ITT: MS3X VVT settings and tuning - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-03-2014, 09:08 PM   #81
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If you're JUST plain trying to get it in a different spot, slip the cam belt a spot, rotate cam gear, etc.. :-)
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:32 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
If you're JUST plain trying to get it in a different spot, slip the cam belt a spot, rotate cam gear, etc.. :-)
Block decked which retard the cams 13 degrees, making my "zero" to -13. And my cam plays nicer with some retard at lower rpm, and I only advance a few degrees up high, i.e. not a OEM case.

The VVTuner was a little more straight forward and reported -13 with the OCV disconnected, but it did not allow negative values as targets...

All I'm asking for is a value to set the zero. All VVTs in the world cannot have a sweep of only advance, so setting a zero would make the tables less confusing for all.

Being able to use absolute values in the tables simplify things, or should we change the ignition table to be relative to something too?
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:34 AM   #83
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0 advance = full retard.
See my previous post.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:53 PM   #84
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Ben,
Is there any chance of seeing a decoder for other wheels - such as the OEM Mazda Protege one, the SuperMiata, etc?

Since the released source code and the current code are no longer one in the same, doing development is a big PITA, no one can add their own contribution without giving up the hard work of the MS coders.....
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:22 PM   #85
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Quote:
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0 advance = full retard.
See my previous post.
YES for MS3x it is, but are you proud of that logic, and should it be that way, forever, for any future ECU?
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:17 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Ben,
Is there any chance of seeing a decoder for other wheels - such as the OEM Mazda Protege one, the SuperMiata, etc?

Since the released source code and the current code are no longer one in the same, doing development is a big PITA, no one can add their own contribution without giving up the hard work of the MS coders.....
Isn't protege just a 36-1? IE, it's not a special decoder. SuperMiata decoders do not currently exist. Source code including the FM 36-2 with NB cam trigger has been released.

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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
YES for MS3x it is, but are you proud of that logic, and should it be that way, forever, for any future ECU?
Yes -- what exactly is the problem?
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:50 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Yes -- what exactly is the problem?
Absolute values are much easier to discuss and compare, e.g. ignition advance.
"13 means zero" seems like an conversion better placed in software than in my head.

There must be more VVT setups than mine that have max retard at negative (and not only a degree or two). Or is the Miata VVT the only one the MS3x can control?
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:27 PM   #88
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You're continuing to not make sense.

When not acted upon, the Miata VVT cam is at 0 or "fully retarded". This is 0. Not a negative number. 0 does not reside arbitrarily somewhere between this 0 and whatever maximum advance. When oil pressure is built up against the spool valve by modulating the oil control valve solenoid, the cam is commanded to advance.

MS3 controls many different VVT setups. Most work exactly the same way as the BP6D does. However I don't see the relevancy.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:58 PM   #89
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The MS3 code lets you specify minimum and maximum advance, which are in numbers relative to whatever the decoder uses as a zero point (it varies depending on the decoder). Once those are entered, zero advance in the table is minimum advance.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:02 PM   #90
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Is it really that hard to see the demand for an offset to get real absolute values in the target table?
Why is there a whole procedure to get the absolute timing right? It could be good enough to have timing relative to something unique for every engine, since the optimum table is unique anyway.

Most BP6D have 47 degree sweep, some 0-47, some -2-45, and mine have -13-34.

Why would a value in the settings to make the targets absolute be fundamentally wrong?
MS is usually a nerdy setup, and settling for a "relative to whatever" seems odd, unless the CPU /memory is cramped.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:49 PM   #91
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Maybe I'm stupid but when I tuned my VVT, once I set the start and end angles, the table was simply a range of numbers from 0-47.

The offset is built into the setup. You enter the angle where retard is at minimum, say 275 degrees, and then you set the maximum angle and then the table sorta works itself out.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:10 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Maybe I'm stupid but when I tuned my VVT, once I set the start and end angles, the table was simply a range of numbers from 0-47.
Yes, the most common sweep is 0-47. But take some out from the block and/or head and the minimum advance will be a few degrees retarded (negative advance).
The table is not smart at all, it's simply degrees relative to the minimum advance, regardless if that's 0, 7, -13, -45 or whatever degrees absolute.
Simple coding but poor usage.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:16 AM   #93
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I'm not sure you're seeing the forest in the trees.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:25 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
Is it really that hard to see the demand for an offset to get real absolute values in the target table?
What, precisely, would be the zero mark on an absolute scale?

If it was relative to the cam grind, would it change with the lobe center line?
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:52 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post

What, precisely, would be the zero mark on an absolute scale?

If it was relative to the cam grind, would it change with the lobe center line?
Sure, then let me set what I want.
In my case, 257 min 304 max, and I'd like "zero" at 270 (meaning 105 degrees on the cam).
Just one box allowing a value between min and max. Default should be the min value and it does not need to be enabled without action.
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:34 AM   #96
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Bumping this because I'm back to tuning VVT with a different MS3, and it goes bananas past about 4k rpm. Hits target great, and works really good before 4k for the most part, and then just starts bouncing. Bumped PID values up and down and nothing seems to make it stop osciallating hard up top. Added as much as 130 D , and nothing. Thoughts?

What's interesting is that this time around, with the same engine, but different MS3, I'm not getting nearly ANY of the cold bucking the previous had. Car runs smooth as butter for the most part.

Just have this high rpm VVT cam angle oscillation
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:38 AM   #97
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Post screenshot of log showing the oscillation.
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:40 AM   #98
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Yes sir, will do right after work. Basically shows good smooth operation til about 3500-4000, then shoots up and down between 30*-20* literally like a saw. And looking at the VVT Angle % gauge, it looks like its having a seizure.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:19 PM   #99
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This is irrelevant to Vlad's issue, but I figured since I have a decently running VVT tune, I'd post up the settings for y'all.

Please give me any input, don't know what half of this does, but it made a healthy 135hp, and 125ft/lbs, so I have to assume it's working.



Attached Thumbnails
ITT: MS3X VVT settings and tuning-vvtsettings_zps82d395fc.jpg   ITT: MS3X VVT settings and tuning-vvttable_zps0308c702.jpg  
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Old 11-11-2014, 07:28 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
This is irrelevant to Vlad's issue, but I figured since I have a decently running VVT tune, I'd post up the settings for y'all.

Please give me any input, don't know what half of this does, but it made a healthy 135hp, and 125ft/lbs, so I have to assume it's working.



Have you logged the VVT data to see how closely it is following the table?

That looks like the VVT table from DIYPNP? I tried that type of table but ended up with small changes in MAP while in steady state cruise causing the targeted VVT angle to start oscillating. It then would cause a noticeable on/off sensation that I could feel in the drive train.

I ended up varying angle only by RPM under about 65Kpa and over 20Kpa. That made for a more steady angle at cruise.

I have similar settings for the PID parameters. They are working okay, but I do start to get some oscillations after it idles for more than a few minutes. Any hints on tuning that out would be great.

BTW... Sorry I don't have any ideas about oscillations over 4000rpm.
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