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Old 10-21-2014, 03:03 PM   #1
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Question High AFR on basemap MSPNP MM9093

Hello.
This is what I have done so far:
Installed my MSPNP MM9093 on my Mx-5 (miata) NA 1990 1.6.
Removed the MAF and installed a IAT-sensor.
Set the timing.
Removed the old narrowband sensor and installed a Innovate LC-1.
Calibrated the Innovate LC-1.
Connected the Analog output 2 to the old narrowband connector (goes to the MS). Connected analog output 1 to a AFR meter / gauge inside the car. Bot outputs are set as lambda and wideband. I followed the instructions on this site: MX-5 Unleashed - Mega Squirt PNP installation instruction for Eunos or miata and ofc this: MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com

The car started with no problem. However, the AFR reading in tunerstudio are about 2 higher then on my gauge. The LC-1 is grounded at the same place as the original ECU (and now the MS). The Gauge is grounded inside the car (ISO-connector, I don't have a cd-player installed).

A couple of questions:
It seems like the car is running lean when idleing, but the idle is perfect when the car is warm. It's at 950 rpm. I ran the Warmup Enrichment autotune in TunerStudio, but it didn't change anything. The car warmed up with a steady RPM of 1300 ish before it setteled at 950 RPM. Under the warm up, the AFR on my gauge showed 15 - 16 and Tunerstudio shoed 17 - 18... Why?

I haven't driven the car yet, in fear of it running lean. I don't trust my AFR readings.

I used the basemap from DIYAutotune.

DASH:


EGO Control:


Ignition Advance Table:


Lambda Sensor Settings:


Project Config:


Project Settings:


Spark Settings:


VE Table:


Warmup Enrichment:
Attached Thumbnails
High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-dash.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-egocontrol.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-ignitiontable.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-lambdasensortargets.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-projectconfig.jpg  

High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-projectsetting.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-sparksetting.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-vetable.jpg   High AFR on basemap  MSPNP MM9093-warmupenrichment.jpg  
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:04 PM   #2
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Sounds like a ground issue. Connect gauge and LC-1 to same ground as MS and compare again.
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:05 PM   #3
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Will do. But why is it running lean when I'm using the basemap? The one that is connected to the same ground as the MS, is showing 18 AFR on idle (warmup)....
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:08 PM   #4
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Basemap is basemap. You have to tune for your specific car. But, until you know you have an accurate AFR in Tuner Studio, don't make any fueling changes.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:35 PM   #5
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Ok. I'll change the ground for the gauge. The AFR in tunerstudio should be correct though. I just find it strange that it's idleing so fine with a 18 AFR.. I don't want to start autotuning if the AFR readings are way off.

I'll try do to the changes tomorrow and report back.
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:56 PM   #6
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mines the same, grounded to the engine, its the basemap is rubbish mate.... I just turned the required fuel up alittle so it idles around 14-14.7,

you should also notice when u floor it...... it should go rich after 3-4k
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:04 PM   #7
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The problem was that I hadnīt set up a AFR Target table. I then used autotune to get going. Works great.
I also grounded everything on the same place. The AFR readings are the same now :-)

WUE is tuned okay too.
But AFR is no to rich after Iīve driven for half an hour. If I then autotune it, the AFR is lean the next time I start the car (even when the engine gets hot).

Please post your AFR Target table :-) Would be nice to comapre.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:38 PM   #8
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i had this same exact issue before... idle is fine and it wont even hunt, or rpm bounce, took off my MS, ran band aid setup, replaced 350cc injector with oem ones , replaced my exhintake cam, ran a crossover pipe bypassing the FMIC , sprayed every possible hoses for vacuum leak, and rechecked my timing ..still nothing. and my vacuum is steady 19-20hg .. i was soo lost .. until i decided to look around the exhaust pipes. viola, i have a exhaust leak after my wideband 02 sensor.. so that fixed it ... now time to put my old stuff back in
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:15 AM   #9
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I'll have to check that out.
I didn't think a leak after the o2 sensor made any difference.

I'll need to figure out this problem before I install 550cc injectors and the JRSC-kit.
*continues to read the manual*
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helly View Post
Bot outputs are set as lambda and wideband.
I did not think you could do that, I thought one of the outputs were locked to narrowband and the other was programmable.

Might want to double check that you have the right connections to the right inputs to the ECU/guage
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:10 AM   #11
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I believe you are correct.

The problem is not that the AFR differs from the gauge to TunerStudio. But AFR in general is too low.
So.. AFR readings are fine after I grounded everything at the same spot.
I think the problem is in my tune. My AFR-Target Table is just something I typed up after reading the manual and different articles about the miata and ms. Not sure it is the best one.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:09 AM   #12
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I don't see where you posted your target AFR's.

If you now have TS and gauge reading the same, the next step is to choose your AFR targets.

Then tune VE table, WUE, MAT Corr, etc to get you at your targets. You can use autotune to help with VE table which is where you shoud start, at fully warmed.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:27 AM   #13
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This is a old thread. I can upload my AFR targets + the tune and logs.

WUE is good. The AFR when I start it after standing still for a month is good. No problem after I tuned the WUE.

I've done this: Started the car, waited for it to get warm, then I've taken if for a run and used autotune to get good AFR-readings. If I stop the car for a while (let's say 30 minutes) and go for a drive again, the AFR is too rich. Like 11 - 12 while cruising. So after a while I used autotune to tune it again. The problem is that when I start the car the next day, the AFR is too lean...

So.. I went for a ride, autotuned it, stopped, waited a while and went for a ride again. Same problem. Then I just drove home and parked.
The next day I started it up, no problem. Good AFR-readings.

The problem: I only get rich AFR-Readings after a warm start. And they stay rich until I stop. I though this could be a problem with heatsoaking the IAT-sensor. But then the AFR should me lean ( ? ) .

I'll try to read up on MAT correction and test that out. Thanks.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:04 AM   #14
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Sorry, I didn't notice that the first posts were far in time away from the recent ones.

You are on the right track. If MAT is being overcompensated you could go rich. But when heat soak is over with, things should go normal. The thing to look for is correlation between MAT and AFR. If there is correlation, then that is likely where you need to adjust. If there is not, then you will need to look elsewhere.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:06 AM   #15
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Thanks. I'll check it out asap!
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:56 PM   #16
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Hey, did you fix these problems?

I am also running mspnp 90-93 on a 1.6. Having same problems as you.

I think tune is changing with temp. Colder air needing more fuel, warmer intake air needing less.
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Old 12-08-2015, 12:00 AM   #17
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Regarding AFR...

I started w/ a similar basemap but made many changes to the AFR table based upon reading in tuning books. I recall leaning out cruise cells 15.5 mostly, and keeping my 100kPA row (I'm NA running 93 octane) around 12.5.

I say that w/ the point that I adjusted the basemap to what I felt comfortable after research for how to set up the AFR table. Too much chasing of tails early on thinking I had a good AFR table only to then make changes and have to retune...

If you're using the standard GM IAT sensor and have it calibrated correctly, it shouldn't be heat-soaking and lowering your AFRs after you autotune.

An opinion on the INNOVATE LC-1...

I'll offer this...I started tuning last Spring using an older lightly-used XD-16 (i.e. LC-1 + AFR gauge) from the previous turbo setup and had a helluva time getting it to read accurately. Tried different grounding schemes to no avail. It would always calibrate near actual then drift. It may be able to have accuracy restored, but I simply didn't want to mess w/ it...

I ripped it out and bought an AEM UEGO based upon glowing reviews...in this one case, the Internet doesn't lie. These things plain work w/ no attention needed. I've ran mine since June(?) tuning fuel and driveability while chasing an ignition issue and have not had any accuracy issues. Money well-spent to not have to second-guess a crucial sensor.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:46 AM   #18
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I've moved the IAT sensor from the exhaust side to the intake side. I'm running a M45 supercharger. I tuned it way rich. But Atleast I can drive it around and do stop without having it lean out.

I'm installing an intercooler this winter, after that I will have it tuned by someone who knows a lot more about megasquirt then me.
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Old 01-08-2016, 07:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helly View Post
This is a old thread. I can upload my AFR targets + the tune and logs.

WUE is good. The AFR when I start it after standing still for a month is good. No problem after I tuned the WUE.

I've done this: Started the car, waited for it to get warm, then I've taken if for a run and used autotune to get good AFR-readings. If I stop the car for a while (let's say 30 minutes) and go for a drive again, the AFR is too rich. Like 11 - 12 while cruising. So after a while I used autotune to tune it again. The problem is that when I start the car the next day, the AFR is too lean...

So.. I went for a ride, autotuned it, stopped, waited a while and went for a ride again. Same problem. Then I just drove home and parked.
The next day I started it up, no problem. Good AFR-readings.

The problem: I only get rich AFR-Readings after a warm start. And they stay rich until I stop. I though this could be a problem with heatsoaking the IAT-sensor. But then the AFR should me lean ( ? ) .

I'll try to read up on MAT correction and test that out. Thanks.
Have you made sure warm up enrichment is of before starting auto tune?
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Old 01-08-2016, 07:58 PM   #20
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<ctrl><alt><prt scn> takes a screenshot that can then easily be inserted into a post.
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