with the package. So I wasn't about to spend money on ID1000's when the DW1000's came with everything else. We will see how it plays out.
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