MS1 or MS2 on a 90-93?
 

Friend of mine asked me to build a MS for his 90-93. There's a pretty standard begi kit on it, no boost control or anything.
I was thinking of getting a MS1 or would there be advantages on using MS2?

For an NA, and especially a 1.6, the featureset differences are fairly small. The MS2 does offer a higher resolution in the fuel calculation, which can be helpful if you plan to pass an emissions test while running larger-than-stock injectors.

Its mode advances features will not be of much use to you. Running fully-sequential injector drive, for instance, would be great for a '94+ car. On your friend's '90-'93, he'd need to run a whole new fuel injection harness to take advantage of that.

The MS1, while not sexy and new, gets the job done.

I currently have a 90 miata with ms2 up and running. It was alot of extra research for the 90-93 because most people just use the ms1 on those years. I had to take what was already figured out 100% for the ms1 and try to adapt it to the ms2. But if you do need to know how to install a ms2 let me know.

Sorry to disagree wtih Joe, but I feel that MS2 does offer enough differences in featureset and resolution to make it a worthwhile upgrade. I did not feel this way before I played with the software. As a bonus, it is a cheap upgrade (less than $100).

You don't have to run a 'whole new harness' for full sequential fueling; you just need to run 2 additional wires. This is worth 1-2 mpg. And you can still run seq spark too, which is awesome for when you go to better coils.

You should do a little write-up.

you mean like this:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2


it can also be found here: http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_4g63.htm

Yes, like that. Easy enough.

From that I took the DIYPNP basemap for the 1.8L (2.1.1b) and scaled the req_fuel and made other small changes.

I'll have my own MS upgraded by the end of the week, I have a board modded and my MSI msq converted, I just need to acquire the CPU this week. I'm still going to run parallel because I'm too lazy to build a standalone harness...well, i just ran out of 64-pin connectors and don't feel like ordering any. But really, I'm just letting the OEM ECU run idle, so whatever.

If you notice on my pictures I decided to use the traditional 2nd trigger input like we do on the MSI boards, not the optisolator circuit. You will also notice I put the .1uF cap on the daughterboard itself. There is an inline 1K current limiting resistor on the board (D9), so the cap needs to be after it. But both trigger inputs are simply 470ohm pulls-ups for each trigger.

Cool. I tried to attach my .msq here, but I am short on storage space (already 20mb over limit). Think you could increase my limit?

PS, I just gave away (2) extra 64 pin headers that I got from online components to fluff out their minimum order requirements. Sorry, you should have said something a few days ago.

did that work?

It's okay, I'll order some when I build another MS for someone. I just hate to order a min of 5 connectors and spend $40 just to sit on them for a while, I usually order 10 or so when I run out. I really have no problems with my parallel setup otherwise. I do want to mod it to run the fuel pump ground back through the AFM harness through something and then jump the connector back to the relay.

Yes, thank you.

whoops, i need to d/l 3.0a

edit: sweet, i love seeing the 16x16 fuel maps... i plan on keeping the same amount of boost rows i have now, and get the added resolution in the cruising cells where it's finicky now.

I went with MS2 on my '90 for sequential fuel and more I/O. If you're only going to build it like the MS1, it'll still give more resolution in the fuel calculations, but you're not really taking full advantage of the CPU. If he doesn't plan on upgrading anything and not using EBC or PWM idle, then it may not be worth the extra $90, but if you or he adds some of the extra goodies, it is.

What I have is:
sequential injection using the peak and hold driver board
wasted spark
2nd trigger input
closed loop PWM idle with upconverter board
fan control
knock sensing
baro correction
launch control
closed loop EBC
table switching off WI switch

I really don't feel like rewiring the injector harness for sequential injection, maybe down the road if I feel like another project. Otherwise I mainly wanted to upgrade for the EBC code.

Regardless, the CPU speed in itself should prove better on it's own. 16-bit 24Mhz vs. 8-bit 8 Mhz CPU, 100 times more fuel resolution, potential MSIII upgrade, can read up to 257*F, etc...

sorry im an MS noob... can ms1 be made to run sequential or as that a no-go

No, mainly because there are no spare outputs.

Is that my MSII brain?

correct. It's in the mail btw.

what's the cap for? First time I see it mentioned.

Filters the 2nd trigger, needed with particular input, especially when we were running MS-I/HR, I believe the optisolator circuit uses a .01uF filter. The absence of this cap is part of what delayed the MSPNP9697 from getting on the market.

Scott.
How looks you MS with the inverted settings and the MS-2 modification?

If you mean Joe's improved ignition out it's fine.

I'd reccomend MSII over MS1 from now on. With sequential it's even better.

a mean, a picture please. I have the ecu And I plan to do both modifications. (MS1 to MS2 and "no more pops mod!")

Tanx.!

did you look on the first page? I posted the required mods. I had to swap spark A and Spark B however (Not shown in my writeup or pictures below).


here's mine:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

I've only just got my MS-1 running well enough to the standard where Im now re-enjoying the car and daily driving it again! :doh:

tanks scott. !

(but I have shop againt the cap. I buy a 1 uF instead 0.1 uF). :S

FWIW my car required the cap on a MS1 setup but on MS2 wouldn't rev past 3.5k removal of the cap solved the revving problem

In short try without first :)

My issue right now it my battery in my laptop sucks, so I need a power inverter to actually go out and fool around with my MSII unit.

But so far it's driving and idling very smooth. this new VE Live feature in TS doesn't hurt either.

what firmware do you recomend?

im running 2.1.1b but 3.0.x is out now so I dont see any reason not to go with the newest unless there are known bugs.

Unless you're running sequential injection I'd stick with the 2xxx series until 3xxxx comes out of Beta IMO.

2xxxx and 3xxxx are identical the difference is which will run sequential injection/ignition.

3.0.3q is rock solid for me. I use it on my daily driver with absolutely no problems.

Jim

Thread jack.

I notice you built the actual circuit for launch control. From what i've read isn't that unnecessary? Cant you just run a straight wire from JS11?

Also, mind splainin the dual map sensor?

launch is on JS7...you fail!


FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU

Ah, well that explains it then.

Still wondering about that second map sensor...

it's for constant barometric correction, it's in the manual ;)

but it doesn't work properly, so ignore the 2nd sensor

yeah I have the corrections completely zeroed out right now anyways.

ok I did the sprark inverted mos and the car runs fine (no pop at least.!!!)

Attachment 201014

Attachment 201015

I used the megastim to change to spark inverted, the car start and everything runs fine.

Then I modify the board to install MS-2 but now i can't connect the MS to the computer to install the firmware.

What I'm doing wrong?

Attachment 201016
(by the way, I remove the "floating" resistance after the photo)

Attachment 201017

Please help!

I check scott's board and ad a wire between IAC1A and JS7. but noting happend. no ligths in mega stim or MS and no comunication to the laptop.

Attachment 201011

:confused:

definetlly is a problem with power.

I try to put Ms-I just if I see a ligth, but nothing.
I plug the MS-II to the car to discard megastim problem, but nothing.

no comnication with MS donwloader or manual dowloader (no response or time out error)

Anyone have any idea what I miss or destroy when I did the mods for the Ms-II?

I did and fan mod, and EVC (from the post "How To Make and Install Your Own DIY Megasquirt" but not used them yet).

could be one of this mods incompatible with Ms-II?

Try testing the right leg of the 5V regulator (2940) for power (it should be within the 4.95-5.05V range).

Jim

do they not sell 22 gauge wire in Chile?


you still have some MSI mods mixed in....see the 5v pull-up.

hahaha, they do, but I pick the first wire that I find in my home. works for more than a year. now i have the correct wire i can't make the car start. :vash:

I have al mods because I only applied the mods that you post in the picture of page 1. nothing else was changed or removed.

i will revome the pull-up, EBC, fan mod an see what happens. Also, I will check the regulator voltage.

:vash:x100!
try this
Attachment 200972

but noting.

I start to thinking that my MS is with M.J. rigth now...:sadwavey:

any idea?

I check the first steps of the MS asssebly guide.
When I made the instalation I get 5V from the first test (step 23)
Instead of that today I Get only 0,31V of al combinations!:facepalm:

Also I discovered that my ac/dc adaptor give me a steady 17,6V IN ANY of the selected voltages (3-4-5-6-7.5-9 and 12). :crx:

I will get a new 9V batery or adapter tomorrow.

what firmware did you load and what basemap? are you syncing? do you have a stim? Did you remove the jumpers at D1 and D2? Did you RTFM?

- I can't load anything. I can't connect to the MS.
- I try to load "ms2extra_2.1.0_release"
- I plan to use my actual map from MS-I, (tuned and working) and adding some interpolated colums and rows in the middle (for fuel and spark).

- Nop

- Yes. Don´t work very well (some pots are noisy or not working) but works. Last time worked well when I set inverted spark, 2 days ago. Not working after installing MS-II

- Have to check my board, but I don't think so. -> FAIL

- When I build the megasquirt, yes (no problem).
- To make mod's for miata, I read your post (no problem).
- To invert Sparks, I read Joe Perez post (no problem).
- To jump to MS-II, I only read this post and did exactly the mod's that you suggest on the photos. Nothing more, nothing less. -> FAIL.

you need to connect and load the firmwares, unless you somehow blew out a circuit, the mods wont matter for connectivity.

OMG I'm a F****NG :noob:!

I remove D1 and D2 and now I have comunication again! (also ligths in stim and MS) :laugh:

some problems to load firmware, but at least my CPU is doing something.

Again, thanks scott!

edit: Firmware Loaded!!

Have you supplied the MSII with 12v? If not non of your IAC outputs will work.

Isn't the 12v supply only to power a 4-wire stepper motor type IAC valve? I saw no reason why I needed to add it myself. Step #22 in the megamanual suggests it's optional.

It is mandatory if you want to use the IAC1 and IAC2 outputs, ie for fan control.

Jim

I'm using the warmup LED for fan, but good to know.

Braineack,

Can you post your basemap (*.msq)?, please?

:loser: More than a month with the car parked. Miss one track day.
I have other T.D. next week.

Attachment 199931

I think that I have all the connections rigth and maybe the problem is the configuration of the msq file.

I have only two or 3 weeks with sun (summer here) to enjoy my car. If I can´t start the car tomorrow I will come back to the good old MS-I and maybe I try again in winter. I have other track day next week and I can't fail again, so Please help.!

Any one with 96-97 MS-II working msq, or any idea that what is my problem?

well, I had to roll back to MS-I, to use the car. When I remove the mods i realized that I didn't remove all the MS-I mods. Car is runing fine until now.

... Almost two year later, I have one week free to give it a new try.

going to go shooting in the dark, or do you know what youre doing this time?