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Install those injectors as soon as possible, if they are EV14s they will be able to let your car idle much better and you won't have to re-tune as much fuel table stuff when you slap the turbo on.
Every day I resist the urge to buy FF640CC injectors after seeing how well they make a 1.6 idle.
Install those injectors as soon as possible, if they are EV14s they will be able to let your car idle much better and you won't have to re-tune as much fuel table stuff when you slap the turbo on.
Every day I resist the urge to buy FF640CC injectors after seeing how well they make a 1.6 idle.
They are flowforce 640s! I like that they come with a little tube of lubrication for the o-rings, I'm always never sure what lubricant to use for things.
This isn't really tuning related, but do you have any tips on getting the upper part of the intake manifold back on? For some reason it will go in the dowel closest to the firewall, but will not seat at all on the one toward the throttle body.
EDIT: Just got it on. It was hitting the fuel rail harness, and was a bit of a tight fit, but I was able to tilt it first towards the harness, and then kind of squeeze it into the dowel at which point it seated.
So I just got the new injectors in and I’m now changing my TunerStudio settings to work with the new injectors. I’ve watched a few videos, and they all seem to use a flow rate between 640 to 660. However, when I use the calculator on the Flowforce website, I get a value of 765 to use. Should I be using that 765 value, or my average from the card received from Flowforce of 651?
EDIT: So, I just gave it a try with both 765 and 651, and the car hardly starts, revs up a bit and then dies. I checked all connections and everything looks to be hooked up, so I'm not sure where that is occurring. I took a log and will upload my current tune with the changes I made for the injectors.
765 should be correct, your deadtimes are entered correctly, should just be normal idle tuning from there. Its either too little or too much fuel in your VE table in the areas its hitting + ASE + WUE when the car stalls. Since it starts I would just start with those settings and try more or less fuel
765 should be correct, your deadtimes are entered correctly, should just be normal idle tuning from there. Its either too little or too much fuel in your VE table in the areas its hitting + ASE + WUE when the car stalls. Since it starts I would just start with those settings and try more or less fuel
Okay thanks! I’ll play around with it and see what happens.
Turns out there wasn't enough fuel across the whole VE table. I had to add a ton of fuel all across the table to get it to run and start, and then also had to add some in WUE. Is that normal with larger injectors? My tune is still a little rough and I need to tune it more, but it drives! I did stop using VEAL because I noticed its pulling fuel in places it shouldn't be...I will have an area where the car is going lean but then VEAL pulls fuel instead of adding it, or it doesn't add enough. So, I've been tuning by hand so far.
Yeah that's pretty standard with bigger injectors. Good luck with the tuning
Thank you! I will let you know if I run into any issues along the way. I really appreciate all your help so far, there is no way I could have done this alone.
I already have some questions, if you're fine with answering lol! I went out to do some tuning just now, and I noticed three things that I'm not sure why they're occurring and was wondering if you may have some insight on them.
1.) So I tried the TPS averaging lag factor of 95 that you have, and it was still very jerky coming out of and into overrun, as well as when suddenly giving the car throttle. I decided to mess around with that value some more, and noticed that at the lower value of 50 that I set it to, things were definitely smoother, but still not quite there. Am I going to run into any issues running a value that low? Is it better to have a higher value, or is it not much of an issue whether it is high or low?
2.) I am noticing a short lean spike during partial throttle acceleration still. This lean spike varies from 15.5 AFR to 16.7 AFR. You can see this lean spike in the log from 429.482s to 430.818s. Is that a concern, or is it pretty normal? I have a feeling it may be my accel enrich settings, but if it isn't harmful then I'm not too worried about it. If you have my fuel table next to the graphs as well, you can see how the pointer in the fuel VE table goes in a zigzag pattern as it is going up in that range of time as well.
3.) This takes me into my third question, which goes back to the jerkiness. I remember you mentioned to keep the VE values in that range closer, within 1-3 VE of each other. So, thats what I did, and it did improve slightly, but it was still producing that kind of zigzag pattern. This can be seen from 4654.225s to 4658.849s. You can also see that lean spike again in between that range during accel. It also was still jerking around more than I would like while coming in and out of overrun and while giving it that sudden burst of throttle. The car would still buck back and forth before smoothing out. Any idea what else I can try here to improve it?
Thanks again for any help you can give me! I'm going to try and tune a lot tomorrow, since Sunday I will be out of town for a week so won't have the chance to do anything until I get back (if there is no salt down on the ground).
EDIT: For some reason, my log won't upload so I will find a way to get it uploaded
1) Use the 50 lag factor if it works better, just wanted to see if it had a part in the lag you experienced.
2) AFR value logged vs AE doesn't matter, what matters is the feel of the throttle and if the car likes it. If your car goes slightly lean for a few miliseconds and the car is fine with it and doesn't lag or anything, its completely fine.
3) Looking at your VE Table, I am starting to think the lag is due to a lack of resolution down near your cruising kPA (between 40-25 kPA) as the car will sit around the 30-35 region, if the car requires tons more fuel at 40 kPA than 25 kPA, the interpolation between the two won't be as smooth (I think) and VEAL may be unable to properly tune the regions not covered there.
I have these rows around low load cruise
40 - 35 - 25 - 19
While you only have 40 - 25 - 20, if the jerkiness is around 33 kPAish, you may want to consider adding a row in between 25 and 40, like 32 or 33 and fill that column out as well. You can remove the 220 kPA Row OR remove the 210 kPA row to add the new column. There is the table rescaling thingy in TS to quickly do this, the bottom left button. I would suggest something like this. Maybe even remove the 7500 RPM column and add in an 850 RPM column for idle VE.
1) Use the 50 lag factor if it works better, just wanted to see if it had a part in the lag you experienced.
2) AFR value logged vs AE doesn't matter, what matters is the feel of the throttle and if the car likes it. If your car goes slightly lean for a few miliseconds and the car is fine with it and doesn't lag or anything, its completely fine.
3) Looking at your VE Table, I am starting to think the lag is due to a lack of resolution down near your cruising kPA (between 40-25 kPA) as the car will sit around the 30-35 region, if the car requires tons more fuel at 40 kPA than 25 kPA, the interpolation between the two won't be as smooth (I think) and VEAL may be unable to properly tune the regions not covered there.
I have these rows around low load cruise
40 - 35 - 25 - 19
While you only have 40 - 25 - 20, if the jerkiness is around 33 kPAish, you may want to consider adding a row in between 25 and 40, like 32 or 33 and fill that column out as well. You can remove the 220 kPA Row OR remove the 210 kPA row to add the new column. There is the table rescaling thingy in TS to quickly do this, the bottom left button. I would suggest something like this. Maybe even remove the 7500 RPM column and add in an 850 RPM column for idle VE.
Awesome thank you! Yes, the car doesn’t lag or anything when it has the slight lean spike...it lasts maybe 1-2 seconds, but then it starts to level back out toward the AFR target. Just wanted to make sure it wasn’t something to worry too much about.
I will scale the VE table with 33kPa and see how it goes! The reason I have it going to 220kPa is for future boost. I’m guessing the interpolation can have a wider range at higher kPa values? For example removing the 210kPa won’t be such a big deal later on when boosting?
So I took it out for some tuning again with the new kPa scale in my fuel table, and it did help smooth it out some more. I am still getting some pretty noticeable bucking while accelerating at times though. It seems to happen most when I am cruising and then decide to give it a lot of throttle at once, or when in overrun and get back on the throttle quick. Not sure if thats normal behavior or not, but it really jerks the car around. I wish it was possible to have you feel how its acting, lol! I'm not exactly sure how to physically describe it, besides that when giving it that jab of the throttle, the car jerks back and forth and the exhaust note changes from "Brrrrr" to "BrrrRRRrrrRRRrRRRrrrr"...I know, its a weird explanation, but thats the best way I could describe it. The pointer on the fuel VE table also zig-zags, as usual when than jerking motion comes on. Here is a log I took as well while tuning. You can see the condition described above from 1972.384s to 1977.040s.
Any ideas on what else I can try? I appreciate it a lot!
11-17-2020, 06:37 PM
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