Fresh MS3X install, set my timing. idle issue? (datalog included)
 

So I followed the manual all the way up until I set my timing. Using fixed advance, and trigger angle I got the timing to be set correctly. The car was idling at 850. When I would give it some gas however, it would sputter and take a second for the rpms to rise. I noticed that my MTX-L gauge was reading 22 the whole time. The car has been sitting for a couple of months in my driveway since the AFR install, should I re-calibrate it or am I running rich and that could be what's causing my idle stutter?

Can someone take a look at my data log and help me figure out this issue? Thanks! I'm so close to test driving my car since I installed the ECU.

I took a second data log playing with the REQFUEL. I had it set at 12.1. The second data log shows the REQFUEL back at default at 11.4, the idle stutter seems worse at 11.4. Also the AFRs are super rich the whole time.

22 is maxing the gauge out. Lean. Not rich.

Basically no fuel.

The log says 7.8 and 7.9. Which is probably an error.

I rose the REQFUEL all the way to 25. The car felt like it improved on both idle and power, but it still doesn't feel like enough power in the higher RPM's. The gauge never left 22.4. Tunerstudio read 7.8/ 7.9 the whole time.

Here is a datalog of drives around the block. With each REQFUEL increase by 1, I drove around the block. I did this from 12-21 then I skipped to 25.

Would I need to change my VE tables for stock injectors?

the file is 5.28mb so I uploaded my new data log to my google drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B41...ew?usp=sharing

accidental repost

accidental repost

It's broken

Yes. Its called tuning.

The gauge was working fine when I installed it 2 months ago. It's brand new. The car sat in my driveway. I got the tune to function enough to allow me to get the timing set and the car to move.That's why I asked if I should re-calibrate it, I have no experience with these kinds of things, or knowledge on when or how often I should re-calibrate it. I really don't understand how the gauge could be broken.

Oh, I'm familiar with the term thanks, which is why I am in the tuning section of the forums, requesting help in an endeavor that I have no experience in.

After searching I have found that I should be running the reqfuel at 13.2. However this doesn't solve the stutter problem. I would imagine it has something to do with the VE tables. Any help on what to do next would be greatly appreciated. I'm in the manual in section 3.4.1.1 where it discusses the AFR table and VE tables, is raising the fuel percentages something I have to do or can VE analyze live do it? I'm pretty lost here and could really use the help. Thanks.

it won't hurt to recalibrate. give it a shot and see what happens. I doubt the gauge itself it broken.

edit: also, I assume you have already autotuned?

I'll definitely re-calibrate it. I have not. I got a tune from Braineack, and then I've been following the manual step by step, and I'm in section 3.4. I saved a copy of the tune with where I'm at, and I was going to start adjusting fuel percentages in the fuel tables one by one. I didn't know if this was the proper procedure, or if there are catastrophic mistakes that could be made by someone who had no clue with what he was doing lol.

Braniack sent u a base tune. U don't have to manually adjust. Did u get the free or paid version of tuner studio?

Currently it's the free version. I'll pay for the extra stuff if that's what I need to do.

Edited my last post btw. I HIGHLY recommend u get the paid version. This will unlock the autotune feature.

Which one should I buy for what I need?

https://www.efianalytics.com/registe...=TunerStudioMS

Get that one. the $60 one. Tunerstudio MS

Thanks,I have it now. I'm on the screen for auto tune. Anything I need to know, or is just click and drive pretty much?

Click and drive. Be very smooth with the throttle and use all of the rpm's

Thanks!

No problem. Let me know how it goes

Without re-calibrating I decided to turn on auto tune and go drive it. I made it to the gas station about a mile away, and when I pulled in the car tried to die. I got it back on and drove home, but it was acting super strange, sputtering and losing power. The auto tune was all over the place changing cells like crazy.

Did you let the autotune adjust while at idle? Recalibrate the WB. It seems like the ecu isn't getting wideband input so ur afr/ve tables must be whacked. I can't open the file u attached. It just shows a bunch of numbers and letters on a white page. Im using a mac.

if your AFR gauge is reading 22, then it's not working correctly. that means no fuel.

REQ_FUEL was a set and forget thing. it's literally a multiplier on the fuel table.

i had you add/subtract it to see if you were too rich/lean for initial startup. You should only have to change the number if you changed injectors, and then it's simply math to figure out what to change it to. You need to go back to the initial number that was loaded in it. a REQ FUEL of 25 means the MS is injecting a crap ton of extra fuel (twice what it was set up for), so your fuel table is going to look really small compared to most others to compensate.

If your air/fuel gauge isn't reading correctly in tuner studio it will NOT autotune correctly.

I did let it autotune at idle but only for 2 or 3 minutes. After reading all the replies it probably didn't work because I need to re-calibrate the MTX-L. No worries on the data log. Thanks for the help!


I didn't realize it was a set it and forget it thing when you first told me, then I had a phone conversation with someone from evil genius racing, and they said to throw fuel at it, without double checking the manual, I made the assumption that the REQ FUEL was the area I needed to adjust fuel. After searching around and reading some of your old posts I learned what REQ FUEL really was and that it takes the base pulse width, and the table is scaling that number, I have since changed it back to 13.2 and I have been working from that number. The autotune I did last night with the non working AFR gauge was with the REQ FUEL at 13.2. Thank you for the explanation. I'd seriously be lost without all the help you've given me.

Thank you, this is what I needed to be told. I had switched my battery out during the 2 month sitting period, I probably need to re-calibrate due to that. I'm an idiot lol. I am going to re-calibrate today, and start over. Thank you for telling me this.

So I re-calibrated my sensor. I then got into autotuning and at first my gauge was reading around 12, then slowly as the car warmed up and sat for about 7-10 minutes the AFR gauge started going higher and higher until it reached 22.4, and couldn't start without some throttle.
I went back to the tune I had saved yesterday, and it started up fine, but the gauge is now reading 22.4 and at idle it's running okay, but when I give it a small amount of throttle input the car wants to sputter and then it dies. I can see the autotune changing cells like crazy once again, but my gauge it still at 22.4. I saw the gauge change from 11ish all the way up 20 and it was changing numbers based on the autotune... Should I recalibrate it again?

thats weird. So its thinking that u have way too much fuel and is going lean I assume. have u looked at accel. enrichment?

No I haven't. All I did was go into the VE analyze and click start tune. When it was running pretty well I clicked apply, that made the car sputter and the autotune started adjusting harder. Is there a resource or a step by step on what I should do? I've read things on the forum about turning settings off for idle/warmup, but I have no clue what I am doing lol so I don't want to start messing with things that could mess up the tune, I also don't know what settings I should be looking at to see what I can affect safely.


Checked settings, mine are:
accel-pump AE
EAE
off

You need to add more fuel. But you also need to figure out why it is going lean. The ecu isn't adjusting properly obviously. Is your car boosted?

No it's totally stock. I do have a cat back exhaust, and I installed a brand new MTX-L,and the MS3X came with the AIT. How would I go about adding more fuel?

do it in your VE table. change the number(s) desired until your AFR smooths out

Are your mtl-x gauge and your tuner studio gauge reading the same a/f. until they are don't autotune or drive the car.

^ true

They were not reading the same. Tunerstudio seems stuck on 7.8/7.9. Is there a setting I need to check to get that all set up correctly? should I recalibrate my sensor again?

try recalibrating and see what happens

I would guess that the 7.8 in tuner studio and the 22 on your mtl-x are default error settings. You must figure that out before you continue. Double check your wiring.

I recalibrated it. It seems to work better now.


I took a short video to show what I'm seeing on the gauge and tunerstudio side by side. Do you think this is a wiring issue?

Probably a configuration error.

Maybe a wiring error.

Any suggestions on where I could look to fix the configuration?

Also I should have mentioned, since the AFR's were only out of range by 2 points I clicked autotune to see what would happen, under active filters it was yellow and said o2 out of range. I don't know if that piece of information is helpful or not, considering we already know they are out of range.

Tools -> Calibrate AFR Table

Select the correct sensor

"Only out of range by 2 points"?

2 points will blow your engine in boost. Easily.

Thanks for the info it sounded pretty imperative to learn.


I followed the instructions I found here :https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...novate-config/
I set it to the lc-1/lc-2 option.

Yes

I edited my last post to reflect what I did, but I checked all config settings, and set it to the correct type. I'm still seeing 13ish on my gauge and 10.9/11 on TS. Time to check wiring?

Edit: nvm

22.4% oxygen on gauge = not working. (22.4% means the controller thinks the sensor is in free air and not metering any fuel whatsoever)

7.38AFR in TS = no signal.

No now that you are not reading 22.4 it is probably not the wiring. (although make sure it is grounded properly) it looks to me like a setup issue in tuner studio. Hopefully someone will get on here with some insight on that for you.

You will probably need need to manually adjust the calibration in TS for the wideband. In the instruction book for the wide band it will give you what voltages match to what AFR. You can do a custom calibration and put those in. You will probably have to try slightly different values from the book to get the 2 gauges to match.

use .22v = 7.35 and 5v = 22.4

gets you pretty close, but 2 full points off from gauge to TS seems pretty far off, it's usually like half a point at most.

So would I leave my wideband on LC-1/LC-2 and adjust the values, or do I need to select linear WB and input the values myself?

One thing I have not done is hooked my MTX-L up to logworks. Is that a necessary step? I assumed I wouldn't need to do anything in logworks since I had MS.

Also it seems I'm not the only with this issue of 2 different numbers :http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=131&t=61483
I'll do some more research as well.

try that as a custom calibration in TS, see how close it gets you.

I just want to be totally sure.

I should write these values to the controller?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cf0d488e2a.png

Yes. But expect to have to do this a few times to get the 2 gauges to match.

To better my understanding, do you mean I'll have to write to controller multiple times to get the settings to stick in TS, or will I need to turn the car on and off multiple times after I have input the settings to get them to match up?

No...you will likely need to try multiple times with different numbers to get it right.
write to controller once and test. repeat with different values until the gauges match.
remember that your mtl-x gauge is correct you are changing the TS gauge to match

So should I leave the AFR's the same and just change the volts? I don't know what range of values is safe to input.

I found this post over at MXExtra, does this information help at all? (Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA) ? MTX-L and MS3 - some interesting readings. (View topic))

When I input the 0=10 5=20.1 settings, TS reads 12.4 and is stuck. The gauge is bouncing from 12.6-13
When I input 0=9.5 5=22.39 TS seems super close. the gauge is reading from 12.6-13 and the decimal is moving fairly quickly. TS is reading basically 12.5/12.6. When I give it throttle My car dies and gauge moves to 22.4 and TS moves to 9.5
Hit as high as 13.2 and TS never left 12.5/12.6.

I'm no expert but I think you still have a problem 10 - 20.1 AFR isn't the complete range. Hopefully one of the experts will chime in....

I played around with a lot of numbers in TS, and I couldn't get the AFRs to match up. I have to go to work right now and on lunch I can grab a serial to USB adapter so I can start messing around with the LM programmer.

Update: I got LM programmer and logworks setup. I have tried multiple calibrations. I have changed the settings countless times based on lots of threads. Nothing I do gets TS to read the AFR the same as the gauge. Logworks is reading the same as the gauge. Do you think this could be a grounding issue?

So update: I have redone my ground, soldered all the connections. I still have the same exact issue.
No combination of AFR calibration numbers for Custom WB gets TS to read my AFR the same as my MTX-L gauge. Nor do any of the default innovate settings.
My gauge and LM Programmer are reading the exact same.

What are my options now?

Where is the wideband o2 sensor installed? Pre-cat (near the header) right?

Can you plug in the stock ecu, leave the wideband installed, and drive around a little bit and watch the gauge? After startup it should read in the 13-14 range, and once warm should read between 13.5-15.0 or so. It should hover somewhere around 14.7, but won't be super precise since the ecu won't have the stock o2 sensor to properly calibrate, and it'll throw a code eventually. This should at least let you know if the wideband is operating correctly before throwing in wiring/megasquirt complications.

The wideband is installed in the normal location of the stock o2 sensor. When I installed the MTX-L I was advised on this forum to wire the power and ground into the MS3X's harness. Therefore, if the MS3X is unplugged the gauge will not come on.