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Few more questions now that my car is running on MS
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Ok so I finally got my ms3x mostly figured out. I am still having a bit of a problem with full throttle above 4000 rpm. Its like the car just falls on its face if I go full throttle anywhere above 4K rpm's. Any ideas? Log/ current tune attached
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Log upload keeps failing ... Maybe it's too big?
Edit* - I will take a few short logs of the problem happening on lunch time today and post when I have them. I also just tried adding a little fuel to the entire VE and I will try to run veal and see if that changes anything... Can't drive it yet though because im the only one in the office right now and can't leave yet lol |
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Ok think I got it all now.
It seems like its almost a rev limiter... It only happens at 100% throttle, at/ over 4000 RPM's 95% throttle acts completely normal. I dont even think the extra 5% throttle even matters for the way the car runs... but I still don't want it to happen. |
Are you boosted yet? Can't tell if you are from your sig.
Check your overboost protection, sounds like you're hitting it. |
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1121412)
Are you boosted yet? Can't tell if you are from your sig.
Check your overboost protection, sounds like you're hitting it. |
I don't think there's an on/off for it, just whether or not it's set too low. I doubt it's your problem, but I would at least make sure it's set to a few psi/over 100kPa.
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log the event and the event only.
go recreate it. then press space bar after it happens. that will pinpoint when it happens, then we can look at the logs and see if the MS is actually doing something to cause the issue. once thing i do notice is how lean you're getting at 100% wot and how your AFR table seems to be setup to lean it out...since EGO is dropping to 94% (effectively reducing your fuel output by 6%). otherwise, the condition you mention: 100% tps and 4K is no showing up on your logs. it looks like youre lifting around 3700RPM. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1121429)
log the event and the event only.
go recreate it. then press space bar after it happens. that will pinpoint when it happens, then we can look at the logs and see if the MS is actually doing something to cause the issue. once thing i do notice is how lean you're getting at 100% wot and how your AFR table seems to be setup to lean it out...since EGO is dropping to 94% (effectively reducing your fuel output by 6%). otherwise, the condition you mention: 100% tps and 4K is no showing up on your logs. it looks like youre lifting around 3700RPM. |
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Make sure your launch control is off..
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Originally Posted by furrycurry33
(Post 1121439)
Make sure your launch control is off..
I am still going to take some logs to check on what Brain said about being lean. Maybe I need to throw some more fuel at my VE table? |
you dont think 15.0:1 at 99kPa at 4000RPM is lean?
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1121448)
you dont think 15.0:1 at 99kPa at 4000RPM is lean?
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ARR Table
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397495351 So how much should I lower everything... Should I drop the whole table by a few #'s? |
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1.6 dyno'd at 125hp:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397498117 Look at the 100 row. When you go WOT from low rpm, you're going to shoot up to the 100kPa row, and then just sit there until you let off. So currently you're going to sit at 14.5afr until 5800rpm. I'd suggest trying 13.0 across the entire 100kPa row and auto tune for that. Set autotune to "easy" so it really dumps in enough fuel for a few pulls. |
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1121494)
1.6 dyno'd at 125hp:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397498117 Look at the 100 row. When you go WOT from low rpm, you're going to shoot up to the 100kPa row, and then just sit there until you let off. So currently you're going to sit at 14.5afr until 5800rpm. I'd suggest trying 13.0 across the entire 100kPa row and auto tune for that. Set autotune to "easy" so it really dumps in enough fuel for a few pulls. |
It doesn't matter really.... should be simple to look at the two charts, fill in the blanks.
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1121514)
It doesn't matter really.... should be simple to look at the two charts, fill in the blanks.
Thanks for all the help guys! |
Not the top, you don't use the top since you're NA. Take everything from 80-100 and subtract 1.5.
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Originally Posted by thenuge26
(Post 1121518)
Not the top, you don't use the top since you're NA. Take everything from 80-100 and subtract 1.5.
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in the least, just copy the 125 kPa row and put it on the 100 Kpa row.
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That's from an MS1, you have a much bigger and better afr table.
You have some more rpm columns, but you're currently using the same 8 rows that I am, since you're not boosted. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1121528)
in the least, just copy the 125 kPa row and put it on the 100 Kpa row.
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1121530)
That's from an MS1, you have a much bigger and better afr table.
You have some more rpm columns, but you're currently using the same 8 rows that I am, since you're not boosted. Awesome... Can't thank you guys enough. I made some serious progress today :bigtu: |
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Ok so I somewhat tried to replicate Curleys AFR table. Car feels a lot quicker than it did stock! Did a couple logs... Thoughts? I think my AFR's should be a lot better.
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curlys table is okay, if your main goal is to drive the car and inject fuel.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1121795)
curlys table is okay, if your main goal is to drive the car and inject fuel.
I plan on putting the turbo set-up together in July... So I'm sure I'm going to have a lot more questions when that time arrives. I think its drive-able and safe for now.... The only thing's that I'd like to make better soon are: Start-up takes a few tries... Stalled out twice this morning Idle is a little high after it's warmed up.. It's idleing around 1250 |
Eh, it's definitely not perfect, but like I said it made good power. Needs a lot of work to lean things out where we don't need fuel, but the 100kPa row was all I was trying to show.
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Here's mine for comparison's sake. More cells means you can blend a bit more than with Curly's table.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397586502 I stay leaner at higher RPMs because a 4.3 rear end + 70mph speed limits means I'm sometimes cruising at 4200-4400rpm. |
that's probably the best shown so far.
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Very nice.
You're 105 row really is useless though. We were jumping between the 100/90 row for WOT pulls. If you actually go slightly above 100, it'll interpulate anyways. Not that you need more resolution you MS2+ bastard, but just an FYI. |
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Thanks guys. I'm sorry I haven't posted it before this, I know it took me a decent amount of time searching for NA tables while building it, as I wasn't happy just using the under-100 rows of turbo'd tables.
Here's the export of the table if you want to load it up Brian. |
Excellent stuff thanks!! I'm going to upload this table and give it a shot!
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New table feels great after some auto-tuning.
Now I just need to tune my idle and warmup... It's currently sitting around around 1300rpms. Also it takes about 3 tries to get it started and stay running. Time to read up! |
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Ok I am trying to get my idle tuned.
Quotes are from Brain in another thread Once you make sure your fuel and spark tables are smooth and consistent in your idle zone. I like to do the following things: 1. Learn your min/max idle duty %. You can do this two ways, the first being using idle valve test mode and bumping the duty up and down until you no longer see a noticable change in engine speed. remember the values, for a 90-93 you'll see it around ~25-62%. Aslo make sure to remember the RPMs these duty values obtain. The second method is using the Warm-up only mode and doing the same thing, just make sure you are doing it in an area that your CLT temp is sitting at. You should have one of your dashboard gauges displaying the idle PWM% so you know exactly what the MS is outputting. 2. Once you learn these values, plug them into your PID closed loop idle control parameters. So Idle Open Duty %, Idle Valve closed Duty %, RPM with valve closed, and RPM with valve open. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397831442 3. Now I like to start tuning, first, make sure your RPM targets are flat across the board for now, try 1000RPM to start. Now, turn PID values all to zero. Turn on your headlights and a/c blip the throttle and upset the idle and it will probably lock at >2500RPM. you can turn them off now. Now, start increasing the I value. When you slowly add I, you'll notice the RPMs slowly come down towards your target. Do this until you're within ~50RPM of your target...you'll notice the Idle PWM% moves in large chunks so it can only get close enough. Next start increasing P, cycle things like the headlights and a/c, the P term is used to reach your target faster when something causes it to move from your target...you should end up with a term that's above, maybe even double, that of I. Reduce it if you start to oscillate. Lastly you can increase D term, It dampens the effect so you dont overshoot the target when P and I are driving it up to the RPM target. You shouldn't need much. This is the quick and dirty method and should get you rolling smooth and stable within a few minutes. Make sure the rest of the parameters are tuned to your liking, such as the TPS trigger, dashpot, delays, PID lockup settings, etc. What screen should I be doing all of this... I am definitely lost at this step. Looking through the entire idle section, I couldn't see where to change the RPM targets to set them to 1000.... Maybe i'm looking in the wrong place or not looking hard enough.. |
yeah, something's up with the valve. it's gotta be the flyback.
should be like 600rpm at 30% and closer to 3K at 60%. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1122863)
yeah, something's up with the valve. it's gotta be the flyback.
should be like 600rpm at 30% and closer to 3K at 60%. So what should I do? Want me to crack the MS open and snap a couple pics? |
Originally Posted by BTMiata
(Post 1122867)
So what should I do? Want me to crack the MS open and snap a couple pics?
i dont want you to lift to the white board (easy to fubar pins if not careful), but see what you can do for getting a shot under it. then the underside of the blue board. |
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show more where the red wires go on teh green board and then the underside of the blue.
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Pics any good?
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Can you pull it out (lol) so I can see where the green wire goes, and then I want to know where the two red wires goes on the top of the green board.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1123581)
Can you pull it out (lol) so I can see where the green wire goes, and then I want to know where the two red wires goes on the top of the green board.
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