HALP! Tuning newb.
 

So I installed me ms2e I received from Reverent. I have a 2005 msm with intake/downpipe on wg psi.

I installed the 650cc injectors I have and then installed the ms unit. Wired in my wideband. The afr on the gauge matches whats in ts. Ran my vacuum line to the unit. Then followed the steps for setting up my tps. Set the timing to fixed. Set my timing degrees to 10 since there were no special instructions for the msm. Car ran fine on the stock ecu so I would assume timing is ok? I don't have a light to see what it really is.

Rev sent me a 650cc map to load and followed his instructions:
Go to Basic Setup -> Engine constants and setup your injectors/engine in there

Displacement: 1839cc
Cylinders: 4
Injector flow: 650cc
Air-Fuel Ratio: 14.7

Remember to select "CC" and "cc/min" on the right.

Then import the fuel table attached in the VE table 1.

Did all that.

The car starts, but idles high at around 2000rpm. Even when the motor is warmed up.

I checked for vacuum leaks, didnt see anything out of order. My vacuum level on my boost gauge is normal.

Next thing I checked was my throttle cable etc to make sure I put the tb back on correctly. Thats fine.

I played around with the closed loop idle target rpm curve and can't get it to idle below 2000rpms even if i just take the whole curve and set it too 800rpms.

Is there something I'm missing? Anything else I can check? Is there a way to adjust idle I'm missing?

I'm a complete newb to this and am just getting acquainted with the interface so forgive me if I sound dumb lol.

Thanks in advance.

target rpm is just the beginning.

tell us about the rest of your idle settings

Well I would but can't till tomorrow since a random storm came through and knocked down a power line in my backyard. Blehhh now I have no power and laptop is dead. I shall see if i can get that info for you in the morning. What all should I look up? Again sorry newb.

Look at base tunes for a 99 or pretty much any 1.8 the idle settings should give you an idea.

Terrible advice, ignore.

Does the green "CL Idle" indicator light in the lower section of the Tunerstudio screen while idling at 2000rpm?

Get a 12 volt to 120 volt converter for ur car. Bought one and definitely worth every penny.

True, don't listen to anything I post at night.

I'm not sure if this will help you guy's. Just snapped some screen shots of different menus. Should I list anything else?

AFR Table 1:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

VE Table 1:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

Ignition Table 1:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

Engine Constants:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

More engine Constants:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

More Engine Constants:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

Idle Control:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

Tach/Input Ignitions Settings:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

More Ignition Options:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

Warmup Enrichment Curve:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372174605

I will double check this shortly.

Houston to Apollo 1: How did you end up with that spark table...













...did you use a table generator?

What is happening with that spark map? Is that using some different measurement or are you really running spark advance near 90?

EDIT: That spark map is so insane that I am surprised your engine did not explode while idling.

OH MYYYYYYY:laugh:

Next time someone says they have an aggressive spark map I'll link them to this thread

I did not knowingly change anything. Only followed instructions so I have no idea how I ended up with that spark map. Whats the best way to correct it? I'll be honest. I don't know what I'm looking at on that table.

For rev:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372175902

This is what a spark table should look like and this is still a tad bit aggressive while in boost for a stock engine. You should probably start out with something similar to this but take out a few degrees in all of the cells under boost.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372176718

what's interesting is that you're idling at 10°, but your spark map is demanding 69° at that area... what am i missing here?


post the actual msq.

his ts gauges show 10* at what I'm assuming is him trying to idle it.
so either his timing is locked at 10* or something really weird is happening (assuming rev didn't accidentally send him the unit with that spark table loaded)


***edit:
Scott beat me to it

So is the reason the car is idling so high because of this aggressive ignition table I seemed to have acquired? Sorry just trying to understand.

Sorry again, where do I find this? I'll gladly post it. lol

BTW Car is just idling. I've not even hit the gas at all yet too scared too.

If you're seriously that clueless, I highly urge you to take it to someone that knows what they're doing.

Seriously.

On a level of readiness to tune a full on standalone between 1 and 10 you are a -70

Awesome. Will do. I have a buddy who knows what he's actually doing. I'll just wait till he can make the trip over to look at it. Thanks for the help so far guys!

It looks like the timing is locked; see Fixed Advance, instead of Table in the "more ignition options" window.

So... my late night advice of loading a base tune wasn't far-fetched..

That's good. I wasn't trying to be mean, I just think you might do more harm than good if you keep plugging away at it without a clue on what each table means.


BTW an msq is the thing that you opened to show us those maps and gauges. Basically its your "map" or "tune". You can simply attach the file to a post here and people can open it and see if what you're posting screen shots of is what is actually in your tune.

*edit:
In the mean time, you can start with copying the timing table posted by Ryan (or something similar) and unlocking your timing as per post above. Don't unlock it until your table is normal and not at 90* cause you can seriously damage the car if you drive it at max advance

Thank god for that.

No offense taken. I understand I have no idea what I'm doing lol. I'm glad you guy's are taking the time to help me. I thought this was pretty plug and play from the instructions and the couple other people I've talked too. I'm now thinking I'm in a little over my head. Guess you gotta start somewhere.

MSQ, sorry I didn't put it together that was what he was referring too, derr.. LOL So should I just save my project and upload it here?

It is usually plug and play for the most part but there are always tweaks to be made and every car is different so you never know what problems might arise. You can definitely learn how to tune it yourself but you need to have a pretty good grasp of the basics before you attempt to install and run the MS. You'll get there.

Change out your spark table ASAP just to be safe. I am not sure how you ended up with that spark table but it is beyond dangerous.

Yes, upload your project directly to the site.

Ok here's my project with the changes made to that table. I'll wait for recommendations from you guy's before I proceed with anything. Again thanks for all the help.

Looks like I loaded the VE table into the ignition by accident.

Derp. :facepalm:

I've emailed you the proper ignition table.

On the subject of idling high: it looks like you are in closed loop idle, so the idle valve is doing its job.

You changed your injectors, didn't you? Look for vacuum leaks. If you unplug the idle valve, does it go any lower than say, 2500rpm?

I thought they looked suspiciously similar. values must tap out at 90°.

so that's what ALLOFIT on a spark map looks like :D

Well Vlad... thats what ur timing map is going to have to look like before you can make any power on the rat wheel.

Thanks Rev I got it. I will import it tomorrow. I did change the injectors, I looked for vacuum leaks and didn't see any but I also reused the intake manifold gasket that was already there since I ordered a new one from miataroadster a month ago and it's still not here. There always stupid slow with shipping. I'll probably pull it all apart again and double/triple check everything. I may just wait till that new gasket comes in. The original one was looking a little bit grimy.


I basically just want to get the car somewhat drivable so I can make the hour and a half drive to my tuner.

Small update.

I took everything back apart again to discover injectors 1-2 weren't seated properly which was causing my high idle. Car starts great now after fixing that and changing that ignition table. I still have sort of high idle around 1400rpms. But I didn't let the car warm up really to see idle settle down. I'm thinking I may have to go back and change the warmup enrichment settings. Does anyone have a good basis I can copy or go off of?

But for now I'm happy the car is in relative working order. Won't actually drive it for a little while though. Not till I get that new intake plenum gasket. Called MR and Bill said he accidentally forgot about my order and would ship ASAP. doh!

Anyways, again I'm so thankful for all your guys help!


Sent from my iPad Mini

Ok let the car warm up and it still idles around 1200rpms and is rich like 10.5-11afrs.

I checked and checked and do not see any possible vacuum leaks. I used some propane around all my pluming etc and didn't notice difference in idle. My only thought is its that gasket.

I tried unplugging the idle control valve and the idle changed maybe 100rpms. I noticed it drooped slightly before returning .

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Bump

Ok I've been learning stuffs and adjusting some things. I've gotten the car to idle down too around 700-800rpms. Still quite pig rich though around 10:1-11:1 afrs.

Could someone take a look over my msq and double check things for me? I sent off my msq and a datalog to my tuner. But I'd love second opinions.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Ok I adjusted things again now I'm idling perfect at 14.7. :D I also drove the car around town a bit not really going more then 4000rpm. Seems to be riding ok. I let VEAL do some tuning and things seem to be getting better. :D

Feel like I'm just talking to myself here... LOL

Anyone have an issue with tuner studio staying connected to your ecu while data logging? Mine seems to keep disconnecting after 10 minutes of driving. Tried a different cable as well as made sure my laptop wasn't going to sleep etc... Hmmm

I read, learning off you, have nothing to offer

Ok I figured out how to actually data log properly.. lol durrr... Didn't realize if you hit settings>start logging you could actually save the log as a .msl file and not just the .csv.

Here's a log of my driving around my block for the most part with a few 2nd gear pulls. Car leans out a little in the higher rpms around 13:1.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and get out on the highway and let VEAL do some work in the higher rpms. Though I still need to figure out why my laptop randomly keep disconnecting from my ecu after 10 minutes. I'm figuring it's something to do with the laptop and it's power settings.

Thanks! I'm slowly learning some. :noob:

your priming pulse width looks odd, but then I dont have a turbo. It start ridiculously high, but that might be a error on my side.

Aha! I think I figured out why my laptop was randomly disconnecting from my ecu after some time!

Here's the culprit:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1372657151

The fuel pump does prime for what seems like a longish time. But the car fires up right away for the most part.

I know it seems like you are talking to yourself but you seem to be doing a great job of learning on your own. I would suggest that you hand tune the top of your table to make it richer before you go out and use VEAL. You don't want it to run too lean while you are in boost until VEAL corrects it. It would be better to be a little rich and let VEAL lean it out.

I did this today and OMG the car feels greatish for now. Basically went out in the cornfields of IL and just sat at certain rpms and let VEAL do work on the high end.

I got lucky and my tuner is actually coming to visit me tomorrow so hopefully he'll be able to tap out even more awesomeness.

I kinda feel like my fuel table looks like dick-all but at least the car stays perfect around 11.5 afrs in every gear right up too 6500rpm. I'm running wastegate pressure so around 8psi. I creep a little bit after 5000rpms in 5th and 6th but my afrs still stay around 12.

It's so nice though! I feel like I have a new car! So much more drivable.

If anyone is interested in my progress, here's my latest msq. I'll see if I can get a new datalog up tomorrow.

Yeah this is always a good idea. If your fuel map is in the 90%s up top and VEAL is bringing you up to say 130%, go ahead and make everything up top 130% and tune from there. Better to be pig rich and have VEAL pull some fuel than the other way around. Then you can work on smoothing out the transitions.

Ok here's what my tuner and I were able to come up with today. Had a odd issue with my boost controller so we just tuned for 8psi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mazduh (Post 1026930)

Feel like I'm just talking to myself here... LOL

---

Read below to learn why you didn't receive any more responses.
Good job figuring things out. If someone had held your hand you wouldn't have learned and retained as much knowledge. People helped where you needed it and things that could have hurt your car like letting it lean when tuning instead or enrichen while VEAL turning were pointed out.

what size injectors are you using?
any mod to the fuel pressure?
the 4.7 fuel required setting seems very low
have you adjusted for electronic latency?

FIC 650cc

That's how it came from Reverent. Haven't touched it.

Nope.

just ran the calc for fuel required, and 4.7 about right for 1840cc/650cc/14.7afr
I am running 1890cc/525cc/14.0 and getting 6.3

latency, the delay in the system from the coil event to the actual spark is very car specific and is something that Dimitris cannot measure

measure/adjust using a timing light
1. check timing at idle, adjust to align crankshaft-pointer marks
2. have assistant rev engine to 4000 rpm, observe whether crankshaft-pointer marks are still aligned, adjust latency setting to align

I'm not sure what your getting at? your setup is obviously going to be different from mine. You said yourself 4.7 is right for my injector size and 1839cc.

oophs, coils don't initiate the spark event, the CAS and/or cam/crank sensors initiate the spark event; but addressing latency is still relevant

at idle, any delay [and there will be delay] from the SENSOR event and the spark event will have little impact on power; different story at higher revs, delay [latency] means the spark event actually occurs after the optimal spark time with a corresponding adverse impact on engine performance

the megasquirt latency adjustment just adjusts timing for the delay

not saying you will add 20-hp, but you may add 1 more angel [on the head of the pin]

Ohh ok. Cool thanks for the input! I'll talk to my tuner about doing that.

Hey guys,

So I wired in the ebc I picked up from DIYAutotune and I'm wondering what parameters I need to set in TS to get it communicating with the ebc.

I did some searching and a lot of what i found concerning the ebc I think is outdated or another ms firmware.

Looks like this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373240222


Mine looks like this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1373240222


Can anyone point me in the right direction so I can figure it out? I'm just not sure what I need to set for boost control location and pin etc...

Thanks

Everything is already setup for you - you don't have to change anything. Just start playing with the boost map.

Oh... ok then! lol :bowrofl:

Update:

I've got the ebc up and running thanks to rev pointing out a great 12v power source from the red/white wire in the MAF connector.

Playing around with the car at 10psi. Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be able to make it over to my tuner's place so he ca dial in things for 12psi. I've got a few mechanical things I need to fix first and replace.

gj
 

great work man, im about to begin my journey in tuning the ms, fingers crossed ive got a na6 turbo.