You're fighting a losing battle. lol
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 945985)
You're fighting a losing battle. lol
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just go to the injector dynamics page. they do extensive testing on their injectors.
didn't exactly read the whole thing, but looks something like FIC, or someone selling FIC injectors tried passing off ID data sheets as their own The Same as Injector Dynamics But Cheaper I mean, if ID was the same as everyone else, why try to use their data? why try to say same as ID? unless they actually are better? |
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Six years ago I got one of those silly $18 Megan racing pressure regulators off eBay so I could run my NB injectors at 60psi. The gauge failed, but the regulator Still works great
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Originally Posted by bmxfuel007
(Post 946115)
just go to the injector dynamics page. they do extensive testing on their injectors.
didn't exactly read the whole thing, but looks something like FIC, or someone selling FIC injectors tried passing off ID data sheets as their own The Same as Injector Dynamics But Cheaper I mean, if ID was the same as everyone else, why try to use their data? why try to say same as ID? unless they actually are better? I understand the benefit of using a flow matched set if the stock injectors had significantly different flow rates. What I dispute is the notion that a modified injector performs better than the stock injector upon which it is based up to the rated flow rate of the stock injector. Would a flow matched set of of modified 52# bosch injectors perform better than a flow matched set of unmodified 52# bosch injectors up to the 52# rating? |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by sturovo
(Post 946160)
Would a flow matched set of of modified 52# bosch injectors perform better than a flow matched set of unmodified 52# bosch injectors up to the 52# rating? why cant you read? There are lots of rumors floating around that other people have the same injectors as our ID2000, they're just not matched by the same process. This is correct, except the rest of the rumor is that the consistency from Bosch is so good that our dynamic matching process doesn't have any benefit. This is correct, except the rest of the rumor is that the consistency from Bosch is so good that our dynamic matching process doesn't have any benefit. The chart below shows flow deviation vs. pulsewidth for every 10th injector out of a batch. You can see that while static flow variance is pretty good, there is quite a spread at 2msec pulsewidth, where much of the life of the injector is spent and where you really see and feel a difference from cylinder to cylinder variations. About a 2% spread at static flow but as much as a 13% spread at 2msec. Do you think a 13% variance from cylinder to cylinder at idle and part throttle will make a difference in how a car runs? https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1351956648 |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 946165)
why cant you read?
The graph shows the benefit of flow matching. It does not show that modified injectors perform better than unmodified ones. |
Show us some "unmodified" 1000cc injectors
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 946174)
Show us some "unmodified" 1000cc injectors
EV14, 957 CC, 12 ohm, Jet -liitin, keskipitkä runko ala-adapterilla - Suuttimet ja niiden lisäosat Suuttimet 750 - 1200 cc/min (14mm) |
I've no idea what that site says, besides "unmodified". What cars does that come on? Can you find that injector on a USA site that we all know/trust?
Reason for all this is that we know the supposedly "modified" ID's are fantastic. Your argument is that they might be better prior to said modification. You've yet to post any data showing this to be true. So I'm really not sure where to go from here. Have you seen any direct comparison tests? Data? Post that up. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 946183)
I've no idea what that site says, besides "unmodified". What cars does that come on? Can you find that injector on a USA site that we all know/trust?
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 946183)
supposedly "modified"
Modified Stock Injectors - Import Tuner Magazine |
Why bother with the Euro injectors though? Current conversion rates they'd work out to like $450 before shipping anyways, which I'd assume to be substantial given the international distance.
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Originally Posted by SJP0tato
(Post 946187)
Why bother with the Euro injectors though? Current conversion rates they'd work out to like $450 before shipping anyways, which I'd assume to be substantial given the international distance.
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Originally Posted by sturovo
(Post 946166)
It does not show that modified injectors perform better than unmodified ones.
Even if the flow pattern is better on an unmodified EV14, you would need to buy several dozen injectors and then have them all matched to get the same low-speed driveability of a set of ID injectors. If you're not going to do that, there's no point in comparing the two. |
Just out of curiosity, would you say that OEM injectors might display less variability? Or is this something that the OEMs end up designing around as well? I don't imagine injectors are matched for econoboxes or Miatas for that matter.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 946448)
Even if the flow pattern is better on an unmodified EV14.
Injector performance has as much to do with fuel atomization and vectoring as with controlling the quantity of fuel delivered. Injectors with the atomizing plate removed will have a hard time matching the atomizing and vectoring performance of stock injectors. Flow matching sounds nice. I wonder why none of the auto makers do it. They must not care about low speed driveability. The data on that chart looks odd, where is the control line? |
all I can say is my ID1000's idle better than my stock injectors, and even the five-0 550's and 850's that I've tried out. This is after trying to tune my idle for hours on each set of injectors. The ID1000's were either just that much easier to tune, or maybe I had that much more practice tuning idle from the previous injectors
but anyway, do ID's still have the atomizing plate or no? I know my IDs looked way different than my five-o's. OEMs don't do a lot things not because they don't care, but because it would cost too much time, which equals $. That's my assumption also, that chart doesn't need a control line, as there isn't a "control". It's just to prove even among the injectors that they get from Bosch, there is a 13% variance at around Idle. At flow, it shows around a 2% spread (just repeated what it says right above the chart...) |
Originally Posted by sturovo
(Post 946457)
^This
Injector performance has as much to do with fuel atomization and vectoring as with controlling the quantity of fuel delivered. Injectors with the atomizing plate removed will have a hard time matching the atomizing and vectoring performance of stock injectors. Flow matching sounds nice. I wonder why none of the auto makers do it. They must not care about low speed driveability. The data on that chart looks odd, where is the control line? Why don't OEMs do it? The bean counters won't let them. |
Spurred on by encouragement and support ;)
I tested 4 ev14 injectors that I modified and compared them to an unmodified one. -The flow rate more than doubled jumping to around 1000cc -The flow pattern of the stock injector was a narrow cone angle as opposed to being split in two which is typical for miata injectors with a 4 hole atomizing plate. (These particular ev14s were used in some single intake valve Ford applications.) -The flow rates of each of the 4 injectors I modified are very similar. It looks like ev14 injectors can retain decent performance after being modified. (I will test more when I borrow some graduated cylinders and a high speed camera.) |
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