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Old 08-27-2009, 10:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
To add 30%, you don't shift by 30, you scale by 1.3.

E85... Chris Swearegen's MS2 is set up for it. Not sure if he actually started using it. Injector size probably needs to go up, depending on how high your DC% is on gasoline.

Lines & seals are somewhat a matter of speculation. Some say that most cars built in the last 20 years or so are ok with it. And that since we're all running E10 anyway, you'd know if there was a problem already. All we know is, he's called The Stig.
I ran on e-85 for a year or so. No fuel system problems at all. I am not currently running it. You will find that you have to watch the stations very carefully. At least in Colorado they have winter blend e-85 and summer blend e-85. The pump label says "up to 85%" in the summer it's pretty close, in the winter they shoot for e-70 to help with cold starts. I had my MS-II set up to accept a flex fuel sensor so that I didn't have to worry. As I got further into it, I realized that the MS-II would adjust my AF based on the sensor, but there was no provision for altering the timing table. I suppose I could have implemented some type of table switching based on the output from the flex fuel sensor, but that still wouldn't optimize my timing for the exact blend of ethanol. I could have tuned for 80% and for pump gas and switched between the two but that was more of a compromise than I wanted.

Another concern that my engine guy brought up but I hadn't heard discussed anywhere was upper cylinder lubrication. The e-85 doesn't have much in the way of lubricants, so I would have had to add something.

I did see lots of benefit in how much timing I could run with it though.

YMMV
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:09 PM   #22
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Thanks everyone for the great input, especialy Joe! I just found out there is a gas station that has e85 less that aile from my house. I just filled up with pump gas yesterday and I am going to try to get it out of there and put in my other car that is low on gas and go fill up with corn water:-).
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:36 PM   #23
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Rock on, Let us know what happens.

Joe, Thanks for more education. I didn't realize that the sensor was so smart! Thats actually pretty cool!!
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:37 PM   #24
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You can select all the cells. Click and drag the courser from say top left to bottom right.

Once that is done you a few little boxes will appear on the upper right hand side of the VE map. From there you can enter in a value and add or subtract however much you want to adjust.
I've tried this method when wanting to change just a single row (VE Table or spark table). When the boxes appear, pressing the + or - buttons don't inc or dec the values at all. = and * clear the selected cells. I searched for this in the megatune manual, but could not find any info. Is there a trick to this?

Thanks.

UGH. Nevermind. I never saw the little window to the right to enter in the value!!

Last edited by Costa; 08-28-2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Found Answer
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costa View Post
I've tried this method when wanting to change just a single row (VE Table or spark table). When the boxes appear, pressing the + or - buttons don't inc or dec the values at all. = and * clear the selected cells. I searched for this in the megatune manual, but could not find any info. Is there a trick to this?

Thanks.
You don't just click + or - to increase/decrease the values.

Click in the border and drag to enclose the cells you wish to change:


Then the cells are highlighted in dark green:


Enter the amount by which you want to change the values into the box in the upper left (circled in black below), then click + or - to tell the table to make the adjustment.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:12 PM   #26
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UGH. Nevermind. I never saw the little window to the right to enter in the value!!
Saw your response AFTER going through the effort to make screen captures and a tutorial for you. Oh well.

Of course entering "3 +" or whatever is the same result as just putting the desired value into the box and pressing =.

PS - Hooray for RPN input! Who other than me fondly remembers HP calculators that popularized this method?
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:33 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by evank View Post
Saw your response AFTER going through the effort to make screen captures and a tutorial for you. Oh well.

Of course entering "3 +" or whatever is the same result as just putting the desired value into the box and pressing =.

PS - Hooray for RPN input! Who other than me fondly remembers HP calculators that popularized this method?
Thanks for going through that!!! I've been messing with that for awhile and just thought it was a bug. The window to the right just blended in with the background.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:43 PM   #28
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It's funny because 12 months ago I was a clueless, intimidated noob like you.

Then I figured out that the MS learning curve is more about terminology and concepts, but it's not necessarily difficult. In fact some of you are complete idiots.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
PS - Hooray for RPN input! Who other than me fondly remembers HP calculators that popularized this method?
HP10C here.

There was one of those "You might be a geek if..." lists, and as I recall, one of the jokes was "If your calculator does not have an "=" button, and this makes perfect sense to you..." or something to that effect.

Incidentally, you can now get official emulators for several of the more popular ones for both Windows or iPhone, direct from HP: HP Calculator Software



Maybe the iPhone version would be OK, but I couldn't use the Windows one. Those calcs were the original thumb-operated keyboards.


Still, when the fancy TI calculators came out, with their built in pseudo-BASIC language, I was an immediate convert.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:44 PM   #30
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They'll have to pry the 41c from my cold dead hands.

I wonder if whoever designed the VE table GUI was really thinking about RPN or if it's just bad work.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:42 AM   #31
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I am still at a quarter of a tank! But i will drive a bit tomorrow and fill up with e85. Is there any benefit in advancing the timing a bit? If i do that should i do it all across the board? Like 2-3 degrees?
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:23 AM   #32
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I'm NOT a tuning expert....


Just from what I've learned in the past octane of E85 is anywhere from 100 to 110 which would allow you resistance to detonation and the advancement of timing. At that point, you'd likely wanna just fill up with E85 and take your car to a dyno and have it tweeked for best result.

An example.. Local tuning guy who owns a S/C cobalt runs 91 octane unleaded but 100% denatured alcohol -- Not for the cooling, but added octane. His timing map is freaking psycho. There are cells where hes running nearly 40 degrees of advance under heavy load. Upgraded to a whipple, HUGE heat exchanger, and runs about 26psi positive manifold which makes IIRC > 300fwhp..
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Old 08-30-2009, 03:13 PM   #33
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Made the switch today. I still had just about under a quarter of a tank of pump 93 and i added like 8 gallons of e85. Changed the map to 30% fuel and turned down the boost to 10 psi. The car runs very very smooth. The EGTs are much lower at a cruise i say 900 degrees and before it would be around 12000-13000. It runs a bit rich. WOT was like 9.5-10.6. Before it was as like 10.6-11.6. I still have some pump in there so i am going to leave it like that until i can fill up again will 100% e85( that is 85% proof e85).

I am very happy!
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:33 PM   #34
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ok i got a little problem here. I accidentally saved over my other map. I really dont want to by hand enter all the old numbers. How do i scale the map back 20%? I tried to scale by -1.2 but that does not work. I know there is a way to do it but i am horrible at math.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:51 PM   #35
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Scale by 0.8
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:10 PM   #36
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Thanks. I can not believe I passed college level calc.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:19 PM   #37
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I can't believe you managed to open the door to the classroom.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:22 PM   #38
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Lol, me too
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Old 08-30-2009, 10:33 PM   #39
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did a bit more driving today on e85 and i am really happy with how the car runs. I turned up the boost a bit and after logging it a couple of times i got 14.7psi from my ECU reading. Pretty damn good. At WOT i am running 10.6 or so. I know this is a bit rich but for some reason thats how much my tuner said i should run. It sounds a bit rich tho. I still need to work on the cruising afrs. They are at 13.5 and sometimes even close to 12.5 which is a total waste of gas. I am going to try to tune the cruse to like 15.5 or 16 to save on gas. If EGTs are high i will add a bit of fuel.

Now i need to figure out how to work on the timing. I want to advance it a little bit but i dont know how much.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:10 AM   #40
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so anyone can help me with the timing to tune for e85?
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