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help with mspnp9093 fan control
I have a fan control problem.
I am not running the front clt sensor becuase it supposedly is not used by the mspnp. I have not touched any other settings because they all look right. The output #2 menu has the trigger temp set at 215, when I lower it to something colder than ambient it does not turn on. Any thoughts? |
Isnt the front temp sensor is what turns the fans on and off? While the rear is what you see on your dash? You could either wire it to a switch and manually turn it on and off, or do as i did, and just ground it and whenever the key is on the fans are on.
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Use a DMM or testlight to see if the fan is getting power, then start tracing back. There's a relay in the underhood fuse area, probably a fuse in there too. If you've done any 'experimenting' with a dual fan set up and a/c, it's likely you've blown the relay.
I hijacked the fan switch and re-wired it to the a/c fan through a DPST relay. So the main fan comes on at the temp set by MS and the secondary fan comes on with a/c or at where the fan switch is set-207 I think. |
I can take the switch to gnd and the fans come on. No fuses are blown. What's "dpst?"
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so it sounds like you did some 'experimenting' with a dual fan setup. return wiring to stock.
it's a spdt relay, not dpst. google bitch. |
Post screen shot of your settings. They're probably wrong.
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Yea, what they said. LOL............
Your almost done. Doesn't it feel good? When you have it grounded with the key off, does the fans still run? If not and all else fails, just hook the ground up, and install a fuse on the power end. Fans run when the car is on. And if it draws too much power it will blow the fuse. Atleast your car is always cool. |
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yeah you have. it's set to turn the fan on at 255F.
try backing it down to something more reasonable. |
For some BS reason you have to put that number 40*F colder than what you actually want. I think. That's why it read 215*F and been says "it's set to turn the fan on at 255F". So if it's 70*F outside put it to 0*F and see if the fans power on.
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at "0" I have no fans.
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Who knows with your frakenstein shit. Put a voltage meter on the output coming from MS and verify if it's sending out a GROUND when it turns the fans on. That will isolate the problem to either the MS or the cars wiring. Just put the meter for a continuity test. One side to ground, one to MS fan output and see if you get continuity when you tell MS to turn the fans on. Troubleshoot your shit.
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This shit is ghey as fuck.
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Off topic but where is that Kpa = Psi chart you had?
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Kpa - 100 / 7 = psi
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An on-off limit of 215 equates to 175F. That is indeed the MSPNP default. Ben, you went the wrong way.
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paging diyautotune.
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any chance that this is something simple like a need to plug the sensor in, although its not in the motor?
Can someone with a 9093 unplug their front fan switch sensor and see if the fans still work? I know DIY says this works, but it would be nice to know if anyone else has successfully done this. I've bitten off more than I can chew and now I have a car I can't drive. This was my #1 concern with this car. |
My fan works without the thermoswitch on the thermostat cover connected. Verified many times.
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any idea on which pin to check coming from the computer? I'd really like to get the car working so I could drive it on a 300 mile trip.
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Pin 1R. It's grounded to turn the fan on.
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Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 334902)
Use a DMM or testlight to see if the fan is getting power, then start tracing back. There's a relay in the underhood fuse area, probably a fuse in there too. If you've done any 'experimenting' with a dual fan set up and a/c, it's likely you've blown the relay.
I hijacked the fan switch and re-wired it to the a/c fan through a DPST relay. So the main fan comes on at the temp set by MS and the secondary fan comes on with a/c or at where the fan switch is set-207 I think. I did this but was almost certain that I switched it back to stock (quick change for the track) due to the addition of the slim fans and uncertainty with MSpnp. If I forgot to switch everything back, did I just lose $700 by burning up my computer? Any links or preferably pics how to wire up the relay? I'm electrically stupid. I need to set this up so MS turns on both fans because the AC is gone. Man, I'm super fucking nervous right now. $700 down the shitter. Looks like going the turbo route was a mistake because I'm dumb. |
^ Calm down. It sometimes scares me that you have any influence in any decision-making related to the spending of my tax dollars.
Look at Ben's post here for a slick dual stage fan setup. It's currently successfully implemented on my car, as well as his old '91. It's nearly impossible to have fried your MSPNP just by screwing with the fans. Have you even tried jumping the fans at the connector? Tracked wiring at all? |
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE
(Post 338007)
^ Calm down. It sometimes scares me that you have any influence in any decision-making related to the spending of my tax dollars.
Look at Ben's post here for a slick dual stage fan setup. It's currently successfully implemented on my car, as well as his old '91. It's nearly impossible to have fried your MSPNP just by screwing with the fans. Have you even tried jumping the fans at the connector? Tracked wiring at all? I've never been good at electrical shit because I don't know much about it and I've never learned enough to be confident enough to make major decisions...and i smoked every ground wire in my jetta once because I forgot to connect a gnd on the transmission. I'm speaking from another bad experience. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 338010)
Well, I'm confident in my work with my programs because I'm educated and understand the process.
I've never been good at electrical shit because I don't know much about it and I've never learned enough to be confident enough to make major decisions...and i smoked every ground wire in my jetta once because I forgot to connect a gnd on the transmission. I'm speaking from another bad experience. Anyway, try jumping the fan at the connectors. If it works, work your way back to the ECU. You'll figure it out. |
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE
(Post 338012)
As somebody who has a hand in developing some of the FEMA documents that I hope you use, it still scares me ;)
Anyway, try jumping the fan at the connectors. If it works, work your way back to the ECU. You'll figure it out. |
Yes, I am that good...
Originally Posted by Ben
2 stage fan mod
Goal: Have first fan stage circuit excite at 175 F. Have second stage fan circuit excite at 206 F. Do not interfere with A/C control over pass side fan. Result: engine temp < 175 F = No fan engine temp > 175 F & < 206 F = Single stage fan engine temp > 206 = 2 stage fan (both fans running) A/C on = A/C fan on, regardless of engine temp Required items: SPDT relay, primary wire, crimp connectors, electrical tape, 30A fusible link Instructions: The relay has 5 positions, wire as follows Pin 30 to A/C side fan black/blue stripe wire FAN SIDE OF WIRE Pin 85 to thermosensor Pin 86 to +12V Pin 87 NO to +12V (high power) Pin 87a NC to A/C side fan black/blue wire on the CAR SIDE OF WIRE You need a real automotive SPDT relay with a true NO contact and a true NC contact. The el cheapo $1.49 relays probably won't cut it. It should run $7-10. You can grab +12V at the underhood fuse box. There are a variety of places. I had an unused position, so I crimped a spade connector onto a 14ga wire, and inserted it into the bottom side of the unused positon. Then reinstall the fuse block and insert a 30A fusible link. *(I ran this wire to both pin 87 (high power input) and pin 86 (switched 12V) so that my relay had power full time. If you wanted the relay to only work key on, you would need to run a switched on +12V source to pin 86.) The A/C side fan has 2 wires. Leave the black wire alone. Cut the black/blue stripe wire. The side of the wire that goes to the fan connects to pin 30 on the relay. The side of the black/blue wire that comes from the car goes to pin 87a on the relay. The thermosensor on top of the thermostat housing has only one wire. Cut it and bring it to pin 85 on the relay. Tape everything up and make sure all your wiring is secured. Enjoy |
Hustler, I ran into a similar issue and at the end of it all it ended up being just bad connections at the fuse box where the realy pins are. They were not lining up correcty and getting a good connection. You might have also caused the realy to go bad as I did mess up 2 of my self just testing stuff. Take a look at my post here it might help.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t25604/ |
Originally Posted by zarish
(Post 338032)
Hustler, I ran into a similar issue and at the end of it all it ended up being just bad connections at the fuse box where the realy pins are. They were not lining up correcty and getting a good connection. You might have also caused the realy to go bad as I did mess up 2 of my self just testing stuff. Take a look at my post here it might help.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t25604/ Brain, is there a more simple solution to getting both fans to come on. I don't need that multi-temp shit, I just want them to turn on when shit gets hot. I'm going for "easy" here because I don't have very much time to do all this...in a hotel parkinglot. |
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t10109/#post117025
edit: maybe I screwed this all up a long time ago, and the 2nd clt sensor kept turning on the fans. Man, I'm dumb. |
My name ain't brain.
I told you like 10 years ago to not do the stupid "hakuna mod". then I told you a few days ago to un-do any modifications you did to your fan system and bring it to stock. you don't listen, then you bitch when sh!t don't work. hmm. bring your junk to stock. then do the mod I outlined for you. it's 10 minutes worth of work, being ---- and careful. there are at least 3 cars running fans the way I've outlined. |
lol, you're my dad. I listened, and spent a few hours working on it, and i think it was back in stock form.
thanks for the write up. I'm going to get this figured out on sunday I hope. |
so is there an absolute minimum for the fan trigger temp? Its 46* outside and what I believe to be pin 1R is not going to gnd when set at 50* (10*f in reality)
for future searching: pin assignments |
so, is there a how-to on assigning additional outputs to switch to gnd, so I can still have a fan?
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The absolute minimum is -40 degrees.
You can use the boost control as output 1 for a second on/off control. |
which pin or wire can I just to MS for "dual fans"? I was told I could do this with the AC wire, since I pulled the compressor. I still can't get the fans to work.
things I know: both fans come on with the AC switch driver side fan comes on with the TFA and GND pins jumped i have continuity at the black/green wire from the MS computer connector to the fuse panel plug I have continuity at the black/green wire on the fuse box side with the computer I have continuity with the black/green wire (pin 1r) at gnd with the value set at 70* (actually triggered at 50*) I am confused. |
if the front fan lead activates the fans when i gnd the plug...does that mean the wiring is in working order and the fans will come on when triggered by the front sensor?
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 362170)
if the front fan lead activates the fans when i gnd the plug...does that mean the wiring is in working order and the fans will come on when triggered by the front sensor?
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Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
(Post 362173)
hustler im thinking yes, you can test it by splicing your oem sensor back into place and dipping it into some hot water. Or install it inline with your coolant and wait for the temps to rise and turn the fans on.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 362181)
Can I just heat that bitch up with a torch and see if it triggers?
What are you giving away? Im looking for a thermostat housing to do that remote thermostat i PMed you about. |
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
(Post 362225)
The wire? No, the sensor? I dont see why not. Its just triggered by tempature.
What are you giving away? I'm looking for a thermostat housing to do that remote thermostat i PMed you about. I don't know if i can give that up...maybe. |
does anyone know what the 3-pins on the NB water temp sensor do?
Any chance one of those could be used in place of the NA front sensor? Fingers crossed so I don't have to give money to a machine shop. |
I tried jumping 1R and 1Q and I still get no fan when i take both circuits to GND. I'm really confused and tired. I almost melted down the motor last night when driving home from the bar.
Can I use one of the other outputs to trigger the fan? I could use the boost control output, but not sure which to configure. Thanks for the help as usual. |
this shit is fucking gay. WTF does a nigga have to do to get a god damn fan working?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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c'mon, my back is against the wall.
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If the fans come on with closure to ground manually, why haven't you wired up a switch in the mean time til you figure out the megasquirt issue? This would keep you from "melting down" your brand new expensive engine.
Edit: I just realized this is a 3 page thread that I didn't read through...you may have alrdy done this. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 387853)
I tried jumping 1R and 1Q and I still get no fan when i take both circuits to GND. I'm really confused and tired.
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/...nm_da22b13.png If grounding the black / green wire at 1R isn't turning on the fan, then something's wrong and you need to troubleshoot it. Is the cooling fan relay good? Is there power getting to the socket where it should be from the 30A "cooling fan" fuse and from the main relay? Is the fan plugged in? That kind of stuff. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 388658)
It's really pretty simple:
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/...nm_da22b13.png If grounding the black / green wire at 1R isn't turning on the fan, then something's wrong and you need to troubleshoot it. Is the cooling fan relay good? Is there power getting to the socket where it should be from the 30A "cooling fan" fuse and from the main relay? Is the fan plugged in? That kind of stuff. I can turn the fans on with the AC switch pin 1r to gnd and I get nothing pin 1q to gnd and I get nothing yes, its hot at the fuse. the fan relay works in my other miata just fine front sensor is not hooked up because supposedly ms doesn't use it I think every connection is good thanks for the help. |
just bumping this again in hopes that someone can help me. I've wasted about 2 hours on it today retracing steps and can't figure it out. If the relay works, the fuse works, and the wires are connected with continuity at GND, shouldn't the fan switch on? I'm almost certain the problem lies in the car.
Anyone care to tell me how to crack open the computer and check the circuitry? |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 405701)
Anyone care to tell me how to crack open the computer and check the circuitry?
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/wp-con...rewdrivers.jpg The fan activation circuitry is just a simple transistor and a couple of resistors, you'll need a decent multimeter to test the transistor. As an educated guess it'll be located on the custom breakout board that DIY designed for the pnp. Probably labeled too. |
hey hustler did you ever figure this out?
i'm having the same issue... |
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited
(Post 405724)
One of these
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/wp-con...rewdrivers.jpg The fan activation circuitry is just a simple transistor and a couple of resistors, you'll need a decent multimeter to test the transistor. As an educated guess it'll be located on the custom breakout board that DIY designed for the pnp. Probably labeled too. I'm pretty much "over working on this thing. |
Originally Posted by james399
(Post 405833)
hey hustler did you ever figure this out?
i'm having the same issue...
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 405701)
just bumping this again in hopes that someone can help me. I've wasted about 2 hours on it today retracing steps and can't figure it out. If the relay works, the fuse works, and the wires are connected with continuity at GND, shouldn't the fan switch on? I'm almost certain the problem lies in the car.
Anyone care to tell me how to crack open the computer and check the circuitry? |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 405850)
do you have the front clt sensor / gnd fan switch hooked up?
i'm also having issues with my fuel pump not turning on... if i jump the fuel pump in the diag box, car starts no problem, the moment i remove the jumper the car dies.... but today i was dicking with it, and was idling it with the fuel jumper in place, and noticed the my coolant temp was well above the 175 diy engagment point, the light on megatune indicating output 2 was green and "on"... but the fan didn't turn on... i did everything you did.. i know the fan works because it turns on when i ground it, the relay is working because i can here it triggering when i ground and unground the sensor plug... but ms won't turn it on... -J |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 388658)
It's really pretty simple:
If grounding the black / green wire at 1R isn't turning on the fan, then something's wrong and you need to troubleshoot it. Is the cooling fan relay good? Is there power getting to the socket where it should be from the 30A "cooling fan" fuse and from the main relay? Is the fan plugged in? That kind of stuff. there is one black and green wire on the little plug... i ground it and my fan turned right on.... so that means it has to be a megaquirt issue right? |
hey hustler... i was talking to someone and this might work as a temporary fix for you...
at pepboys, they sell kits that allow you to add electrical fans to older cars... basically the kit include a thermo sensor that clips into the radiator... you can wire it to where the front clt sensor plugs in... so that when the temp rises in the radiator the thermo switch will complete the ground, and the fan will turn on... its about 25-30 bucks... -J |
I just had a moment of brilliance!!!!
How can I make the "boost control" output switch to GND and operate the fans? I'm going to wire it into the factory "front" sensor until I have more time to diagnose. At least then I don't have to worry about overheating the car in traffic, and I can manually switch on both fans via the AC switch on the track if necessary. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 406258)
I just had a moment of brilliance!!!!
How can I make the "boost control" output switch to GND and operate the fans? I'm going to wire it into the factory "front" sensor until I have more time to diagnose. At least then I don't have to worry about overheating the car in traffic, and I can manually switch on both fans via the AC switch on the track if necessary. so now i'm filing a claim with ups.... f' me for buying a used unit....*sigh* |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 406258)
I just had a moment of brilliance!!!!
How can I make the "boost control" output switch to GND and operate the fans? I'm going to wire it into the factory "front" sensor until I have more time to diagnose. At least then I don't have to worry about overheating the car in traffic, and I can manually switch on both fans via the AC switch on the track if necessary. Then you'll need to switch everything around in the software. What you need to do here is open up MegaTune, with the MSPNP powered up. Then go to "file" and then "Codebase and output functions" and then look for the "X4(JS2)" pin setting on that screen. Switch it from "boost control" to "Output 1" Then you'll go to the "more settings" menu tab, and choose "outputs" then go the "output 1" on that screen, and turn it on, and fill in all of the variables you want. The outputs section of the MS1/extra manual will explain how to set that one up a bit better, MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual Note that you do not need to build that circuit, you're only on that page to read about what the variable settings do to help you set this up for your car |
Originally Posted by Matt Cramer
(Post 407203)
The outputs section of the MS1/extra manual will explain how to set that one up a bit better, MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual Note that you do not need to build that circuit, you're only on that page to read about what the variable settings do to help you set this up for your car
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