Map for MSPNP on a 1993 w/GReddy ++
 

Getting ready to start up my 1993 1.6 tomorrow, and I'm looking for a working map for my setup.
If anyone has something that will work for this, I would be very grateful.

The setup:

1.6 engine
Mitsubishi TD04-G15 (Standard GReddy charger)
RC 550cc Injectors
Intercooler
MSPNP
FM Dual feed fuel rail
TurboXS boost controller at about.. 1 bar? :)

If you need more info, feel free to ask.
Getting a working map will save me a lot of time, so this would be of great help.

-Morten

The answer to your question is:


There is NO such thing. Get a base map, and tune according to YOUR set up. Unless you want your shit to fail.

Well, my "tuner" has told me otherwise.
And he's been doing this for so long, I actually trust him.

He himself used the FMII map for a similar setup, and he gained 10hk after he went on the dyno.
Hence, he didn't need to change much..

well then get a map from your "tuner" and you can makes as much "hk's" as you want!!

Sorry, rwhp.

No need to be rude, people disagree on stuff, and if there was only constants in tuning I'm pretty fucking sure there would be a book called "Here's how you tune every time".
I'm here to get second opinions, so don't give me shit if you don't agree with what others tell me.

I take everything into consideration, but I can't say "ok" after one reply when I have others telling me otherwise.

So please, stay on track.

im suprised that the others have not jumped in here yet...

They would have started off with this:

"Use the fucken search button"

and

"use DIY autotunes base map, then adjust the req fuel for your injectors to get something running"

people here are expected to care about their car enough that they will put forth the effort to do some reserch themselves before they ask questions, people will not spoon feed you every single answer, mainly because the questions you have have been asked several times before.

also, most people that make statements such as "my tuner says" are usullay asking questions the week after their tuneing session, asking why the car is runnign like shit, when if they had done reserch on the specifics that the miata engine has, that their experenced tuner did not think of

True, I could have just used Google. Can't expect to use a forum to ask questions, now can I.

For the record, the car hasn't been started yet, and the guy helping me out (who's been tuning his own Miata for 7 years now) asked me to get a map since he's had great success using it before.

And this thread can be locked or deleted, I've never experienced such rudeness in a Miata forum, and I surely won't return.
The answer I got was to stay the fuck away from this place.

Really? Your "tuner" told you that?

I would NOT let that guy touch my map.

Technically, that was my first response.

sad thing is the other forums will just spoon feed you...

Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime

Good, if your not willing to put forth the effort to even try, this forum is better off without you.

Your mentality is the reason why the other miata forums have the stereotypes they do, and if you had used the search button, in the time that you have wasted making a post, and reading through the results, or folowed the stickeys ( that are there for a reason) you would have learned a bit and we never would have had to make a repost of something that has been askes several times

Quoted before ninja edit. If you can't help yourself well what can anyone else possibly do. Your question rolls by the board very often. A little search would've avoid this thread. However, in light that you ask for advice then don't take the advice given I'll say you're making a good decision leaving.

Hopefully you "tuner" doesn't fuck your shit.

The members here are just telling it like it is, really. I mean, I could give you my .msq from immediately after my dyno session (or you would find it in my dyno thread, by searching for threads started by me with the word "dyno" in them), but it was made for MY engine. Who knows what it might do to yours? Maybe my ignition timing would be too aggressive, maybe my fuel would be way too rich (and it would be, since I'm using 460cc injectors), etc.

Thing about the FMII map (I'm assuming a map for a Hydra, then) is that FM provides these maps to their consumers based on a known quantity - their kit. Many FM customers buy their FMII, install it, and drive. It is intended to be the whole package, so they can provide maps.

Your MSPNP, OTOH, is meant for a 1.6 liter Miata with any number of a combination of turbos, injectors, exhausts, intercoolers, etc. You're going to have a much harder time finding a repository of premade maps for it, that's where the basemap comes in. You said you just want to get the car running.. that's what the basemap's for. Take the basemap, adjust req. fuel for your injectors, use MLV to dial in fuel, and you'll be most of the way there.

Sorry for spoonfeeding him, gays, but it sounded like he knew not what he was asking exactly.

hey fuckers.. !!! stop beeing assholes..

im doing his setup/tuning, but im a lazy bastard, and beeing more used to autronic, link etc ecus, i told him to search the web and see if he could find something we could use as a startingpoint for the car. just to get this shit started.. I will obviously tune it properly..

getting a "base map" from someone running such a standard setup as the greddy kit and a ms pnp WILL get the car up and running faster than doing everything from zero..

So anyway, he's my tuner..

(And I do know what I was asking for)

oh, and i will not "fuck his shit up".. :)

You've got to be absolutely FUCKING KIDDING. If someone claimed they could tune my car and then proceeded to tell me that, I would assume they were fucking retarded and walk away.


Now, as just.about.every.single.fucking.person. in this thread has said, just download the DIY autotune base map. Adjust the req_fuel for the size of injectors you will be running, and in 99% of cases, the car will fire right up. You will need to adjust the timing, and tune the fuel/ignition maps as they are a bit on the rich/retarded side of things. Other than that, it is ready to go and driveable right from the get-go.

This is all very true.

I would rather do the 15 mins worth of work to load the "safe" base map, change some settings, and adjust my timing, rather than just load any random map from someone else's setup.

1st post would've solved the problem.


^Really? :laugh:

I'm with Jeff. I'll walk away.

Funny this is that the DIY base maps have plenty of fuel up top that my 2870 was still pig rich at 15psi on 5th gear at ~7000

That reply is just so much better.

The tone in the replies here remind me of the good old Linux forums back in the day. Seems the computer geeks have passed the virus on to the car geeks, and now this is the scene for people-with-small-penises-and-hard-youths-who-need-to-flame-someone.
You know, you CAN tell people stuff without being total fucking assholes.

Anywho, we'll see tomorrow. :)

If I had somebody tuning my car that I've spent lots of money and time on I would not let a "lazy" tuner tune it. Sounds like loki needs a real tuner.

But what's the fun in that :). While I can't disagree that the general tone of the forum is.....less than friendly (actually, its akin to being a SWF and walking through an alleyway full of rapists in the middle of the night), keep in mind that most questions are either a. answered in the FAQ/stickies, or b. has been answered 100 times and a simple search can turn it up. It just gets old regurgitating the same shit over and over again...and then being told that we don't know what we're talking about and "I'm just going to do it my way".

Too bad he isn't local. Who's tuning your shit ;).

Hehe, I have every bit of faith in my assistance from Harald.
As you know, the car he's driving now is pretty extreme.

I might even start a project thread about my little pearl white Hello Kitty Turbo Project.

I was nowhere near rude. You just didn't like the answers we posted and then started, and now continue, to act like a little girl.

Not at all.
You weren't, but the rest of the replies were.

As for my reaction.
Consider that I have someone with years of experience sitting by my side and asking for something, and some random dude with a big mouth on thar INTARNETZ tells me he's wrong.
Should I say "ok, I'll let him know" and just leave it at that?

The reason we have forums like this is to get a discussion going, and if I wanted one persons answer I would initiate a DIALOGUE.
But then again, your avatar says it all, so I'll leave it with this. Bedtime now :)

I'll take a moment to say that this forum has a ton of great members, with an amazing amount of knowledge in its threads.

However, like any other forum, it also has a bunch of hang-arounds that pass all their time by posting, and posting, and posting. Everyday, more and more useless, pointless, borderline retarded, garbage, that just gets mixed in with the good stuff.

Sift through it, sort out the good members, and pretend the rest aren't even here. Thats what I do now. Don't get me wrong, even the normal crowd will bust your nuts in a heartbeat, but you should be able to tell the true fucking idiots from the ball breakers pretty easy. ;)

I was an asshole, then? Did you read my reply?

I mean, I even explained to you why it's better just to use the basemap than to apply FM/Hydra logic to MS...

Ok, not everyone :P
Your reply was the one that made me reconsider deleting my account.

But I was left with a bad feeling, and that more or less sums it up.
Pretty sure we're done with this discussion anyway, since we're running with the base map as you said.

Now how cool is that??

You're lucky the rape crew didn't find this on time. You would've cried and sold you Miata for a Geo Metro.

Like I said before, the base maps have plenty of fuel to get you running alright, and then adjust accordingly. If I were you, I would also buy Tunerstudio. Their live VE Analyzer is tits.

What is the cost of it, and what am I looking at in gains?
Does it just make the mapping easier, or does it make it BETTER?

$40. It practically tunes your fuel on its own. You set your targets, go for a drive, and fuel will be adjusted to you AFR. It also makes it better, as it provides more resolution. IIRC you can change 4-5 points within one VE value.

Most of us have it.

Nice. I'll be looking in to it :)
Thank you for the advice, it's stuff like this I'm here for. In addition to male bonding.

Pm me for more bonding :ky: ;)

Is it this product?
Just so I don't go and get the wrong shit :P

http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/

TS doesn't/can't provide more resolution, that's defined by the firmware you're using.

I have no idea what 'changing 4-5 points within 1 VE value' means either, each cell within the VE table can be adjusted from 0 - 255 iirc.

Yes, that's the software, it's very very good.

So, by definition, a nabcake like me can tune my car by hooking this up to the MSPNP through a laptop and take a ride? :)
I find it hard to believe that it can be THAT easy.

Seems I need to read up on some stuff too, since "1 VE value" and "iirc" is greek to me.
Just found out that "iirc" isn't really car related, so thank you for mixing geekspeek into this to confuse me even further :P

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
VE = Volumetric Effeciency, the VE table is the fuel table.

Yeah TS will allow a newb to tune pretty easily. It's not infalliable though, you have to keep you eye on it e.g. 'false' readings from a wideband (i.e. a rich backfire will look like full lean on the guage, so TS will add more fuel compounding the issue) will just cause your tune to go to peices.

Also if your laptop isn't quick enough it might not 'catch' certain areas on the VE table quick enough to tune them particularly for quick stabs of the throttle off idle, these I find tend to have to be tuned manually.

As does everything else i.e. warmup, starting, Acelleration Enrichment etc etc. DIYAutotunes basemaps are a fantastic starting point however.

Yeah, I will be using the basemap from DIY as a foundation for the mapping, and then using TS to adjust it.
Looking at bringing a passenger when mapping, so that he can keep his full attention on the software to ensure misreadings won't affect the tuning.

That's where VE Analyze Live and datalogging in TunerStudio comes into play.

Hrmpf..

I can't seem to find the way to register the TS trial. Do I have to send an e-mail to them?
I can use the trial version, but I assume I'm a lot better off with the full version.

What I meant by adjusting 4-5 point withing one value is that in Megatune if an x fuel cell value is set at 45, and you add fuel, you jump to 46. In TS if you're at 45 or any given point at that, you can in some sort change a decimal value i.e 45.2, 45.4, 45.6... and so fort.

Ahh, nice. Now I'm on track ^^

Thats nothing to do with the tuning software, if you can do it in TunerStudio, you can do it in Megatune.

The VE tables are defined by the firmware, it's impossible to 'gain' more resolution purely through the software. The hardware (sic memory on the MegaSquirt), would have to support it.

See here:

http://www.msextra.com/feature-xref.html

So for MS1 and MS2 you can use decimal points in the igition table. However for fuel only MSIII can use points of a VE.

If TS is letting you do this in the VE table for MS1/2, it's a bug in the software and it won't actually doing it at all.

She didn't start btw.. So I just hope I'll need this info tomorrow when the battery is recharged. Hopefully I just lacked the power to ignite.

Loaded a basemap, and I have TS ready for action once she's on the road.

Ignition timing was 20 degrees off. No wonder she didn't start..
And the freakin' magnecore's make the ignition reading a nightmare, so note to self: Have OEM ingition leads next time.

She's off the support now and ready for IC and exhaust, so hopefully the tuning will start within a day or two.
Let me know if you have any other last minute tips for me :)

(..like where to fit the IC piping between the radiator fan and the power steering. By GOD it's tight down there..)