How is this engine even running??
 

So I finally got my idle issues sorted out (I think, I mean it idles ok) but after making a short run down the street (3- mi.) my fuel map looks..wrong. AFR was reading super high until veal started sorting things out. What could I have f-ed up so badly that I ended up here?
* engine is more or less stock, no turbo, stock injectors.
- why does auto tune seem to stop making ajdustments @ 5k?
req. fuel is 11.4.Attachment 109090Attachment 109091

Where did your base map come from? Id say it would be worth while to find a good base starting map. I started with the one right from DIY auto tune then did Autotune and manual adjustments from there.

Autotune has parameters under the Advanced tab which prevent it from changing the map too drastically or potentially limiting tuning around certain RPM or KPa. Also note how your Tach in the dash relates to auto tune. After reading a lot I've found that the stock tach could be quite off. I don't hit my 7k limiter till about 8.2k on the stock tach. This could explain why it "stops" at 5.5k

a random number generator apparently

It started as a base map from diy but I changed a lot on the maps. For instance, the base map lists the kpa range to 230. I am NA so I changed it to 105. I'm not too concerned with the tach. It seems to be fine. What I am concerned with is the 250 + fuel numbers.

So are those 255 numbers coming in after you ran VEautotune? You said your AFR read very high, Id assume you mean lean and that its putting those cells to 255?

What Wideband are you running and how do you have it calibrated in Tunerstudio?

Somewhat.All of the members I had were similar to maps I found others using. Then auto tune took over and this is what I have now.

Yes, after auto tune. I have a lc1. Numbers seamed normal when I was on the stock ecu. 11 under load, 15 cruise.

something is miscalibrated or not communicating. if that fuel map was correct you'd be flowing fuel out the exhaust

literally

are all 4 injectors connected and working?

Agreed. No way to see the wideband calibration from the MSQ but that would be the first place I'd check.

I agree.
Injectors- runs great on the stock ecu, so I guess they are working correctly.

What do you need to see the calibration?

When I set up the wideband, I connected to signal wire to the signal wire for the stock narrow 02. In the factory harness. Was this a no no.?

I don't think there is a way to without it being plugged into the car but someone else may be able to prove me wrong on that that has more experience.

But I think i found the cause. You warm up enrichment starts at 100% then goes down to 20% once its warmed up. This means its actually cutting 80% of the fuel when its warmed up causing your auto tune to have to pile in the fuel to make up for it. Mine is like a gradual slope down from 170% at -40deg to 100% at 180deg

This makes sense but if I raise it up to where you said, black smoke fills my neighborhood.

I'll try bringing all of the fuel numbers wayyyy down and then fix the warmup and see what happens.

Yeah, if you are going to cut the warmup back to where it should be, you are going to have to bring the fuel map back out of the stratosphere. Otherwise it have gas coming out of the exhaust since the warmup is multiplicative.

This is the software's way of telling you you fail.

Although you are absolutely right, that ^^^ provided zero insight as to why. Did anything in my settings besides the warmup enrichment appear to be horribly wrong?

Brain, in one of my other posts regarding the 02 you said that I could be getting an incorrect signal because I was using the factory signal wire in the loom, but you thought I was running the narrow band at the same time. I'm only running the wide band through this wire but is that still incorrect to do?

Is MS jiving with the reading of your wbo2?

the fuel map showing 255 suggests the MS thinks you are incredibly lean and keeps trying to add fuel to compensate. 255 is the upper limit value.

Yes the two gauges (wb/ ts) agree.

Until TS makes corrections, it is super lean. I listen closely for detonation and am not pushing the engine too hard.

so unless you're running the 255 value the car actually runs lean? I'd say you got a major issue with fuel pump or injectors then, or at least how you have MS controlling them, based on that.

a properly running car will have maybe a 50 point spread between idle and highest fuel ve value. maybe

Correct, If I use "normal" numbers, under 100 it goes super lean. It requires numbers in the 80's just to idle at 14.0 afr. Stock injectors and pump, all works great on stock ecu. So I have assume it is something I have all screwy in the settings.

correct.
or even possibly an exhaust leak pre-wbo2 totally screwing your afr reading

Exhaust is sealed tight..

Is your req_fuel set correctly?

shouldn't it be somewhere in the 12 range?

....even still though, 255 is almost triple what it should normally be

I think mine was 11.4 on stock injectors.

Sounds like that WUE is the issue. IIRC on MS WUE of 100% would be considered 0% by any sane and logical person, and numbers below 100% would be negative numbers. So if your WUE is 20% at normal running temp then its pulling 80% of the fuel, which is why autotune is maxing out the VE table. Copy and past the VE table from the basemap back into the tune and fix the WUE.

If everything else in the tune was setup correctly the injectors would have gone static well before reaching 255 on the VE table.

Req fuel calculator seams pretty straight forward.

Have you run the WUE analyzer?

Not this time. Should the engine always be on warm up enrichment? On the base map settings, it cuts off at about 175 which is less that full operating temp, so I ASSUMED it was for Warm Up Enrichment, not run this all the time enrichment.

im assuming you setup your map to go to 0% at 175°F and not 100%?

Correct.

I'll go home tonight and re do the fuel map and wue map and report back.

You're effectively telling the MS to remove 100% of fuel away from your total fueling and then you're autotuning and the MS is all like: holy shit this moron is making his car go so lean, lets try to help him from blowing it up since he couldnt' be bothered to use any of the great basemaps out there that would get this car 80% of the way to perfection at key-on.

hahahaha and there it is, Leafy was actually right


and now I'm curious what in the world made you look at the WUE, go "hmmmmmm, lets go ahead and completely alter it drastically" without trying to 1st figure out why it was the way it was in the 1st place.

oh well you live you learn.

protip: when learning to tune, baby steps are the only steps you should take. if you're altering something more than 10% at a time, you should thoroughly question your method

I think this is one of those time when you need to leavve your car alone and go back and reread the basics of tuning a car. Go through the MS guides and really pay close attention. Try not to be in such a hurry and keep from skipping around. When I first started tuning I would get really impatient too and it only caused me to use more time and get frustrated. After you read all of it read it again then start from scratch with the correct firmware and base map.

THIS X10!!!

Agreed.

You really gotta have a game plan/method/approach. changing multiple values in multiple places almost always results in frustration and waste of time.

I started with a dIY base map for 94-95. Right off the bat it was so rich I was almost passing out from carbon monoxide in my driveway. Like I said, I will re load it again and start over.

The base map cuts off enrichment at 175* my car runs at about 200. Not a lot different than what I have done.
My question regarding the map pressure on the base map still remains. Why does their non turbo base map have kpa pressures to 240???

I have read the mega manual quite a bit, some sections over and over and over.Some things are just different. From the first start of my install, following their directions exactly when trying to hook up my AIT sensor, per the 1995 1.8 section It said " connect to the yellow and brown wires" I do not have yellow or brown on mine. Differences like that make it hard for me to follow direct instruction.

its scaled to 230 cause they're lazy and it won't make a difference much and you'll be re-scaling anyway. their base map is just to get the car fired up and able to at least get on the road.

temp scaling is not what screwed you over, changing enrichment % from 100 to 0 on the low end is what we're pointing out to you.

I can't see the msq though since at work, so I'm just going off what was posted

So should I be hitting 100% at like 150 deg.F. and then run it out past 200 deg. F at 100%?

Something like that. 100% = no extra fuel, >100% = add fuel for warm up. You should not have it go below 100%, that definitely sounds like what is causing your problems.

10-4. Thanks. Thanks to all of you guys. I'm gonna get this thing right.

yep, 0* = 150 or 130 or whatever
tapering to 150* or 180* = 100. never less than 100, and the taper needs to e really smooth,

I think we setting the red car to turn off WUE at 148-150F. Steve, do you remember?


Shit was set up to carry on until 180F. With the Racer Re-route, damn car never even got that hot, so that was.... *awesome*

Yeah one of the downfalls of the Reverant ECU is that the WUE was perfect out of the box, so I never learned how to tune it.

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to tuning the truck, I'll actually have to learn all that shit.

Thats debatable. Though it is very good WUE changes depending on several values in your tune. I save the fine tuning of WUE till Im practically done tuning. Usually Ill do everything but WUE and wait till the next morning and tune it while the car warms up.

Mine turns off around 155-160 cause I run more fuel at idle to help with hot restarts at 160+ and use EGO to lean it out. With seq Im warming up at 14.3-14.7 then idle at 14.5-15.3ish

Cant you tune the hot restart leanness out with ASE, thats on a timer isnt it?

Yeah but you have to run it for a lot of time. I still run ASE but as soon as it kicks off EGO takes over. Not necessarily the best method but it works good for me.

Started again with a base map from DIY, smoked out my whole neighborhood. Went fo a short drive to let autotune take over for a bit. Back to the same place I was three weeks ago with an idle that I cannot get below 2200. I am back on open loop now.

I made a block of the timing at twelve just to make sure that I wasnt getting any influence from other cells.

Idles at 13.9 AFR @2200 rpm.
Attachment 109283

Attachment 109284

Well at least your fuel map looks somewhat normal.
What happens if you go into idle valve test mode and close the valve completely?
You might have to close your idle screw a bunch.

I'll try and see what I get.

Well your fuel mad a major improvement but still got a ways to go no fear. let me dig for that post hornetball wrote that explains tuning idle well