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Old 05-04-2009, 03:22 AM   #1
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Default how to ms a 99

hi im trying to find a way on going ms standalone in my 99 miata and there is not a whole lot of info like for you luck 90 to 97 owners. so if any one can give me a hand a list or knows how to build a ms ecu for a 99 please let me know i need one. so help me the go mega squirts
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:36 AM   #2
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The reason there is not too much info is because there are not that many out there that are standalone 99's. There are parallel installs, and a few people have adapted circuits allowing them to control alternator/etc with a standalone ms, but those people are few.
Why do you want specifically standalone on a 99? why not run it parallel? just wondering

I was all hyped up to run ms on my 00 for the longest time. Researched til my brain hurt. Its possible but you better be electronics smart. I was about to take the plunge but SOO many threads out there with people not knowing wtf to do, stuck, not working, having problems, etc etc etc that I got scared and just got an adaptronic. pnp and has some cool features built in but at a hefty premium price wise. Good luck to you
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:39 AM   #3
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i have been looking at these two but not sure which one will work with my car. MegaSquirt II Programmable EFI System PCB3.57 - Complete Assembled Unit DIYAutoTune.com
or
MegaSquirt II Engine Management System w/ PCB3 - Complete Assembled Unit DIYAutoTune.com

also do i need to add any thing to make them work with the 99 or do i jest need to wire the in mega squirts
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:45 AM   #4
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i what standalone so i can tune target air fuels and piggy back i have been reading to that you will never be able to unlock all the usable power with the piggy back plus i want to run cams. also people just seam to have problems with the piggy backs for some reason like with the aem f/ic and for the price of the pre built ms im willing to try i have a older alternator from my old miata to use and i also work at a performance shop so dyno time for me is free to tune and play around on a Sunday. i also want a launch control for when i go down to English town drag track i don't do a lot of autocross mostly drag racing and shutting up kids in there mustangs and bmws around here lol
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:03 AM   #5
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Megasquirt is not a piggy back. A piggy back is where the signal is intercepted from the original ECU and then modified. A PARALLEL megasquirt install lets the MS take control of the fuel and spark (and other bits of the engine like VICS) directly but leaves the stock ECU to take care of other complicated crap like the charge regulation on the NB and the idle and the AC.

You can unlock all of the power possible with a parallel install.

But MS cannot control VVT (I assume that is what you meant by "I want to run cams") The best you can hope for is an RPM switch that will change the cams from fully retarded to fully advanced at a certain RPM (you could even use 2 RPM switches and make it go from fully retarded to advanced to retarded again!)

Adaptronic I believe does have VVT support and whole lot of other goodies. It also doesn't require soldering which MS does LOTS. If you think you can pull it off then go MS you will enjoy the challenge but it could also turn into your worst nightmare if you are a bit shy with wiring.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:11 AM   #6
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i dont have vvt only 01 and up have vvt when i said i want to run cams i was talking about running bigger to were i need to see the icv and other stuff on start up i have a piggy back at the moment but its shitty as hell and going in and out of boost is just sloppy and tuning it is just annoying also i dont have ac in my miata. plus back when i was building my car every one here kept telling my you need to get standalone because the link piggy back i have now is crap. plus i had the pnp ms in my old miata before i sold it to a friend who ended up totaling the car

here are want to run stage 2 or 3 cams by integral

Stage 2 257 217.3 .370" (9.40 mm)
Stage 3 263 223.9 .385" (9.78 mm)
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:39 AM   #7
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Thats cool. All I was saying is that from a performance point of view there is no difference between a parallel and a full standalone install, just saves you a load of ball ache.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:00 AM   #8
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i hear what your sayin i just keep getting told different stuff every time. one guy say go standalone and next i ask about it and people are like dont bother just go piggy back
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:04 AM   #9
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BTW were you planning on running stock sensors or just slap a 94CAS on the back of the head?
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:20 AM   #10
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i want to run stock sensors i replace every thing under my hood and i mean every thing that runs the motor built motor and all
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:00 AM   #11
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A couple of folks on the forum have managed to build a working MS on stock '99-00 sensors, but you can count them one one hand. All information is 'somewhere' on the forum, but very well hidden in numerous long threads (with lots of misinformation as well).
A couple guys start asking questions and promise to do a how-to once theirs is finished, but I have yet to see the first one.
So, I'm doing a how-to while I'm building the MS. See here, it might be of help.
Note that my build is complete, but I have a problem getting an rpm reading, so don't consider my how-to yet as 100% correct. I'm figuring out if it's a hardware or software error.
If I can't get an rpm reading, I guess I'll switch to a 36-1 wheel or so. Don't want to run a 90-97 CAS.

Edit: The problem was the JimStim. I have the 2 dot version which has wrong software in it.

Last edited by WestfieldMX5; 05-08-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:28 AM   #12
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To MegaSquirt a '99, you want to start with an MS2 CPU on a Rev 3.0 PCB.

There are really only three things which are different on a '99-'00, relative to a '90-'97. They are the VICS, the alternator, and the use of separate cam/crank sensors.

The sensors are easy. They have a different signal pattern from the earlier CAS which only the MS2 CPU supports, but it's no harder to work with them. There are a couple of different circuit designs in This Thread which deal with the '99+ sensor inputs, and how to wire them to the MS. The one designed by Abe is meant for standalone, Jason's assumes a parallel install but can go standalone by adding the two pullup resistors.


VICS is also easy. Follow the instructions to install a relay driver modkit and use a relay to control the VICS based upon RPM.


Making the alternator work is slightly less well documented, so you may need to do a tad bit of research, but here's a starter: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21621/


Add in this tutorial on building a better spark output driver, and you have basically a complete "how-to" for building a standalone '99-'00 MS.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
All information is 'somewhere' on the forum, but very well hidden
Most of it is cleverly hidden in the sticky at the top of the MS subforum entitled SUPER Important Megasquirt Threads, which is where I got all the links that I posted in the previous message.

I'm not sure how much more obvious we can make the location of this information, short of writing the data out to 5" floppy disks, folding them over once, and then shoving them up everyone's *******, sideways, with no lubricant.

By the way, Frank, I'm liking your Westfield build a lot!
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:13 AM   #14
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Most is indeed available in that sticky, but it's mainly for 90-97 or 99 with CAS. It's not obvious to build a 99 on stock sensors, even with that information. At least not for me it wasn't (isn't).

Thx, it took me exactly 1 year to get the paperwork sorted out, but since last week, I can finally drive it legally on the road .
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
Most is indeed available in that sticky, but it's mainly for 90-97 or 99 with CAS. It's not obvious to build a 99 on stock sensors, even with that information. At least not for me it wasn't (isn't).
I'm not sure I understand the confusion. One is labeled "Abe's Super-Awesome NB Cam & Crank Input Circuit" which suggests that it describes how to set up the crank and cam sensor inputs for an NB, another is labeled "Alternator Control for Standalone NB configuration" which suggests that it's about making the alternator work in an NB with a standalone MS, one is labeled "Improved Spark Output drivers" and states clearly in the second sentence that it's for MS1 and MS2, all years.

About the only thing lacking is a complete external wiring diagram for every single year, though even that is covered to a degree in "How to make and install your own Diy MS", and besides that should be intuitively obvious to anyone in possession of the factory wiring diagram and having a basic grasp of DC electronics. Someone who can't figure out that part on their own probably shouldn't be building a MegaSquirt in the first place.

Incidentally, I just noticed that on your homepage, you've got a really stellar writeup (including proto area layout) for all the necessities. I think I need to re-organize the alternator control writeup to get it down to just Jason's circuit and your layout. Mind if I abscond with some of the other info from your web page?

Quote:
Thx, it took me exactly 1 year to get the paperwork sorted out, but since last week, I can finally drive it legally on the road .
I'm not kidding- seeing your car makes me want to get off my *** and build one for myself. The thing that's killing me is that I really want to do a motorcycle-powered car, yet the cost of the MegaBusa kit, for reasons that escape me, is US$7,000 higher than the MX5 kit. I realize that they're including a differential and reverser, but it seems high. I'm thinking perhaps of a hybrid build, using the MX5 kit with a Mazda differential and brakes, and sourcing the reverser independently. Fitting a turbo to a 'Busa engine should be an interesting challenge. It's still quite appealing though. In addition to being a big fan of sequential gearboxes (and the sound of that motor turning at 11,000 RPM) the MegaBusa is over 100kg lighter than the MX5-based car.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:01 PM   #16
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i have one of the older alternators and i deleted my vics so all i would need to build is the input signal modifier. so if i were to buy the pre built ones what would i need from what i listed above. also what is the two pull up resistors for
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:21 PM   #17
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You'd need to build the two-channel ignition input. The pullup resistors I mention are specific to JasonC's implementation, as his design was originally intended for a parallel install where the stock ECU provides the pullup. Without the stock ECU, you need to apply a pullup within the MS. It should make sense when you read the whole thread. Abe's implementation of the circuit already has the pullups.

You'll need to build the Improved Spark Output drivers modification to drive the ignition coils.

If you have A/C, you'll need to read that section.

You'll need to do the "purple box" mod in step 62 of the assembly instructions to install a larger transistor to drive the IAC valve. That will require this modkit.

Last, you'll need a relay driver modkit to drive the cooling fan.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:36 PM   #18
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thanks for the help joe. so all of the above and the pre built ms2 pcb3.0 and i should be set to wire it in and run ms or do i need to built the ms2 pcb3.0 as a kit. this is it for my questions.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:47 PM   #19
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You can purchase a pre-assembled MS2 and modify it as needed. You'll have to remove a couple of jumper wires that come standard (from the four IAC pins) as well as the TechSelect and TSel jumpers. No more than a couple minutes' work. You'll also need to remove those components listed as "do not install" in the purple box at step 62 when you fit the IAC mod. Don't bother trying to be gentle with Q4 and Q20 as you remove them, just cut 'em off at the legs and remove the pins from the board individually.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You'd need to build the two-channel ignition input. The pullup resistors I mention are specific to JasonC's implementation, as his design was originally intended for a parallel install where the stock ECU provides the pullup. Without the stock ECU, you need to apply a pullup within the MS. It should make sense when you read the whole thread. Abe's implementation of the circuit already has the pullups.


which schematics do you recommend for the two channel ignition input.
just to make sure i use the best one but with how easy it is looking to go ms i think ill be buying my ms2 within the week
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